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  1. #277

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial



    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    I feel you on that ak, I really do. But that's no reason to convict someone. We have to be better than. If their had been stronger evidence and the prosecution did a better job,we might be seeing a different verdict. If anyone in this country should want a fair trail is the black community. Many blacks have been and still are wrongfully convicted in this country...we should hold our justice system to a higher standard so that justice can be served for the weak, innocent and wrongfully accused.

    This verdict doesn't sit right with me. But I saw it coming from day one because of the lack of evidence.
    Agree on everything 100%. I wasn't saying GZ should've been convicted because of the long and sad history of racial injustice in America. No innocent person should go to jail for that. I was really solely saying that the communities of color in the nation are probably feeling a special kind of pain right now. (Also agree the evidence wasn't quite there. Curious and circumstantial, but not damning.)




  2. #278
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    It gets back to the fact that we are only getting one side of the story. I mean the scenario you went through is entirely conjuncture based on what Zimmerman said.

    I certainly don't agree that your scenario is the most plausible either. The entire "confrontation" aspect of this is not based on facts at all. It's based on conjuncture as the only other witness is dead.

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    Thank you! No one knows how the confrontation and/or fight started. And to base your opinion of innocence or not on that conjuncture is absurd.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  3. #279
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by akashicrecorder View Post
    Oh, right. The bashed skull that had two or three scratches.

    That deserved a bullet through the heart.
    In all 50 states, you don't have to wait until your skull is actually bashed to employ deadly force.

    You only have to fear your skull is *about* to be bashed.

    Same standard applies to police officers.

    Once his head hit once off the pavement, that's all he needed under the letter of the law since it shows intent. The "scratches" are irrelevant.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  4. #280
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Which then begs the question, do we throw a man into prison because we think he may be lying, but we can't prove it in a court of law?
    No we don't.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  5. #281

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    It gets back to the fact that we are only getting one side of the story. I mean the scenario you went through is entirely conjuncture based on what Zimmerman said.

    I certainly don't agree that your scenario is the most plausible either. The entire "confrontation" aspect of this is not based on facts at all. It's based on conjuncture as the only other witness is dead.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    No. And that is my point. It is a fact, not conjecture, that Martin was within yards of where he turned the corner 4 minutes after he turned the corner.

    Now we can use conjecture as to why he waited around. He was suddenly paralyzed with fear, for example. He tripped and fell hit his head and blacked out for a few minutes. But I don't see how anything is more plausible than, he wanted a confrontation.

    If you are being followed and then turn the corner and decide to stop and wait for the follower, are you not most likely looking for a confrontation? And again, I am not talking fistfight, but simply a 'confrontation,' including verbal, including possibly amicable and short-lived confrontation until everyone goes their way.




  6. #282
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by akashicrecorder View Post
    Haha, OK. Clearly I have butthurt you about something in the past. Hopefully you get over it and learn how to have a conversation.
    My point was. The things I mentioned are why we knew about this case. The reason we wouldn't have known about it if it were the other way around is because those things wouldn't have happened.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #283
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by akashicrecorder View Post
    Agree on everything 100%. I wasn't saying GZ should've been convicted because of the long and sad history of racial injustice in America. No innocent person should go to jail for that. I was really solely saying that the communities of color in the nation are probably feeling a special kind of pain right now. (Also agree the evidence wasn't quite there. Curious and circumstantial, but not damning.)
    Yep I'm feeling all kinds of upset and sadden over this (German beer is not helping).

    Also do people not understand how people of color might be upset with this verdict?
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  8. #284

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    In all 50 states, you don't have to wait until your skull is actually bashed to employ deadly force.

    You only have to fear your skull is *about* to be bashed.
    Agree. But the peculiarity of it is that if your skull is bashed or about to be bashed as the result of situation that you initiated, self-defense goes out the window. (I already said earlier that I/we don't know who started the physicality of the encounter. The incident in totality, though, was started by GZ when he started trailing.)


    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    You are attacked at night. Someone punches you in the nose, stunning you and making you disoriented, they then hop on top of you punching and trying to punch you .

    You scream for help for 40 + seconds, one person comes out, says stop, they don't stop, that one person turns around and goes inside.
    Well, isn't that a neat little story of how it all transpired! Really, though, no one knows who was on top or who was screaming. To answer your hypothetical, of course I wouldn't take that beating, but your question assumes/implies that was how it happened that night, which is probably a mistake to do since no one truly knows.




  9. #285
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by akashicrecorder View Post
    Well, isn't that a neat little story of how it all transpired! Really, though, no one knows who was on top or who was screaming. To answer your hypothetical, of course I wouldn't take that beating, but your question assumes/implies that was how it happened that night, which is probably a mistake to do since no one truly knows.
    I agree that assumes what happens that night (which the evidence supports as one of if not the most likely outcome) but you're avoiding the question of what would you do.

    So assuming that is what happened, what would you have done?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  10. #286
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    No. And that is my point. It is a fact, not conjecture, that Martin was within yards of where he turned the corner 4 minutes after he turned the corner.

    Now we can use conjecture as to why he waited around. He was suddenly paralyzed with fear, for example. He tripped and fell hit his head and blacked out for a few minutes. But I don't see how anything is more plausible than, he wanted a confrontation.

    If you are being followed and then turn the corner and decide to stop and wait for the follower, are you not most likely looking for a confrontation? And again, I am not talking fistfight, but simply a 'confrontation,' including verbal, including possibly amicable and short-lived confrontation until everyone goes their way.
    But that is your opinion...based off conjecture to decide if a man is guilty or not. And then be 100% confident about it. Sounds like flawed logic to me. There are dozens of reasons as why Martin didn't go home...all equally plausible.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  11. #287

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Which then begs the question, do we throw a man into prison because we think he may be lying, but we can't prove it in a court of law?
    Fortunately for many, our system is designed in a way that would allow say...10 guilty people to "get off" in order to prevent a single truly innocent person to be found guilty.


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    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  12. #288
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by akashicrecorder View Post
    Agree. But the peculiarity of it is that if your skull is bashed or about to be bashed as the result of situation that you initiated, self-defense goes out the window. (I already said earlier that I/we don't know who started the physicality of the encounter. The incident in totality, though, was started by GZ when he started trailing.)
    No, it doesn't.

    Lets assume GZ "initiated" this (for the record, I don't believe he did). He still had a legal right to (1) be there, (2) follow Trayvon and (3) call the cops. None of those actions are illegal or negate a self defense claim.

    Speaking from an evidentiary standpoint, there's nothing to convict upon.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




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