Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 72 of 74
  1. #61

    Re: Flacco #100 on PFF's Top 101 of 2012 (and why it's ridiculous)



    Not sure why Psur does not think Watt had an all time season for his position. Just getting that many sacks from the 3 or 5 is crazy but add in the swatts and it has to be right there with any of the all time individual great performances.







  2. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    703

    Re: Flacco #100 on PFF's Top 101 of 2012 (and why it's ridiculous)

    J.J. Watt didn't have a GOAT type season? What? 20.5 sacks from a position who's primary job is to take up blocks, in addition to doing that job amazingly and being one of the best in the league against the run. That's not even taking into consideration the 16 batted passes he had. I honestly would say it was the absolute best season ever by a defensive player by a decent margin. Maybe even the best year a player has a had in NFL history.

    Sure the Texans probably would have been okay without him having that year, but what does that have to do with how good he played?




  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    24,706
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Flacco #100 on PFF's Top 101 of 2012 (and why it's ridiculous)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpiderWebb View Post
    J.J. Watt didn't have a GOAT type season? What? 20.5 sacks from a position who's primary job is to take up blocks, in addition to doing that job amazingly and being one of the best in the league against the run. That's not even taking into consideration the 16 batted passes he had. I honestly would say it was the absolute best season ever by a defensive player by a decent margin. Maybe even the best year a player has a had in NFL history.

    Sure the Texans probably would have been okay without him having that year, but what does that have to do with how good he played?

    It doesn't.

    However, I certainly would argue that AP's season was greater than Watt's because without AP the Vikings wouldn't have been successful at all. The Texans still would have done well without Watt's tremendous performance.

    Watt is a great player and I don't think anyone here is trying to take that away from him. Watt is arguably the best defensive player in the league right now.

    It is just my opinion and I can only assume that others posting similar things feel the same way, but AP's season was more impressive than Watt's when you look at the total impact on their respective teams.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger


    My RSR Blog:
    http://russellstreetreport.com/author/paullukoskie/

    Check out Fatherhood Rules - a blog site dedicated to sports, food, music, movies, and politics.
    http://fatherhoodrules.com




  4. #64

    Re: Flacco #100 on PFF's Top 101 of 2012 (and why it's ridiculous)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpiderWebb View Post
    J.J. Watt didn't have a GOAT type season? What? 20.5 sacks from a position who's primary job is to take up blocks, in addition to doing that job amazingly and being one of the best in the league against the run. That's not even taking into consideration the 16 batted passes he had. I honestly would say it was the absolute best season ever by a defensive player by a decent margin. Maybe even the best year a player has a had in NFL history.

    Sure the Texans probably would have been okay without him having that year, but what does that have to do with how good he played?
    Yeah. That was what was what I was thinking. Not to take anything away from Peterson, but what Watt did had never been done before either and he did it by a wide margin.

    IMO Jamal Lewis' 2003 season was slightly more impressive than Peterson last year. Jamal was also coming off multiple destroyed knee ligaments. There was J.O. out there but a rookie Kyle Boller was the QB and no one other than Ogden was even above average on offense. Maybe a young Heap was a top 10 TE. Also there was a suspect call that took away what would have been yet another 50+ yard td vs the charlie browns that record breaking day that maybe puts Jamal over the top of Dickerson's yard mark.







  5. #65

    Re: Flacco #100 on PFF's Top 101 of 2012 (and why it's ridiculous)

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    It doesn't.

    However, I certainly would argue that AP's season was greater than Watt's because without AP the Vikings wouldn't have been successful at all. The Texans still would have done well without Watt's tremendous performance.

    Watt is a great player and I don't think anyone here is trying to take that away from him. Watt is arguably the best defensive player in the league right now.

    It is just my opinion and I can only assume that others posting similar things feel the same way, but AP's season was more impressive than Watt's when you look at the total impact on their respective teams.
    How could you measure what the Texan D would have been without Watt? Look at our D and SF when Nagta and Smith got hurt. The wheels fell off.

    RB is just not as valuable or irreplacable a position as your big man up front. Peterson is as good a rb as there is and maybe ever was, but without his starting QB, the Vikings were pathetic in the postseason and Peterson was not effective.







  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Detroit Michigan
    Posts
    1,906
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah W View Post
    How could you measure what the Texan D would have been without Watt? Look at our D and SF when Nagta and Smith got hurt. The wheels fell off.

    RB is just not as valuable or irreplacable a position as your big man up front. Peterson is as good a rb as there is and maybe ever was, but without his starting QB, the Vikings were pathetic in the postseason and Peterson was not effective.
    The problem with this logic is the value of those positions is relative to the team. You can't simply say RB isn't as important. It absolutely is to the Vikings.

    Taking that relativity into consideration, AP was more valuable than Watt. The man single handedly got his team into the playoffs. You can honestly say Watt was more valuable to the Texans than AP was to the Vikings?

    Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  7. #67

    Re: Flacco #100 on PFF's Top 101 of 2012 (and why it's ridiculous)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    The problem with this logic is the value of those positions is relative to the team. You can't simply say RB isn't as important. It absolutely is to the Vikings.

    Taking that relativity into consideration, AP was more valuable than Watt. The man single handedly got his team into the playoffs. You can honestly say Watt was more valuable to the Texans than AP was to the Vikings?

    Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
    In a word, yes.

    The Vikings were 10-6 I guess last year and Peterson was amazing and it is easy to give the feature back a ton of credit with a young QB and low ranked pass attack. percy Harvin and Ponder actually did have a major role in the success though, and when Ponder got hurt they had no chance. In years past Peterson performed behind good lines and tough defenses, but without good QB play or the ability to stop other good QBs, they have never been able to get over the top. With Favre Peterson went nuts and he got his yards with Jackson at QB, but the wins and losses have a lot more to do with the other key positions IMO starting in the trenches.

    Peterson is the best of the running backs, and running backs are still the workhorse of most offenses, but there are just so many good and effective ones out there that I think what Watt did vs other DTs is more impressive tha what Peterson has done vs othe Rbs. It was not like he had another dominant guy on the line to draw the double teams away from him. He also was dealing with a pretty serious elbow injury.

    I would put Megatron breaking a Jerry Rice record right there in the mix as well. It is not his fault they did not play good defense or have a running game. He just beat double coverage all day long like no one I have ever seen.







  8. #68
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    2,220
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Flacco #100 on PFF's Top 101 of 2012 (and why it's ridiculous)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah W View Post
    How could you measure what the Texan D would have been without Watt? Look at our D and SF when Nagta and Smith got hurt. The wheels fell off.

    RB is just not as valuable or irreplacable a position as your big man up front. Peterson is as good a rb as there is and maybe ever was, but without his starting QB, the Vikings were pathetic in the postseason and Peterson was not effective.
    Really? What other outcome would you expect when the defense can put 11 in the box?
    "What would you give for the man beside you?"




  9. #69

    Re: Flacco #100 on PFF's Top 101 of 2012 (and why it's ridiculous)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayc00 View Post
    Really? What other outcome would you expect when the defense can put 11 in the box?
    Fair enough, but there have been plenty of other times where he had a great season but the team did not make the playoffs. MJD led the NFL in rushing on like a 4-12 team. Barry Sanders was not able to carry the Lions the same way a great QB can.

    My argument really is not a knock on Peterson it is just running back vs DT who can rush the QB is a mismatch in the first place because of supply vs demand. You can find a running back, but the NFL has been looking for the next Warren Sapp for a long time. Watt had a better year statistically than Sapp ever did. Now you can debate all day who was the better player like I used to argue with my boys about why Barry is better than Emmit, but I just take issue with the notion that what Watt did is not even worthy of goat type disscussion when the numbers are unpreccedented.







  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Detroit Michigan
    Posts
    1,906
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah W View Post
    In a word, yes.

    The Vikings were 10-6 I guess last year and Peterson was amazing and it is easy to give the feature back a ton of credit with a young QB and low ranked pass attack. percy Harvin and Ponder actually did have a major role in the success though, and when Ponder got hurt they had no chance. In years past Peterson performed behind good lines and tough defenses, but without good QB play or the ability to stop other good QBs, they have never been able to get over the top. With Favre Peterson went nuts and he got his yards with Jackson at QB, but the wins and losses have a lot more to do with the other key positions IMO starting in the trenches.
    A) Percy Harvin didn't even Crack 700 yards and also played in a total of 9 games.


    B) Bringing up previous years is irrelevant. In any case, it doesn't support your point. In 2009 with Favre they were 5th overall in total offense, and despite having 44 less carries on the year than he did in 2012, and I'm sure facing 8 men in the box much less, he averaged 1.6 less yards per carry than he did in 2012 (6.0 ypc).



    Peterson is the best of the running backs, and running backs are still the workhorse of most offenses, but there are just so many good and effective ones out there that I think what Watt did vs other DTs is more impressive tha what Peterson has done vs othe Rbs

    If you want to use positional comparisons as the criteria, versus the entire history of the NFL only one other player was able to accomplish what AP did.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Detroit Michigan
    Posts
    1,906
    And also, because AP couldn't win with Joe Webb at QB, in the playoffs no less, that proves Ponder gets an equal share of credit? I don't think so.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  12. #72

    Re: Flacco #100 on PFF's Top 101 of 2012 (and why it's ridiculous)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    And also, because AP couldn't win with Joe Webb at QB, in the playoffs no less, that proves Ponder gets an equal share of credit? I don't think so.
    I am going to go ahead and back track a bit for the sake of argument. I can conceed any reasonable point you want about how great Peterson is and especcially was last year. I still like Jamal 2003 a little more or many of Barry Sanders seasons a little more but just preference not decernable difference.

    20.5 sacks and more deflections than a corner. Who does he have as a supporting cast last year. An 8 or even 9 man front for a RB is no worse than a committed double team on a DT. Both guys are getting equal prep time in the coordinator meetings. Coaches are inventing ways to get the QB to throw around him, he is double blocked and he still made ton of plays. More than anyone I can ever remember at the same position in one season. Maybe he was not Reggie White or anything, but maybe Peterson was no Barry Sanders or OJ Simpson. The point is there is plenty of room for debate and variety of opinions, but the stats Watt put up put him right in the middle of the discussion, especcially if he takes it up a notch or even follows up with another few seasons like that. IMO that is why Jamal and 2003 was over looked last year. He did not have the consistancy of a Peterson so his season was easily over shadowed, like the guy who lost the single season sack record to a Favre sacrifice to Strahan.







Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Russell Street Report Website Design by D3Corp Ocean City Maryland