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  1. #13

    Re: Latest Pro Football Central mock: Ravens get Arthur Brown



    Quote Originally Posted by arnie_uk View Post
    I really still can't even grasp how you rank brown so low, still can't get my head around it, now your even saying he's not as good as minter. Have you just watched that one Oregon game?
    I've watched 7 games worth of tape on Brown and my evaluation isn't changing because you don't agree with it. Doesn't mean I'm right, obviously you've watched more of Brown than I have, but you've said that you haven't even watched ANY tape of Alec Ogletree... who else haven't you watched? Have you even watched Minter's tape? If you've watched everyone's tape and you just like Arthur Brown the best, fine, but that's not the sense I get from you. Every post on these threads is just you banging the table for a handful of guys since day 1 with no justification or explanation.

    Prospect rankings are relative, not absolute. I evaluate Arthur Brown relative to the other players in his class both at his position and overall. I didn't say Minter was better than Brown, I think they're probably about equal overall. They just don't do the same things well--Minter is far more physical and tough, Brown is faster. Minter is technically more advanced than Brown and more ready to play 3-4 ILB right out of the gate. I think Brown is going to have a tough learning curve when he can't be totally reliant on his athleticism to make up for missteps (although FWIW, Alec Ogletree has the exact same issue.)

    I've given solid, concrete reasons for my evaluation, and I've seen at least 6+ games worth of tape on all my top ILB prospects in the class. Arthur Brown is a good player, and I think he has nice potential for the NFL, but he's not a good fit for a pure 3-4 team and at any position other than 4-3 WILL he's going to have a learning curve in the NFL. That doesn't mean he sucks, he could EASILY turn out to be the top non-pass rushing LB from this class in 5 years, but how he's used and how he develops is going to be the difference with him.




  2. #14
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    Re: Latest Pro Football Central mock: Ravens get Arthur Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I've watched 7 games worth of tape on Brown and my evaluation isn't changing because you don't agree with it. Doesn't mean I'm right, obviously you've watched more of Brown than I have, but you've said that you haven't even watched ANY tape of Alec Ogletree... who else haven't you watched? Have you even watched Minter's tape? If you've watched everyone's tape and you just like Arthur Brown the best, fine, but that's not the sense I get from you. Every post on these threads is just you banging the table for a handful of guys since day 1 with no justification or explanation.

    Prospect rankings are relative, not absolute. I evaluate Arthur Brown relative to the other players in his class both at his position and overall. I didn't say Minter was better than Brown, I think they're probably about equal overall. They just don't do the same things well--Minter is far more physical and tough, Brown is faster. Minter is technically more advanced than Brown and more ready to play 3-4 ILB right out of the gate. I think Brown is going to have a tough learning curve when he can't be totally reliant on his athleticism to make up for missteps (although FWIW, Alec Ogletree has the exact same issue.)

    I've given solid, concrete reasons for my evaluation, and I've seen at least 6+ games worth of tape on all my top ILB prospects in the class. Arthur Brown is a good player, and I think he has nice potential for the NFL, but he's not a good fit for a pure 3-4 team and at any position other than 4-3 WILL he's going to have a learning curve in the NFL. That doesn't mean he sucks, he could EASILY turn out to be the top non-pass rushing LB from this class in 5 years, but how he's used and how he develops is going to be the difference with him.
    I wasnt having a go at you, I'm just in shock how two people can watch the same tape and come away with contrasting opinions, wasnt a slight at you in anyway.

    I have watched minter and he does quite a few things well but nothing great or amazing for me to make me want him in the first. I think he will only be average and with the first round pick I want someone who does something to an elite level, much like how you described the wideout scenario. Arthur brown will be an elite pass defender from MLB. Teo has elite instincts and that outs him above minter for me. Greene again I think will be a very very good pass defender in this league but not quite the run defender I think brown will be, so again I have him ahead of minter who just seems like a jack of all trades master of none type.

    And no I haven't watched ogletree and hence why I don't comment on him.

    And the reason I don't go into big long posts summarising what I've seen is because I post from mobile and this site is horrible on the phone, I hate writing long posts, this one write here is as long as you'll get from me on this site. I feel saying I like such and such is enough. Til all be worthless anyway because 9 times out of 10 the players we think they should draft aren't the picks they make come draft day. I don't have the time or patience to write detailed evaluations of what I see and think.

    I like plenty of players, dislike a lot more, then I have some that I've fallen in love with, forgive me for keep going on about them, I didnt know my football knowledge was being judged by the length of my posts.




  3. #15

    Re: Latest Pro Football Central mock: Ravens get Arthur Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by arnie_uk View Post
    I wasnt having a go at you, I'm just in shock how two people can watch the same tape and come away with contrasting opinions, wasnt a slight at you in anyway.

    I have watched minter and he does quite a few things well but nothing great or amazing for me to make me want him in the first. I think he will only be average and with the first round pick I want someone who does something to an elite level, much like how you described the wideout scenario. Arthur brown will be an elite pass defender from MLB. Teo has elite instincts and that outs him above minter for me. Greene again I think will be a very very good pass defender in this league but not quite the run defender I think brown will be, so again I have him ahead of minter who just seems like a jack of all trades master of none type.

    And no I haven't watched ogletree and hence why I don't comment on him.

    And the reason I don't go into big long posts summarising what I've seen is because I post from mobile and this site is horrible on the phone, I hate writing long posts, this one write here is as long as you'll get from me on this site. I feel saying I like such and such is enough. Til all be worthless anyway because 9 times out of 10 the players we think they should draft aren't the picks they make come draft day. I don't have the time or patience to write detailed evaluations of what I see and think.

    I like plenty of players, dislike a lot more, then I have some that I've fallen in love with, forgive me for keep going on about them, I didnt know my football knowledge was being judged by the length of my posts.
    Hey, I wasn't having a go at you either, nor do I judge your football knowledge from the length of your posts. I was just under the impression that you hadn't really compared Brown's tape to other prospects, but you've clarified that and now I know I was wrong in that respect.

    I actually agree with a lot of your evaluations, clearly your football knowledge is not at all in question. I agree that Minter is not really worth a first round pick. I also agree that Brown has the potential to be a great pass defending ILB, and if the Ravens draft him I think he would start out as a nickel-type MLB until he develops his instincts and physicality between the tackles. I still think he's better as a 4-3 WILL but like Minter I would take him in the 2nd if I were the Ravens although he won't be there at #62.

    I agree that Te'o's instincts are at the top of the class. I do think Greene is a very good run defender, you might be underrating him a bit in that aspect, and honestly the way you are with Arthur Brown, I probably am that way with Khaseem Greene. He is one of "my guys" and I love how he just makes plays. That's another thing I just haven't really seen out of Arthur Brown--zero career forced fumbles, zero career fumble recoveries, etc. although as I've said in other posts the Kansas State defense mostly asked Brown to stay back and read and react rather than make plays, so that's not totally his fault. I just wish he was more physical and had a better nose for the ball.

    Honestly I would be very happy if the Ravens drafted ANY of Te'o, Brown, Minter, Greene, or Sio Moore, I just don't really think the Ravens should spend a 1st rounder on any of them, nor do I think other teams will. I think one of those guys will be available deep in the 2nd even if it requires a small trade up and that's what I'd like to see happen. There are also numerous later-round prospects I like a lot at ILB like Steve Beauharnais, AJ Klein, and Keith Pough.




  4. #16
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    Re: Latest Pro Football Central mock: Ravens get Arthur Brown

    Greene was defiantly a bigger play maker, he was making plays everywhere. I just seen a lot of running around a blocker rather than taking him on and beating him. Maybe that's a sign of good instincts and angles knowing he didn't have to take the blocker on, but im not sure how well that will translate. I love Greene and I concede he's probably better value in the second that brown in the first, but I don't think Greene will be there.

    Alonso could be the one to watch in the third.




  5. #17

    Re: Latest Pro Football Central mock: Ravens get Arthur Brown

    Finding out the Ravens view on these LB's will be one of the most intriguing things of this draft imo. We know they'll take at least one, we all have our preferences and different things we value, cant wait to see how they address the position.




  6. #18
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    Re: Latest Pro Football Central mock: Ravens get Arthur Brown

    FWIW, Peter King says the Ravens will take Arthur Brown.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/-nf...ft-peter-king/

    Looking at his mock I see a couple of things:

    - First this is a pretty safe mock with the WR picks/Terrance Williams (see below) being the biggest exception. But no trades are projected so this is ultimately off base.

    - A real run on WR's: Austin, Hunter, Patterson, Allen, Hopkins, and Terrance Williams are all picked before 32. Wow. Don't think I've seen all of those WR's picked in round 1 of any mock before this one. Plus Eifert is taken also. But not Robert Woods.

    - Just one QB taken- Geno to...wait for it!...Cleveland. I can just read the headlines: "A new era dawns in Cleveland". And next year the headlines will read, "A new era dawns in Cleveland." And the year after that.... you get the idea.

    - Eddie Lacy is picked by the Bengals. That's plausible.

    - Just two safeties are taken, Vaccaro (Rams) and Cyprien (Cowboys). So Elam slides past us to round 2.

    - Of the ILB's only Te'o (Minnesota) is picked before we pick Brown. Ogletree and Minter: welcome to round 2!

    - Steelers take Jarvis Jones. Pretty safe guess there.

    - On the DL, Star Lotulelei slides waaaaaay down to GB at 26. If that happens I see the Ravens and other teams looking to trade up for him. Note: this mock does not include trades.

    - Jesse Williams falls out of round 1.

    - Of the OT's just 4 are mocked in round 1. Watson and Pugh slide to round 2 to join Armstead, Kyle Long, and possibly Bakhtiari there. That's a lot of OL talent jamming up round two Ozzie...

    - Players who missed out on round 1 (and thus the Ravens did not pick in favor of Brown) that are sometimes mocked there: Ogletree, Minter, Carradine, J Williams, Hayden, Jamar Taylor, Elam, Woods, Pugh, Watson. This restates the fact that by the time the Ravens pick (if they don't trade up) there will be a pool of 8-10 plausible 1st round picks for them to choose from. Practically every mock out there shows a similar if slightly varied pool of available players at the bottom of round 1. Doesn't that make trading down more likely? Yep.




  7. #19
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    Re: Latest Pro Football Central mock: Ravens get Arthur Brown

    Jesse Williams won't fall out of round one. The second is where he should be going. he would be a reach in round 1




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