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  1. #13


    Joe Flacco has a long way to go IMHO before HOF can be brought up.

    It isn't fair to compare him to Ben and Eli as he is 3-4 years behind their careers.

    If nothing else, Joe does not have anywhere near the national respect...and the votes are by national writers.

    He needs to make numerous Pro Bowls, and win another championship before I think anyone outside of homers takes his candidacy seriously.

    Rice? There may be a case if he can keep this up for another 3 or 4 years of similar work.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  2. #14

    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    If nothing else, Joe does not have anywhere near the national respect and the votes are by national writers.
    The Super Bowl MVP is transformative for a QB, in terms of national respect. The conversation about Eli changed after his SB (and more so after his second). I think we'll be surprised to hear the language announcers use in talking about Joe, this season.

    I agree that Joe needs to do more to get into the Hall. But not different things; just more of the same. (A lot more of the same ;-)




  3. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    The Super Bowl MVP is transformative for a QB, in terms of national respect. The conversation about Eli changed after his SB (and more so after his second). I think we'll be surprised to hear the language announcers use in talking about Joe, this season.

    I agree that Joe needs to do more to get into the Hall. But not different things; just more of the same. (A lot more of the same ;-)
    You still have multiple bozo analysts on NFL network knocking him as we'll as a player he just beat in the Super Bowl...saying he is a borderline top 10 QB.

    Remember, people still didn't really respect Eli either until after his second Super Bowl.

    One playoff run...while it definitely helped, it is not putting him in HOF discussions.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  4. #16
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Flacco just needs to keep winning. His regular season record so far is an astounding 54-26 @ .675 winning%. Through just 5 years, he is already #77 all time for regular season wins. Another 50 wins and he is in the top 10.

    Flacco's stellar 9-4 playoff record also puts him amongst the greats. He is tied for 10th most playoff wins amongst QB's alltime. And that is only through 5 years. He has as many playoff wins as Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, and Jim Kelly. More wins than Steve Young, Marino, and Eli. I left out the old schoolers since there weren't as many playoff games back then (Unitas won 6). Flacco has almost twice as many playoff wins as Brees and Rodgers, who have 5 each.

    Seeing as how Flacco doesn't play in a pass first offense, and maybe never will, his career will likely be judged on how many games he wins. By that measure, he is definitely off to a HOF start.




  5. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ballhawk View Post
    Flacco just needs to keep winning. His regular season record so far is an astounding 54-26 @ .675 winning%. Through just 5 years, he is already #77 all time for regular season wins. Another 50 wins and he is in the top 10.

    Flacco's stellar 9-4 playoff record also puts him amongst the greats. He is tied for 10th most playoff wins amongst QB's alltime. And that is only through 5 years. He has as many playoff wins as Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, and Jim Kelly. More wins than Steve Young, Marino, and Eli. I left out the old schoolers since there weren't as many playoff games back then (Unitas won 6). Flacco has almost twice as many playoff wins as Brees and Rodgers, who have 5 each.

    Seeing as how Flacco doesn't play in a pass first offense, and maybe never will, his career will likely be judged on how many games he wins. By that measure, he is definitely off to a HOF start.
    You know as well as I do that a significant chunk of national media and other fans attribute much of that winning percentage to the defense and Ray Rice.

    No, it isn't fair, but Joe is going to have to put up better regular season numbers for those people to give him that HOF respect.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  6. #18
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    They do now, but I think if Joe keeps it up for the next 5-10 years, peoples opinions will change.




  7. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ballhawk View Post
    They do now, but I think if Joe keeps it up for the next 5-10 years, peoples opinions will change.
    He's going to have to pick it up in the stats department.

    In this day and age of prolific passing stats, whoever goes to bat for him can't just quote team win-loss record...it's too easy for others to debate against.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  8. #20
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    I agree with woodlawn, Flacco is still for whatever reason disliked by a lot of pundits, he's going t0o have to make a few pro bowls and have some nice statistical seasons to make it in. Ray Rice like I said will never be the best single back in the NFL mainly due to his lack of size, but because he's been so consistent with production and continues that way for the duration of his contract, I can easily see him making it.




  9. #21
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    I think RiW is spot on here.

    Because of his style of play, Flacco has the daunting task of not only winning but changing media perception. It's sports writers that vote for the HoF and once a narrative on a player sets in, it's tough to shake. He's on the right track though. It's just going to take a lot more than one ring to do it.

    As for Rice, he has a lot more to prove than Joe. His position has become saturated with talent and his playoff record as a whole is not very impressive, his monster game in NEa few years ago not withstanding.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. #22

    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    i doubt you could find any team in the nfl that would take a prime flacco or prime rice over a prime ray or prime ogden....in all honesty its not even close




  11. #23
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by blacknpurplepain View Post
    I very seriously doubt that Flacco becomes the most important Raven ever eventho he plays the most important position. Ray Lewis is a God in Bmore so Flacco will never take that crown.. At this time Joe has no pro bowls compared to Ray, JO, Reed and Rice had during their first 5 years. Joe had a great PO run and played better once Cam got fired but IMO Joe has to carry the Ravens on his back before being considered HOF worthy or most important Raven ever.


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    He carried the Ravens on his back during the playoffs... Where were you? Ray Rice was sucking it up and the Ravens 17th ranked defense gave up 88 postseason points, the most points allowed by a Super Bowl winning team in NFL history. They also gave up the most yards. Yet that didn't matter. The Ravens won anyways because of Joe Flacco's playoff run which was the second greatest playoff run in nfl history.

    Hell, Flacco over the past three YEARS has carried his team on his back in the playoffs. With an 18-2 TD/INT ratio, and that SHOULD be 20-2 if Lee Evans and Boldin didn't let him down. That is the second best 3 year span in NFL history, second to only Joe Montana's 88-90 stretch where he had a 22-3 ratio.

    Flacco's last three years he's performed better in the playoffs than players like Brady, Peyton, and Roethlisberger have played if you took their three BEST playoff years and combined them.

    This is why it's so funny that Flacco has to "do it again" to be considered an elite quarterback. If Flacco can do something like this again, he'll cement himself as the second greatest playoff quarterback in NFL history.




  12. #24

    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by inexplicable View Post
    Ogden and Lewis are two of the greatest NFL players in history, but by the end of his career Joe Flacco will probably end up being the most important player the Ravens ever had.
    Blasphemy. When Flacco plays here for 17 years, and is in the argument for greatest football player ever, maybe. But to put perspective on it, as GREAT as the mighty Peyton Manning is/was to the Colts, Johnny Unitas is still 'the man' as far as the Colts franchise goes.

    Ray Lewis ~ BAR NONE




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