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  1. #25
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    Re: No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore



    so PFT released their picks for Ravens...

    Florio: Ogden, Newsome, Ray, FLACCO
    PFT Readers: Ogden, Newsome, Ray, Reed

    Florio's reasoning is that because Flacco's arrival sparked a 5 year straight playoff run culminating in a SB win, he deserves a spot.

    If you check in a couple years, I might agree with that. Right now, I think you put Reed, as a future HOF, on it over Flacco.
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    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




  2. #26
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    Re: No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore

    Ravens Mt Rushmore to me would be players or leadership who made a significant impact, and who retired a Raven. In that case, for me, I would be:
    Ogden, Ray, Stover, Newsome. ( Would put Flacco in Newsome's place if he retires a Raven ) Just my .02 cents.




  3. #27

    Re: No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore

    So Florio had a poll to see who the fans would pick, then summarily ignored it (and his co-host) to pick his own 4 guys?

    What was the point?

    The Ravens have 3 sure-fire HOFers, and a guy who would likely get in as a GM, if he wasn't already there as a player.

    All due respect to the others mentioned, this is a no-brainer (IMHO, YMMV)




  4. #28
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    Re: No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    So Florio had a poll to see who the fans would pick, then summarily ignored it to pick his own 4 guys?

    What was the point?
    That's how they've done all of them. Basically, he makes the "PFT Team" picks so put the graphic up, then posts if the readers agreed or who they picked. I just put more stake in the PFT Planet picks, they seems to be more on the money.

    I guess it was a safeguard to make sure spammers didn't stuff the ballot box, idk?
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    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




  5. #29

    Re: No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore

    I'm not picking on anyone that thinks Stover belongs, but I just don't get it....

    I've met Matt a bunch a times, and had conversations with him. Super nice guy. Big fan of his. He is one of the all time Raven greats. But in terms of Face of the Franchise for the Ravens who have been superb in their 17 years ... No way. He is still only a Kicker.

    The difference between Matt and your standard run of mill guy was about 3-4 kicks/yr inside the 40. Honestly, is that a transcendental type player? Outside the 40, Matt was pretty average (outside 45 -- I'd say below). The big factor was the Ravens offense was so shitty inside the 25, that they had to kick FGs all the time. And Matt was steady and reliable. But again Matt was slightly more reliable than your average NFL kicker. If a kicker is gonna make your FotF list, he better have made multiple Adam Vinatieri type clutch kicks in the playoffs. Matt made 2 --- 2009 Div against Titans, and the 47yd in SB35 (if you wanna include the 51yder in the Colts 2007 Div Lost... that was clutch too). I remember the misses too. The 36yd gimme against the Raiders in the 2001 AFCC, and he also missed a 41yder in SB35.

    My Face of the Franchise... Ray, JO, Oz, and Reed (right now). If Joe plays 8 more years and wins another SB, he'll take Ed's place.




  6. #30

    Re: No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    I'm not picking on anyone that thinks Stover belongs, but I just don't get it....

    I've met Matt a bunch a times, and had conversations with him. Super nice guy. Big fan of his. He is one of the all time Raven greats. But in terms of Face of the Franchise for the Ravens who have been superb in their 17 years ... No way. He is still only a Kicker.

    The difference between Matt and your standard run of mill guy was about 3-4 kicks/yr inside the 40. Honestly, is that a transcendental type player? Outside the 40, Matt was pretty average (outside 45 -- I'd say below). The big factor was the Ravens offense was so shitty inside the 25, that they had to kick FGs all the time. And Matt was steady and reliable. But again Matt was slightly more reliable than your average NFL kicker. If a kicker is gonna make your FotF list, he better have made multiple Adam Vinatieri type clutch kicks in the playoffs. Matt made 2 --- 2009 Div against Titans, and the 47yd in SB35 (if you wanna include the 51yder in the Colts 2007 Div Lost... that was clutch too). I remember the misses too. The 36yd gimme against the Raiders in the 2001 AFCC, and he also missed a 41yder in SB35.

    My Face of the Franchise... Ray, JO, Oz, and Reed (right now). If Joe plays 8 more years and wins another SB, he'll take Ed's place.
    I totally agree with the stover assessment plus that defense gave them good field position. I would say Reed, Lewis, Oj n Oz

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  7. #31
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    Re: No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore

    1st Mountain: Ray, Ogden, Reed, Newsome

    2nd Mountain: Flacco, Jamal, Suggs, Harbaugh

    3rd Mountain: Modell, McAllister, Ngata, Boulware

    4th Mountain: Stover, Gregg, Heap, Rice

    5th Mountain: Thomas, Johnson, Burnett, McCrary




  8. #32
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    Re: No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    I'm not picking on anyone that thinks Stover belongs, but I just don't get it....

    I've met Matt a bunch a times, and had conversations with him. Super nice guy. Big fan of his. He is one of the all time Raven greats. But in terms of Face of the Franchise for the Ravens who have been superb in their 17 years ... No way. He is still only a Kicker.

    The difference between Matt and your standard run of mill guy was about 3-4 kicks/yr inside the 40. Honestly, is that a transcendental type player? Outside the 40, Matt was pretty average (outside 45 -- I'd say below). The big factor was the Ravens offense was so shitty inside the 25, that they had to kick FGs all the time. And Matt was steady and reliable. But again Matt was slightly more reliable than your average NFL kicker. If a kicker is gonna make your FotF list, he better have made multiple Adam Vinatieri type clutch kicks in the playoffs. Matt made 2 --- 2009 Div against Titans, and the 47yd in SB35 (if you wanna include the 51yder in the Colts 2007 Div Lost... that was clutch too). I remember the misses too. The 36yd gimme against the Raiders in the 2001 AFCC, and he also missed a 41yder in SB35.

    My Face of the Franchise... Ray, JO, Oz, and Reed (right now). If Joe plays 8 more years and wins another SB, he'll take Ed's place.
    To me it's because they would've never won the first SB without Stover. There were several games where he scored every point. I know it took Jamal Lewis and company to get in position and the defense was the true difference maker that year; but Stover was the whole offense for some games. You could say this for several years but in that year it helped them go all the way. But I get that some don't want to put a kicker on the list.

    see sig
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  9. #33

    Re: No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    To me it's because they would've never won the first SB without Stover. There were several games where he scored every point. I know it took Jamal Lewis and company to get in position and the defense was the true difference maker that year; but Stover was the whole offense for some games. You could say this for several years but in that year it helped them go all the way. But I get that some don't want to put a kicker on the list.

    see sig
    Not that I want to dispel the fact that Matt was important to the 2000 SB run, he was... but I'm convinced we would have won the SB even without Matt and had an average kicker. Hell even Billy Cundiff. By the way, Matt was 7th in FG % in 2000, so he wasn't the best.

    At absolute worst, the difference between a good kicker, Matt Stover in 2000, and a bad one, would be a max of 1-2 FGs/game. The only regular season games the score differential was 3-6 pts were the 1st Jags 39-36, 2nd Jags 15-10, & 2nd Titans 24-23. In the 1st one... Matt only attempted 1 a 44yder while Mike Hollis went 5 for 5. I'm gonna bet any NFL quality kicker could make a 44yd at home in perfect weather so that's a W. The 2nd Jags game...Matt went 5 for 5, 3 inside 35, & a 43yder & a 47yder. So I'd say the run of mill guy goes 4 for 5. Still we'd win. The 2nd Titans game, even though Matt only made a 45yder... I'm gonna assume a Cundiff type missed it and the Ravens ultimately lose that game (and that's a big assumption). So the Ravens end up 11-5 with a crappy kicker. We'd tie the Broncos. I don't know what the tiebreaker would be since they'd have the same conference record, so again worst case, assume we'd have to go to Denver to beat the Gus Frerotte led Broncos. We would have won that game in Denver too. We would have then beat the Titans, then the Raiders, and then the Giants all with an average kicker (even a crappy one)
    Last edited by ravensnhokies; 06-29-2013 at 12:41 PM.




  10. #34

    Re: No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by ursula View Post
    1st Mountain: Ray, Ogden, Reed, Newsome

    2nd Mountain: Flacco, Jamal, Suggs, Harbaugh

    3rd Mountain: Modell, McAllister, Ngata, Boulware

    4th Mountain: Stover, Gregg, Heap, Rice

    5th Mountain: Thomas, Johnson, Burnett, McCrary
    I'd throw Billick in there somewhere, but other than that I agree

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  11. #35

    Re: No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore

    Does the fact that Stover was not homegrown play a role in the thinking of some (Just throwing that out there to spark debate)?
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  12. #36
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    Re: No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Does the fact that Stover was not homegrown play a role in the thinking of some (Just throwing that out there to spark debate)?
    I think it's more the fact that he's a kicker, honestly. He deserves due respect for a couple things:

    1. Long tenured Raven
    2. One of the best at his position
    3. Very upstanding guy
    4. Our "lifeboat" during the lean offense years

    But, is he going to the HOF as a kicker? No. That's because the league doesn't place a premium on kickers. In the HOF, there are 10 guys listed as kickers. 9 of them also played other positions in their careers. The last two kickers were selected in 2011...and 1991. A gap of 20 years. Morten Andersen, who holds the NFL record for most field goals in a career, was a semi-finalist this year, but did not make the cut to 15.

    I think kickers are just viewed as guys who aren't going to be the cornerstone of your franchise. To me, Stover is an honorable mention guy. I hold him in VERY high regard for his leadership, his performance, and his character. But if you are putting out the guys who represent your whole franchise, kicker just doesn't seem to make much sense when you have one HOF, 2 guys destined for HOF, a RB who gained the 3rd most yards in a single season, a SB winning QB who has the most road playoff wins ever and is among tops for wins in his first 5 years...If this was players only, Stover comes a lot closer to making it. But if you include non-players, I'd have to value Newsome, Modell, Bisciotti above him. In a few years, hopefully, Harbaugh would also be on that list as well.
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    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




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