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  1. #133
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?



    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Who said they were crooked money hungry scumbags?



    Yes, when they see guys who were previously in their prime and well under 30 getting big dollars who are now past their prime and well over 30 not getting big dollars, something must be up, like collusion!

    I know if I was an agent and my client was asking me why he can't get the big dollars like X, I would be happy to tell him, "collusion", instead of, you're old, you're past your prime, your skills are diminished and you got burnt every other play last year.



    That's not really not comparable, but yes, I would want to know why. It would likely be that someone else has a better product or at least a better value.

    i'm sure that's every agents excuse.




  2. #134

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Concern =/= Evidence

    Correlation =/= Causation
    This stuff now is the tip of the iceberg. It is in the early early stages.

    Maybe it turns out to be nothing. Maybe it turns out to be something.

    I started this thread almost a month ago in early free agency and the core issue of my suspicions is gradually being validated by people in the industry.

    Yet I continue to catch heat daily as if I was way off base in my original thoughts.

    Aaron Wilson has inside sources. He posts reliable news. Weeks ago he posted about agents and the "c" word. I don't see anyone busting his balls. Now just yesterday we see clear action by the NFLPA. And yet people dismiss it, instead of viewing it as another piece of support of the original premise of the thread. Another piece of the puzzle.

    It reminds me of when that random dude started a thread about Suggs blowing out his Achilles way before any media outlet and everyone called BS. Then BAM!...it was true. Anyone else remember that thread here? The guy was ridiculed. Until it was shown he was right.
    Last edited by bt12483; 04-04-2013 at 10:01 AM.




  3. #135
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    Clayton,NC
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    ZING! Wow. That hurt. Good one.
    Zing? No joke there, just my observation after reading this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    What exactly have you contributed to this topic again?
    Bout as much as you have, nothing really.

    Just bored on slow work day, and getting a rise out of watching you trying to defend the indefensible.

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    I might suggest you study the history of sports leagues and antitrust. it is pretty long so you should get started ASAP so you can catch up and comprehend the issues.
    Why would I spend my time doing that, just because agents have no other reason than to tell their d-lineman clients, you play the wrong side of the ball for a big contract?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  4. #136
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Houston, TX Y'all
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    21,632
    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    This stuff now is the tip of the iceberg. It is in the early early stages.

    Maybe it turns out to be nothing. Maybe it turns out to be something.

    I started this thread a month ago in early free agency and the core issue of my suspicions is continually being validated by people in the industry.

    Yet I continue to catch heat daily as if I was way off base in my original thoughts.

    Aaron Wilson has inside sources. He posts reliable news. Weeks ago he posted about agents and the "c" word. I don't see anyone busting his balls. Now just yesterday we see clear action by the NFLPA. And yet people dismiss it, instead of viewing it as another rung of the original premise of the thread. Another piece of the puzzle.
    I have not read through the whole thread but if the last few pages are an example of the "heat" you've been getting, I think it's more from you passing conjecture and bias agent rhetoric off as evidence.

    Agents (and the union) love to use the word collusion. A successful collusion claim would mean more money in their pocket so their bias, inherently, is against the league in terms of contract matters.

    Just because an agent got a reporter (who is affiliated in a union himself) to reprint a collusion speculation is light years away from proof it exists or tangible evidence.

    By your own admission, this is the tip of the iceberg. By definition then, there's speculation and nothing else at this point.

    But I agree with GOTA. It's a worthwhile debate. But if past threads about the CBA and the players union are a guide, you're not going to find many who agree with you.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  5. #137
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Aaron Wilson has inside sources. He posts reliable news. Weeks ago he posted about agents and the "c" word. I don't see anyone busting his balls. Now just yesterday we see clear action by the NFLPA. And yet people dismiss it, instead of viewing it as another piece of support of the original premise of the thread. Another piece of the puzzle.
    Okay, in all seriousness, this is why I started to comment on this thread. Aaron Wilson's sources about the Ravens or players moves do not validate what D. Smith is saying simply because Aaron tweeted D. Smith is suspicious.

    The two have nothing to do with each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    It reminds me of when that random dude started a thread about Suggs blowing out his Achilles way before any media outlet and everyone called BS. Then BAM!...it was true.
    A bit of a stretch, just a bit.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  6. #138
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Baltimore
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    363

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    i haven't seen anyone directly attack you, you're just getting super defensive because not many believe what amounts to nothing but lots and lots of repeated speculation from a couple of agents (who would obviously benefit greatly if collusion were able to be proven) and a credible sports writer who said what amounts to, 'yea i heard this from this guy,'. not damning evidence by any stretch. i personally think the story could grow some legs at some point, if only because i'm a paranoid bastard and when a group of rich and powerful people with common interests (i.e., owners) could have a chance to get together and increase both their power and wealth within their realm the chances are pretty good they'd at least think about it. at this stage though? it's gonna take more than an agent and a sports writer in able for someone to claim, 'validation'.




  7. #139

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Bout as much as you have, nothing really.
    Follow the chronology of the thread.

    On 3/14 I suspected collusion.

    On 3/18 Aaron Wilson first posted about suspected collusion.

    On 3/28 I heard agent Tony Agnone complain about collusion.

    On 4/3 the NFLPA issues a letter asking agents to divulge info re: collusion.

    I mentioned this idea of collusion before the media ever came out with it.

    Yet I've added nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Why would I spend my time doing that, just because agents have no other reason than to tell their d-lineman clients, you play the wrong side of the ball for a big contract?
    Your lack of knowledge on the topic hinders your understanding. I is not so simple.




  8. #140
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Follow the chronology of the thread.

    On 3/14 I suspected collusion.

    On 3/18 Aaron Wilson first posted about suspected collusion.

    On 3/28 I heard agent Tony Agnone complain about collusion.

    On 4/3 the NFLPA issues a letter asking agents to divulge info re: collusion.

    I mentioned this idea of collusion before the media ever came out with it.

    Yet I've added nothing.
    If you think that is evidence, you're in for a very short career as a lawyer.

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Your lack of knowledge on the topic hinders your understanding. I is not so simple.
    Please tell me how you know what I know about this topic?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  9. #141

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Okay, in all seriousness, this is why I started to comment on this thread. Aaron Wilson's sources about the Ravens or players moves do not validate what D. Smith is saying simply because Aaron tweeted D. Smith is suspicious.

    The two have nothing to do with each other.
    Aaron Wilson:
    Lot of agents using C word, collusion, when discussing free agency patterns and trends. Very tough to prove, and it's a buyers' market
    7:54 AM - 18 Mar 13

    4/3:
    NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith has told agents that the union has “heard reports of a concern that teams are working in concert” to “set” player compensation, NFL Network’s Albert Breer reported Wednesday.


    No. Nothing to do with each other at all...

    If you fucking paid attention you would see the Aaron Wilson tweet predated the comments from D Smith by WEEKS.




  10. #142

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    If you think that is evidence, you're in for a very short career as a lawyer.
    I bet.

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Please tell me how you know what I know about this topic?
    Your stupid posts?




  11. #143
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Your stupid posts?
    That have said what specifically about collusion or antitrust?

    Please be specific..
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  12. #144

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    I bet.

    Your stupid posts?
    So much for playing the "taking shit" card.

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    And I've contributed waaaaaaaaaaaay more support to the validity of my side than you have to yours.
    Keep telling yourself that. Quoting a bunch of people who say "hey, I wonder if there's any collusion going on", or posting that a union guy says he's had "reports of a concern" (that's priceless) aren't much of a contribution. And posting a reporter's quote of something you've already posted doesn't mean it counts twice.

    Look, you want to do something useful? Look at the top salaries last year for FA's and players who were entering the last year of their contract and signed an extension. Leave out players who reworked to reduce their cap hit. Then do the same for this year, and post both sets of numbers.

    Frankly, spouting conspiracy theories while being too lazy to do any analysis is a really bad sign, whether you're going to be a lawyer or any other kind of professional.
    I've upped my standards. Up yours.




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