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  1. #13
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    Re: Benghazi is Starting to Blow Up



    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Both sides force issues for political reasons. It doesn't mean that what they're pushing is false.

    Watergate was the Dems pushing what most people thought was a simple burglary.

    Nobody died in Watergate. Four people died in Libya and one side is doing everything possible to stonewall a complete investigation.

    I'd say the politics is, at a minimum, flowing on both sides.
    True. Both sides are guilty of turning this into politics as usual.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  2. #14

    Re: Benghazi is Starting to Blow Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    Where would the jet come from? Any fighter jet would be coming from Europe and need midair refueling enroute. There weren't any jets generated that could've made it in time. That is a fact.

    No one is saying ignore 911 calls. But this isn't a movie. The military is on alert for every possible threat world wide. During the attack we didn't know the size of the attacking force and potentially what weapons they had. You would be sending any force in blind. By the time we at AFRICOM had any information worth acting on, the attack was over.

    Apart of me feels like some in the GOP may be forcing the issue for the political reasons.
    Which is it? The military is on alert for every possible threat or they don't even have a refueling tanker on standby? And why was Hicks told a jet likely was not coming due to the fear of offending the Libyan government along with the reason of a tanker not being available? And what forces were General Ham referring to when he said he had forces ready but was never given the order to send them?

    What we know is that the military was told they could not get involved (this order came from on high and early). Any subsequent excuse or reason they give is suspect considering this fact/order and the obvious reality that without such an excuse they would be left saying "we didn't do all we could for our people."

    As for intelligence, we had people on the ground in communication and an overhead drone. We also aren't dealing with SAM batteries, enemy air force or any credible army in such situations.

    This idea that we need 100% confirmed intelligence and 0% risk profile in order to mount a rescue effort against a terrorist attack is embarrassing if it is the current state of our military. But I doubt that is the case at all.

    And even then, as I said and as will never stop being true, no one knew when this attack would end. After the fact statements of "wouldn't have got there in time" are nonsense. No one knew that at the time they were ruling out military intervention. Woods and Doherty were killed 7 hours after the attack commenced.
    Last edited by Haloti92; 05-11-2013 at 09:26 PM.




  3. #15

    Re: Benghazi is Starting to Blow Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    Whether something could have been done we'll never hear the full story on, but regardless (and this falls largely on Bush as well) , our embassies and consulates have had a rough decade, and that to me warrants some serious attention.


    Bottom line is this isn't a Left or a Right issue, this is an American politics issue.
    Competing parties despise each other so much that in the process we refuse to hold members of our own parties responsible for their actions for fear of admiting any weakness. This willfully obsequious attitude toward our favorite parties is revolting, and has turned American politics into a consequence free playground.


    You hear politicians and differing party advocates clamor about bipartisanship, and to me this is the exactly the kind of thing that warrants bipartisan attention, and be labeled utterly and completely reprehensible.
    Totally agree. Had this been an accidental plane crash that killed 4 diplomats, the NTSB would have launched a full investigation to determine what happened, why, and, most importantly, to identify actions that could be done to prevent a similar incident in the future.

    The fact that the administration instead chose to deflect responsibility on an obscure YouTube blogger borders on criminal negligence.

    And where is the so-called 4th Estate in all this? In bed with one of the political parties.




  4. #16
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    Re: Benghazi is Starting to Blow Up

    OBY is feeling the heat too. He's crying in this pic. He knows he's in trouble and there
    are even impeachment mumblings in Congress especially the house. The DEM controlled
    Senate would never let it happen but there might be enough votes in the house to
    get impeachment w/o removal ala Clinton.

    http://news.yahoo.com/photos/tear-ru...170209867.html
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 05-13-2013 at 07:11 PM.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




  5. #17
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    Re: Benghazi is Starting to Blow Up

    Obama is not going to get impeached.

    There's no evidence to suggest he was ever in on anything related to it. This all points to Hillary.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  6. #18
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    Re: Benghazi is Starting to Blow Up

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Obama is not going to get impeached.

    There's no evidence to suggest he was ever in on anything related to it. This all points to Hillary.
    Youre probably right but never say never. While most of this is about Hilly, it's about
    OBY too and don't forget the IRS going after Conservatives. That was a Cincinnati
    Office mistake but it leads up to the WH, just like Benghazi.

    As President Ford said, Congress can impeach on whatever they vote for and GOP
    controls the house and still has votes in the Sentate. More evidence is being discovered
    every day. One can be impeached for a misdemeanor depending how embarrassing it
    is and how much the public wants it, so there's enough to possibly impeach him for
    gross negligence as our leader.

    In the case of Clinton the public wanted it and there were enough votes to remove him but
    GOP didn't want to because Gore would have been the incumbent running vs W and
    incumbents usually win like OBY just did. You saw how close the Gore vote was so
    it's safe to say he would have won had he been the incumbent. Unlike Tricky Dick who
    was never lucky, Slick Willie can count his lucky stars he wasn't removed.

    Never say never.



    http://stop-obama-now.net/offense/
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 05-13-2013 at 07:10 PM.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




  7. #19
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    If they wont or wouldnt impeach over Fast and Furious, then I doubt they'll go after him on this one.

    They're going to let Hillary fall on this grenade.

    I still find it rather incredible how much information is mishandled, garbled, and flat out ignored by leadership. Happens far too much IMO.

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  8. #20
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    Re: Benghazi is Starting to Blow Up

    Not to mention the public like in the case of Holder. The public just didn't want it unlike with Nixon and Clinton. They probably won't want it with OBY either. He has 9 lives of a cat.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




  9. #21
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    Re: Benghazi is Starting to Blow Up

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    If they wont or wouldnt impeach over Fast and Furious, then I doubt they'll go after him on this one.

    They're going to let Hillary fall on this grenade.

    I still find it rather incredible how much information is mishandled, garbled, and flat out ignored by leadership. Happens far too much IMO.

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Forum Runner
    Maybe a little bit of a tangent, but I wonder if this is because nowadays there is too much information. Does it get garbled because it comes in so fast and in such volume (probably at the insistence of highers) instead of being worked some first and presented more clearly and concisely? And, of course, there is the competition to be the first one to tell highers something which often results in wrong first reports.




  10. #22
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    Re: Benghazi is Starting to Blow Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    Which is it? The military is on alert for every possible threat or they don't even have a refueling tanker on standby? And why was Hicks told a jet likely was not coming due to the fear of offending the Libyan government along with the reason of a tanker not being available? And what forces were General Ham referring to when he said he had forces ready but was never given the order to send them?

    What we know is that the military was told they could not get involved (this order came from on high and early). Any subsequent excuse or reason they give is suspect considering this fact/order and the obvious reality that without such an excuse they would be left saying "we didn't do all we could for our people."

    As for intelligence, we had people on the ground in communication and an overhead drone. We also aren't dealing with SAM batteries, enemy air force or any credible army in such situations.

    This idea that we need 100% confirmed intelligence and 0% risk profile in order to mount a rescue effort against a terrorist attack is embarrassing if it is the current state of our military. But I doubt that is the case at all.

    And even then, as I said and as will never stop being true, no one knew when this attack would end. After the fact statements of "wouldn't have got there in time" are nonsense. No one knew that at the time they were ruling out military intervention. Woods and Doherty were killed 7 hours after the attack commenced.
    You have your opinion and I have mine. We're just have to agree to disagree. On this incident I form my opinion from my training and experiences in military command and control, and my knowledge of first hand account on Benghazi, given where I currently work.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  11. #23
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    Re: Benghazi is Starting to Blow Up

    Quote Originally Posted by JStruds View Post
    Maybe a little bit of a tangent, but I wonder if this is because nowadays there is too much information. Does it get garbled because it comes in so fast and in such volume (probably at the insistence of highers) instead of being worked some first and presented more clearly and concisely? And, of course, there is the competition to be the first one to tell highers something which often results in wrong first reports.
    True. I can't tell you how many times I've submitted Operational Reports only to turn around and submit a correction or followup because the first notification was completely wrong. There is alot of pressure to make notification to higher ups.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  12. #24
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    Re: Benghazi is Starting to Blow Up

    I understand changes that occur on the ground and within the hours after the attack.

    But that's not what happened here. Changes in talking points, event details, etc occurred at a much higher level some 60+ hours after the attack AND after 90% of the info was already collected.

    Take a look at the email exchanges between the Director and the WH. It's very clear these are not SitRep changes. These are politically motivated changes.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




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