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  1. #325
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX Y'all
    Posts
    19,960

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach



    Quote Originally Posted by RavenScallywag View Post
    side note...dude is getting a pedicure before football? Huh.
    I don't blame him.

    Love pedicures. And it's smart he's taking care of his feet.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.





  2. #326
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Green Bay, WI
    Posts
    136

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I don't blame him.

    Love pedicures. And it's smart he's taking care of his feet.
    Rex Ryan agrees.




  3. #327
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Stevensville, MD
    Posts
    1,333

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    I agree, I think he's in B-more and will be re-signed tomorrow.
    Never get in a fight with a pig; you both get muddy, and the pig likes it...





  4. #328

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Come on man, two million to play on a perennial playoff contender? I'd have to be offered three million just to leave.

    Of course, Leach also has to get over the devaluation of his position, with is far from easy and I wouldn't blame him if he didn't. That's tough to take, especially for such a seasoned veteran.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  5. #329

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    I still question whether his return would strengthen the team. Mentor for Juice for 2m? ST player for 2m vs league min? losing a bubble player at more pivotal position and/or with more long term value? I like Leach i just question if this makes us any better now and in the future, certainly for the money (reported). I just dont see the value in bringing him back.
    -JAB




  6. #330

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I still question whether his return would strengthen the team. Mentor for Juice for 2m? ST player for 2m vs league min? losing a bubble player at more pivotal position and/or with more long term value? I like Leach i just question if this makes us any better now and in the future, certainly for the money (reported). I just dont see the value in bringing him back.
    I know there is no way to ever quantify what a football player does into the baseball equivalent of Wins Above Replacement, but I wish there was some "Points above Replacement" stat out there.

    If Leach makes 4-5 goal line blocks over the course of the season that Juice-check wouldn't make or wouldn't make as well, and that puts 3-4 extra 7s on the board versus 3s....right there is a numerical justification of his contract alone.

    In my opinion, if you have to sacrifice an extra $1.5m against your salary cap to secure a player who adds only an extra 8 points to your teams column (two TDs versus FGs), I still think that's a good value for that money. That's not even factoring the impact his blocking would make on short-distance non-goalline situations.

    Without knowing how good or not good Juice will be, I think it's a reasonable assessment that Leach's flawless blocking will probably contribute a few critical short yardage conversions that wouldn't have been converted if any other fullback in the league was replacing him.

    The salary cap impact is a very low factor. This late in the football offseason, whatever veteran might potentially come available at CB or WR is not going to carry to the price tag to endanger our salary cap. Assuming Leach signs, I believe that still puts us around $4m under the cap.

    The only negative that I see is what you alluded to about him taking away a spot from a younger fringe player with more long-term upside. However, the Ravens have historically proven to be very shrewd at protecting those type of players from other organizations.




  7. #331
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Wilton, CT
    Posts
    11,321
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I still question whether his return would strengthen the team. Mentor for Juice for 2m? ST player for 2m vs league min? losing a bubble player at more pivotal position and/or with more long term value? I like Leach i just question if this makes us any better now and in the future, certainly for the money (reported). I just dont see the value in bringing him back.
    Leach is the best blocking FB in the NFL. No one even questions that statement. There are all sorts of game situations where those kind of blocks make the difference. Since the issue is 2013, what bubble player for this year would the Ravens have to lose if they signed Leach for $2 million? Who is that guy and would he have a greater impact than Leach?
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  8. #332

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    I know there is no way to ever quantify what a football player does into the baseball equivalent of Wins Above Replacement, but I wish there was some "Points above Replacement" stat out there.

    If Leach makes 4-5 goal line blocks over the course of the season that Juice-check wouldn't make or wouldn't make as well, and that puts 3-4 extra 7s on the board versus 3s....right there is a numerical justification of his contract alone.

    In my opinion, if you have to sacrifice an extra $1.5m against your salary cap to secure a player who adds only an extra 8 points to your teams column (two TDs versus FGs), I still think that's a good value for that money. That's not even factoring the impact his blocking would make on short-distance non-goalline situations.

    Without knowing how good or not good Juice will be, I think it's a reasonable assessment that Leach's flawless blocking will probably contribute a few critical short yardage conversions that wouldn't have been converted if any other fullback in the league was replacing him.

    The salary cap impact is a very low factor. This late in the football offseason, whatever veteran might potentially come available at CB or WR is not going to carry to the price tag to endanger our salary cap. Assuming Leach signs, I believe that still puts us around $4m under the cap.

    The only negative that I see is what you alluded to about him taking away a spot from a younger fringe player with more long-term upside. However, the Ravens have historically proven to be very shrewd at protecting those type of players from other organizations.
    Well i think our main difference here is that you feel Juice is going to miss blocks while im assuming hes coached to know his assignments. Because Leach is great at finishing blocks doesnt mean that a FB has to decleat a LB to effectively block said LB. Thats also not saying Juice doesnt have that same ability either as were yet to see it. That ability to put a LB on his ass may be what separates him from average but at the end of the day I dont see the value in it because im figuring Juice to be able to effectively block regardless. The 4-5 blocks also isnt taking into account what plays Juice could have end up as TDs as well. its possible that what Juice offers in the passing game and being a duel threat mitigates those points (-4/5 goalline vs +4/5 passing). which means theres little to no value in adding him when taking into account that another player will be lost at a position well more likely need than 2 FBs.
    -JAB




  9. #333

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Leach is the best blocking FB in the NFL. No one even questions that statement. There are all sorts of game situations where those kind of blocks make the difference. Since the issue is 2013, what bubble player for this year would the Ravens have to lose if they signed Leach for $2 million? Who is that guy and would he have a greater impact than Leach?
    and like i said, imo, the best vs guys not even in the league when you consider how many teams dont even carry one, isnt that great of a difference. Saying hes the best is fine, saying a guy off the street isnt capable of filling his blocking assignment i think is taking away from our coaches ability to coach. Carrying two FBs seems like and odd place to value roster spots. when the majority of the league, including our own with caldwell, arent using them either at all or at a high percentage.

    I have less issue with the 2m assuming we can still carry over the max allowed to help us with next years cap. thats where 2m vs min comes into play for me, not this years cap necessarily, but its implications on next years.

    as far as which bubble player, it could be a lot. could be our 6th WR, our 6/7th DB, a DL or most likely our 3rd TE. 1 year of Leach for goalline worth losing a Furstenburg who could be our 2nd TE next year? I personally just dont see the value in wasting another spot on position we already were phasing out before we had Caldwell calling it.

    whats the point in having the best at a position if hes on the sideline 60%+ (assuming hes not splitting time with Juice)?
    Last edited by JAB1985; 07-25-2013 at 09:23 AM.
    -JAB




  10. #334
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    over by the dental floss bush
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    12,910
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    Re: Goodbye Vonta Leach

    Leach is the chiropractor. He can spring a play that makes the difference in the outcome.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  11. #335
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Arbutus
    Posts
    1,072

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Well i think our main difference here is that you feel Juice is going to miss blocks while im assuming hes coached to know his assignments. Because Leach is great at finishing blocks doesnt mean that a FB has to decleat a LB to effectively block said LB. Thats also not saying Juice doesnt have that same ability either as were yet to see it. That ability to put a LB on his ass may be what separates him from average but at the end of the day I dont see the value in it because im figuring Juice to be able to effectively block regardless. The 4-5 blocks also isnt taking into account what plays Juice could have end up as TDs as well. its possible that what Juice offers in the passing game and being a duel threat mitigates those points (-4/5 goalline vs +4/5 passing). which means theres little to no value in adding him when taking into account that another player will be lost at a position well more likely need than 2 FBs.
    Juice looks like he was a great pick, but he has yet to play a down in the NFL. Bringing Leach on the field may telegraph the O's intentions, especially in short yardage situations. However, sometimes you want to be able to do something, even when the defense knows what you're doing. Picking up short yards, running the ball down people's throat whether they tried to stop it or not, these are things we did in the past that broke teams spirit and we need that element in this division.




  12. #336
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Arbutus
    Posts
    1,072

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    To add, having all the high flying, high octane passing weapons in the world are great in domes and when there's nice weather, but in the AFC North there is one certainty in your football season:

    Winter is Coming!





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