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  1. #49

    Re: What is wrong with Joe Namath.



    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Dawson and Tarkenton were from Joe's era of the 60s. Fran was the
    original scrambler of Minn. He didnt win the Sb. Dawson beat Minn in SB 4 with
    pin point passing.

    I never liked either one because Colts always beat them. They contained Fran's
    scrambling pretty well but I sure would have like to see Joe here after Unitas left.

    To borrow a phrase from Mr. Uber, saying Nameth got into the Hall for the wrong
    reason is "sour grapes" from Baltimoreans.
    Hey, I hated him as much as the next
    Baltimorean but I respect him for what he did for football even though it came at
    our expense.
    No, it's not "sour grapes" at all. It's based on the fact that his career numbers were largely inferior to all his contemporaries who are in the HOF, and several who didn't even make it. It's also based on the fact that, outside of '68, he got his team into the playoffs exactly ONE more time in 11+ years (and went 0-1). None of that changes just because a Baltimore Colts fan says it.




  2. #50
    Half of his board probably wasn't even alive when SB III was played and a very big chunk of this board weren't even born when the Colts left so sour grapes is far from the reason we think he's overrated.

    Again, his own defense was always pissed at him because he was a turnover machine.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  3. #51
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    Re: What is wrong with Joe Namath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Half of his board probably wasn't even alive when SB III was played and a very big chunk of this board weren't even born when the Colts left so sour grapes is far from the reason we think he's overrated.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    I was referring to the old timers that are posting like us. Again, I always hated him
    and that defense of his sure didn't complain after SB 3. He promised and he delivered.

    Besides the Colts offense moved at will on that defense between the 20 yard lines. It
    just couldn't score. The defense bent but didnt break just like ours in SB 47. Like posted above, Matte still has the record for longest run from scrimmage and he was the slowest RB in history and his record for most rushing yardage stood til the Seattle SB.

    Unitas finally went all the way and scored when he came in and would have if that
    stupid Shula had started him to begin with.

    See here with Morrall marching down field but Jets got tough at 20 yd line. Then
    Lou missed FG and that changed the momentum of the game.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZBtJe5kgY0
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 05-23-2013 at 10:26 PM.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




  4. #52
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    Re: What is wrong with Joe Namath.

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Dawson and Tarkenton were from Joe's era of the 60s. Fran was the
    original scrambler of Minn. He didnt win the Sb. Dawson beat Minn in SB 4 with
    pin point passing.

    I never liked either one because Colts always beat them. They contained Fran's
    scrambling pretty well but I sure would have like to see Joe here after Unitas left.

    To borrow a phrase from Mr. Uber, saying Nameth got into the Hall for the wrong
    reason is "sour grapes" from Baltimoreans. Hey, I hated him as much as the next
    Baltimorean but I respect him for what he did for football even though it came at
    our expense.
    No sour grapes for me. I'm a New Yorker and not a Baltimorean and never was a Colts fan, though I love reading about many of the Colts all time greats. That game was played about a month before I was born so I've only seen it with all the commentary and analysis thrown in. I appreciate Namath the icon and thought he was brilliant the way he called that Super Bowl game but compared to others at his position from the same time he was a cut below on the field. '

    Go look up the numbers for Roman Gabriel who also played at the same time as Namath. There is a QB with much better numbers than Namath who also won a MVP award but has no shot of ever making the Hall of Fame. Does Namath really belong more than Gabriel because of Super Bowl III?
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  5. #53
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    Re: What is wrong with Joe Namath.

    Quote Originally Posted by lovefootball View Post
    Rumored that the game was fixed and some owner made a lot of money that was used to purchase a team on the west coast. Have heard this rumor from older guys with connections to some union. Namath has ridden his SB win to get on the news and talk shows, what else has he accomplished? Any involvement in charities or something else. His win over the colts means nothing to Ravens fans, he is a has been and needs to get out of football.
    Tell that to his 8M fans in the Big Apple.

    That owner on the West Coast was none other than Big Al.

    I believed for over 30 years the game was fixed and even posted above that Namath had
    mob connections from his Bachelor's 3 bar. Maybe he knew something. In a funny, Bill
    Pellington the great Colt MLB of the 50s and early 60s is from NY. His dad owned a bar
    and he was the bouncer at 16. He owned the Iron Horse restaurant in Cockeysville when
    he retired from the Colts.

    Word on the street from bars on York Rd was that Pellington bet $30,000 on the Jets.
    He had contacts in NY too. Conversely, Rosey, the owner of the Colts bet on the Colts.
    A Miami bookie said that so if there was a fix, Rosey didn't know about it. He always
    bet on the Colts like in the 58 Championship game. When the Colts were in FG range
    in Sudden Death Rosey was on the side line pushing Weeb to go for the TD. A FG
    wouldn't cover the point spread. The Colts might have fumbled but didn't. John hit
    Mutchler on the 1 and Ameche made his famous plunge. All the Colts got envlopes
    slipped under their doors as part of the bet according to JOhn Steadman in his book
    FROM COLTS to RAVENS.

    It's been well documented that Al Davis, the AFL Comish and man responsible for the
    merger had mob connections. When a TV reporter ran a documentry on it in LA she
    had an accident and ended up dead in a ditch. Bubba Smith then recanted his book where
    he said the game was fixed. All he had to do was look at the film and see Boozer run
    by him the entire game. He hit Namath once but Gaublatz had the only sack for a 9 yd
    loss.

    Billions of dollars were at stake if there really was a clause that the merger was voided
    if NFL won first 3 SBs. In the end Al lost his job as comish and Pete Rozelle didn't bring
    him into his office so he ended up being the owner of the Raiders and there was a lot
    of suspicious stuff about that as he made the Raider's owner an offer he couldn't refuse.
    Unitas always said Al Davis would steal from his own grandmother.

    Al had his first job in football in Bmore when Weeb hired
    him as an assistant. He drove Weeb nuts asking questions all the time and he finally got
    rid of him. It was Al who got the AFL to spend money of college stars like the Chargers WR Lance Alworth and the Jets Joe Namath.

    They had two aces. The oil money from Lamar Hunt's and Bud Adams families. The were
    both young playboys who wanted to be pro football owners. John Madden was coaching
    the Raiders in 1960 and asked Hunt's father if he knew his son just blew over $1M on
    the Dallas Texans. Mr. Hunt said he only has another $100M to go in his piggy bank.
    Madden said that's when he knew they would survive.

    Unitas has the above quote that Davis would steal from his own grandmother but when
    Madden was aksed if he only had one phone call to make who would he make it to.

    Without hesitation he said Al Davis.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 05-23-2013 at 10:24 PM.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




  6. #54
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    Re: What is wrong with Joe Namath.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    No sour grapes for me. I'm a New Yorker and not a Baltimorean and never was a Colts fan, though I love reading about many of the Colts all time greats. That game was played about a month before I was born so I've only seen it with all the commentary and analysis thrown in. I appreciate Namath the icon and thought he was brilliant the way he called that Super Bowl game but compared to others at his position from the same time he was a cut below on the field. '

    Go look up the numbers for Roman Gabriel who also played at the same time as Namath. There is a QB with much better numbers than Namath who also won a MVP award but has no shot of ever making the Hall of Fame. Does Namath really belong more than Gabriel because of Super Bowl III?
    Like I said he was first to gain over 4,000 yards and he helped make football the national
    past time.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




  7. #55
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    Re: What is wrong with Joe Namath.

    Back to the game being fixed and in Earl Morrall's defense, he always said that the team took the game too lightly. They already won the NFL Championship game in Cleveland and that was the biggest thing to them. The SB wasn't as big as it is today. The Colts went down and partied while the Jets went down and worked but in Shula's defense, when they went down to the playoff bowl in Miami to beat Dallas with Matte as the QB, Shula took it easy on the team and didn't work them to death and let them golf and party. They were so
    superior to Dallas that it worked. So Shula thought that approach would work again.

    Conversely, Lombardi said in the first SB that we will not be an embarrassment to the NFL
    and let the upstart AFL beat us. You will not lose and he worked them to death. The
    Packers were scared to lose.

    Alex Hawkins, CAPT WHO, quoted in his book, THAT'S MY STORY AND I'M STICKING TO IT, Jimmy Orr who said we got to slip a mickey in Earl's drink and knock him out so he can't play. Orr was the only Colt who noticed that Morrall had bad practices all week. He missed Jimmy in practice and in the game. Jimmy knew Earl was gonna choke.

    Hawkins said Earl was a so so journey man QB who came to the Colts and took us to all those victories. He played over his head all year and the team kept waiting for him to collapse. He finally choked in the biggest games of our lives. Orr didn't speak to Earl
    for 20 years until he ran into to him at a charity golf tournament. Earl walked up with
    tears in his eyes and said I never saw you, I never saw you on the goal line on the
    flea ficker at the end of the first half. Orr said he was such a nice guy I just couldn't
    keep on hating him but Bill Curry the All Pro Center who only weight 250 lbs to Matt
    Birks 330, said I saw Jimmy all alone as soon as I stood up and I was just the Center.
    Film shows Earl never looked to his left where the play was designed to go. He looks
    straight ahead the entire time. That's why Jimmy hated him because he didn't even
    look his way. If you look at the play in Atlanta where they scored on it Earl looks to
    his left the entire time and hit Orr with nobody around him. Shula recently said on
    espn that Earl knew they play was designed to go to the left.

    That's why I always thought the game was fixed.


    The players knew he was gonna choke. Everyone knew it but Shula who had a point to make with Unitas that he was the boss and John would play when he said so. Unitas had told Shula he was ready to start. Again, Unitas said I only needed 1 more min to win the game.'

    Back to the game being fixed, just look at that drive and how it
    stalled at the 20. The Colts were getting their asses handed to them
    in the trenches. That's where they lost it and where all games are
    won and lost.

    The Jets were hungrier so Earl might have been right but then again, those union
    guys might be too.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 05-24-2013 at 06:03 AM.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




  8. #56
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    Re: What is wrong with Joe Namath.

    Another funny, on the Lou Michaels missed FG that turned the momentum around. The night before Weeb got his assistant Walt Michaels, Lou's brother to take him out for drinks and get him drunk and pump him for information. True story.

    So they were out drinking and Lou is spilling his guts to Walt. Now
    I would never do this to my brother. Lou said there was a bad accident in practice when OLB Don Schinnick ran into DE Ordell Brasse and they both got banged up bad, so much so that they couldn't run during the game but still played.

    Once Weeb got the info he changed the game plan to attack their side, the weak side. Brasse played like the Statue of Liberty as they ran by him and Schinnick. Lou also said hat the CB on that side, Lenny Lyles who was our Pollard, was sick with the virus so Weeb went after them. Just go back up to the link and look at the vid.

    While they were drinking, Namath walked in and Lou went after him. It took 10 guys to pull him back. Then Namath ordered a round of drinks for everyone and Lou said to Walt, he's not such a bad guy afterall. LOL.

    Weeb got his info. He did the same thing in 58. He sent an assistant Charlie Winner to photograph the Giants practices. He got on the roof across the street. Rosey said he'd take care of Charlie's family if he ever got caught.

    The Giants played the Colts during that regular season and Weeb wanted to be sure no new plays went into the playbook. Winner reported there were none. Winner later became head coach of the St Louis Cardinals.

    Arty said in his book, FATSO, that the CIA would have won the cold war a lot sooner if it hired Weeb and Paul brown as spies. When Weeb came to the Colts he stole the Browns draft board and Brown was pissed when he saw one guy going off the board after another and even filed a complaint with NFL and Weeb said who me? Steal their draft board.

    One player he stole from that board was Raymond Berry.

    And speaking of Paul Brown who never let his QB call the plays, he was asked later in
    life if he would have let Unitas call his plays. He ducked the question saying I almost
    had Unitas.

    Unitas was cut by the Squeelers and sent letters to every team. Brown got back to him
    and said wait til next year. He still had Sammy Baugh the best at that time and he
    would retire the next year but Don Kellett the Colts GM got the letter and made the famous
    75 cent phone call and signed Unitas.

    Brown was also pissed when Colts drafted Tom Matte from his back yard in Ohio State.
    Matte was released after his rookie year because of injuries and Brown made an offer
    and increased his salary to $20,000 pr yr but Kellett matched it and Matte stayed and
    the rest is history.

    I asked him if he was ever sorry to not go back to his home town and he said hell no.
    I have a SB ring and a business that I wouldn't have there.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 05-23-2013 at 11:07 PM.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




  9. #57
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    Jim Plunkett's numbers weren't good enough to get him in despite two Super Bowls. He had a similar career to Namath. Mediocre efficiency for pretty much all of their careers. Namath had one great year culminating in a Super Bowl. Plunkett had two. If I had my vote, Plunkett would be in or Namath would be out, but you can't have Namath in and Plunkett out and claim it has anything to do with what happened on the field. Bulk numbers are worthless in my opinion as well so I give absolutely zero credit to a 4,000 yard passing season. Bulk is irrelevant. Situational performance and efficiency are what matters as well as quality over time. Namath didn't have it.




  10. #58
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    Re: What is wrong with Joe Namath.

    Namath was horribly overrated; a complete media hype machine. He led the league in interceptions four friggin times. Put him in any other city, and he is Steve Bartkowski, John Hadl or Archie Manning. Solid starter, sometimes probowl worthy, but definitely not HOF worthy.




  11. #59

    Re: What is wrong with Joe Namath.

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Unitas got the game's only TD in air and that was a short flair to Tom Matte
    who ran it in.
    I thought the Colt's only touchdown that day was a run by Jerry Hill.




  12. #60

    Re: What is wrong with Joe Namath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick19 View Post
    I thought the Colt's only touchdown that day was a run by Jerry Hill.
    What, you're expecting accuracy from a guy who thinks Sammy Baugh played for Paul Brown? Let him ramble.
    I've upped my standards. Up yours.




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