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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    So now gay people are attacked with water hoses, lynched, have ferocious dogs set on them, and banned from eating in certain restaurants?

    That maybe the single biggest piece of bullshit I've ever read on here, and I remember Galin.

    The only argument gay people have is the right to marry, and I promise that one would go away if they'd just compromise and argue for Civil Unions.
    Galen also had an uncanny ability to attack strawmen... Just like your doing right now.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt





  2. #62

    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    It is embarrassing when people attempt to equate the gay rights "struggle" with the Civil Rights struggle. It is hard to take such people seriously, to be honest.




  3. #63

    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    I guess you're unfamiliar with the dozens of anti gay hate crimes that get reported every month across the country including a couple of lynchings. (Matthew Shepard for example.) Or the epidemic of suicides (Google the Trevor Project) caused in no small part by the shame of bullying and the pain of being forced to live a lie to avoid said hate crimes.

    And hey, those no one was stopping those negroes from drinking in water fountains or sitting on buses either, they just had to know their place.
    Nope, not unfamiliar with 'em. Just like I'm not unfamiliar with the other suicides that have nothing to do with being gay. I'm also aware of the hundreds of crimes committed daily against straight people. Anybody who would harass another person to the point of suicide is a psychopath. They are going to latch onto anything they can to torture someone, whether it's being gay, or being fat, or being smart, anything different will suffice. I haven't done the research, mostly because it's boring as hell, but I'm willing to bet the most of the perpetrators in those gay lynchings have a criminal past, one littered with violence. A sane person does not suddenly go, "Hey, that person is a homosexual. KILL IT!"

    What you, and others, are doing is ignoring an important part of the equation. Let's take the phrase, "He was bullied because..." You would finish that statement, "He was bullied because he was gay." I would finish the statement, "He was bullied because the bully is an asshole." In your statement gay can be replaced with anything humans do or are. They're white, black, nerds, jocks, fat, skinny, etc... My statement will always stay the same, and will always be true.

    Maybe it's just different down here, and by that I mean it is very different down here. One of my friends is a black lesbian. She told me that when she lived up north, she dealt with discrimination fairly often. Since she's moved down here, she hasn't dealt with it once. Maybe it's because southerners tend to be raised more respectful, or because we're generally laid back about things until it affects our loved ones. Who knows, but it's nice to see we're not the bigoted part of the country anymore.

    EDIT: I forgot about this. I asked one of my buddies tonight how a NFL player coming out would affect his life. His response was, "Hell yeah. I need a sugar daddy."
    Last edited by darb72; 04-07-2013 at 04:09 AM.
    This is a novel I was asked to proofread. The author is giving 10% of the profits to kidney research, which is a big deal in the Darb household. Fair warning; it's a fantasy novel, and the main characters are lesbians. It's three bucks on kindle from Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/WINDOWS-BROKEN...ken+fairy+tale




  4. #64
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    You may have a point there darb, but I do see a lot of people who, on the surface, act like very kind, caring people, but underneath, have some deep seeded homophobia. We were having dinner with my in-laws (I knew this about them prior), but in telling a story, she mentioned that a friend of hers made comments that alluded to the friend having lesbian/bisexual tendencies and followed it up with "if I had known that, probably wouldn't have stayed with her that weekend last year". My wife commented that most gay people usually know the boundaries and won't try to do anything with someone they know isn't interested, much like the people who are not sexual predators among straight people, and my MIL's response was that most lesbians she's known seemed "out to get her" and remembered one putting a hand on her knee and how she wanted to smack it away. And then continued talking about closeted lesbians and how they act in her mind...

    Long story short...my in-laws and I don't get along due to the Redskins/Ravens stuff, but other than that, they are pretty caring people on the surface. Hell, even with the Redskins/Ravens thing, they've given me most of my Ravens stuff in my collection. But even though they don't appear to be assholes, they do have some questionable thoughts about LGBT people. I think it's kind've a combination of both...I think even still in this country, there is a bit of racism present towards African-Americans. Not as much as in the 1950s/1960s, but it remains in some families due to upbringing. Some parents who are still discriminatory are going to raise their kids discriminatory. I saw it in my grandparents. They weren't very open about it, but now and again, it came out. And they raised my aunt the same way. My mother was a little more "liberal" than they were (and also didn't live with them all her life like my aunt did), so I think I escaped that pattern a bit, but I do believe to an extent, discrimination has to be "bred out" of the generation. In that, with future generations and future established tolerance in society, kids will start questioning people who ARE discriminatory more and more.

    With homosexuality in NFL players...it comes down to one thing for me. Would NFL locker rooms accept a gay player without any resentment, public or private. And that part there, public or private, is truly the 64000 dollar question. A lot of players publically want to appear like they are okay with it, so if someone asked them in an interview, would you be okay with this?, they'd answer yeah, sure! But just like my in-laws (Who constantly comment that people coming out are okay and "there's nothing wrong with that"), I think if they were presented with a REAL case of someone close to them ending up being gay, it puts them in a new situation and they may not act the same way.

    I think publically, a lot of NFL players will say they would be okay with it. But I think that deep seeded, below the surface fear is still there. That is why I think these players may choose to make it a big deal to come out. They want fraternity, where there may not be the same fraternity in their own clubhouse.
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  5. #65
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Scally - I think what you just said could be replaced with anything darb posted, not just being gay.

    Not everybody is going to like everything about everybody else, but as long as they keep it to themselves or "below the surface" that's about as good as this world is gonna get.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Scally - I think what you just said could be replaced with anything darb posted, not just being gay.

    Not everybody is going to like everything about everybody else, but as long as they keep it to themselves or "below the surface" that's about as good as this world is gonna get.
    If being straight was a taboo, would you be ok with keeping having a wife below the surface? Scratch that, you don't get a wife. Just a partner who isn't allowed to visit you in the hospital or be on your health insurance, or adopt and raise children with you, or receive any benefits that other couples receive in taxes, oh and you risk harassment and degradation for being affectionate in public for not having the decency not to shove your sexuality in other people's faces.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  7. #67
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    Just because the gay community hasn't experienced the volume of violence and discrimination as other groups in the past, doesn't make the comparison any less accurate.

    At the root of both is hatred and discrimination trying to be overcome.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #68
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    Here's a sick fact for people minimizing the impact of anti gay attitudes that are strongly prevalent in this country (especially in the Bible Belt, despite darb's unawareness of it).

    The Suicide Prevention Resource Center estimated that between 30 and 40% of LGBT youth, depending on age and sex groups, have attempted suicide.

    Between 30 and 40 fucking percent.

    Further, studies have indicated that suicide, drug abuse, and depression all show statistical upticks in areas that pass laws against the rights of homosexuals such as Constitutional Amendments banning gay marriage.

    Imagine the kind of pressure that these kids are under to drive numbers like that.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  9. #69

    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Here's a sick fact for people minimizing the impact of anti gay attitudes that are strongly prevalent in this country (especially in the Bible Belt, despite darb's unawareness of it).

    The Suicide Prevention Resource Center estimated that between 30 and 40% of LGBT youth, depending on age and sex groups, have attempted suicide.

    Between 30 and 40 fucking percent.

    Further, studies have indicated that suicide, drug abuse, and depression all show statistical upticks in areas that pass laws against the rights of homosexuals such as Constitutional Amendments banning gay marriage.

    Imagine the kind of pressure that these kids are under to drive numbers like that.
    Flawed agenda-driven pseudoscience isn't "fact."


    http://www.livescience.com/8734-gay-...-epidemic.html




  10. #70
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    You're debunking a claim I didn't make. I didn't claim that 1/3rd of teen suicide victims were gay, I said that 30-40% of teens who are gay will attempt suicide.

    Here's the study, please actually read it before skimming something and arguing against a point that no one has made. If you're going to call me wrong, I'd appreciate it if you at least took the time to understand what I was claiming before you did it. The study I'm quoting actually addresses the myth your link debunks and agrees with you that it is an inaccurate statistic.

    http://www.sprc.org/sites/sprc.org/f...LGBT_Youth.pdf
    Last edited by ActualSpamBot; 04-07-2013 at 10:03 AM.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  11. #71

    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    You're debunking a claim I didn't make. I didn't claim that 1/3rd of teen suicide victims were gay, I said that 30-40% of teens who are gay will attempt suicide.

    Here's the study, please actually read it before skimming something and arguing against a point that no one has made. If you're going to call me wrong, I'd appreciate it if you at least took the time to understand what I was claiming before you did it.

    http://www.sprc.org/sites/sprc.org/f...LGBT_Youth.pdf
    I understand fully what you are saying. You are misunderstanding or ignoring what I am saying. Which is that when you combine political agendas with flawed scientific studies you get things that are not "facts."

    I gave you one example. And the reasons contained in the link I gave apply universally to almost all the studies on this subject. In fact, the link I provided had this to say about your very claim:

    "The net effect is that conclusions about suicide risk among sexual-minority youths are based not on same-sex attractions but on self-identification [and] researchers who rely solely on gay-identified youths might be omitting significant, more diverse and representative populations of youths with same-sex attractions." The study concluded that "the assertion that sexual-minority youths as a class of individuals are at increased risk for suicide is not warranted."
    I can give you others, but you really should read your own link. It lists the results of many similarly-flawed or unscientific studies, and then admits the flaws and limitations of any conclusions. It also provides the compelling counterpoints that address the limitations.

    I would quote from your source, but it would be easier if you read this section:

    Limitations of the Data on Suicide Attempts Among LGB Youth


    And these rates, even if in the ballpark (which isn't a given), are roughly 2 times higher than the "norm". Such is the ratio in studies of overweight youth, physically unattractive youth, youth on drugs, youth that have spent any amount of time being homeless, etc. In other words, the linkage to some kind of totally unique level of persecution doesn't exist in any of the studies.
    Last edited by Haloti92; 04-07-2013 at 10:35 AM.




  12. #72
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    If being straight was a taboo, would you be ok with keeping having a wife below the surface? Scratch that, you don't get a wife. Just a partner who isn't allowed to visit you in the hospital or be on your health insurance, or adopt and raise children with you, or receive any benefits that other couples receive in taxes, oh and you risk harassment and degradation for being affectionate in public for not having the decency not to shove your sexuality in other people's faces.

    Sorry, you're barking up the wrong tree on this one. I really don't get how that relates to what I said. I said nothing, absolutely nothing about marriage or what the laws are about marriage or partnerships (as a matter of fact I think you and I agree on that if memory serves me correctly).
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




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