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  1. #373

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial



    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    No, I actually show where the evidence corroborates. You seem to think there was no relevant evidence in the case. While there was not that much of it, and some of it was fairly questionable, none of it contradicts Zimmerman's main self-defense narrative, and most/all of it corroborates it.
    I dont think the evidence is definitive in support of his claim. you do so right there we arent going to agree.

    And as for you not wanting a guilty verdict, then I guess I am confused as to what you want or what we are arguing about. Are all the people that are "disappointed" in the verdict simply saying they are "disappointed" that there wasn't any evidence disproving Zimmerman's defense? And if so, why, if what really happened was Zimmerman acted in self-defense? Are you arguing that Zimmerman was guilty of the crime he was accused of but that there was not enough evidence to support a guilty verdict? If so, what "evidence" are you using to justify your feelings? Do you see what I am saying here?
    I think theres a difference in saying theres enough to suggest something different than what he says happened and entirely different to say that warrants a conviction. I dont think theres anything concrete but i feel the same about the defense. Again, if the defense had the burden, id be feeling the same way.

    No, I am not "doing the same thing as you." I am constraining myself to the limited evidence. It is not a matter of opinion that the dispatcher did not order Zimmerman to stay in his car. It is a fact. A fact verbalized by the dispatcher himself in official testimony; yet here you are saying that whether an order was given is debatable and a matter of opinion.
    I feel as though you are. I watched that testimony, did the dispatcher tell him to stop? no, because they do not instruct either way for legal reasons. He said, it was a suggestion for safety. Zimmerman said he took it as he was to stop. Its Zimmermans actions and perception of what was said that matters doesnt it?

    No one knows exactly how the incident played out. But we do know some things about how the incident played out, and the few relevant things we know corroborate Zimmerman's story. Like I said, people have to go way, way farther out of their way trying to claim Zimmerman was guilty of the crime he was accused of than the reverse. The question, to me, is why are people doing that? But I guess I don't care enough to keep this up.
    the first is true, the second is opinion.

    We can agree to be confused by each others' stances.
    Id like to leave it at that because frankly im tired of trying defend what we fundamentally disagree about, which is how strong the evidence was for either side.
    -JAB




  2. #374

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Id like to leave it at that because frankly im tired of trying defend what we fundamentally disagree about, which is how strong the evidence was for either side.
    There is no relevant evidence that contradicts Zimmerman's narrative. That really sums it up. None.

    And if you think there is, you haven't mentioned it.

    I have never talked about strength. I have talked about how you have none on your side, and the small the amount that exists supports (by not contradicting) Zimmerman's claim. Which means it is a farther reach (blind reach, really) to argue he is guilty.

    I agree though, no chance of any progress towards an agreement here, that much is clear.




  3. #375
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    I find this particularly relevant at times like this:

    "There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."*

    - Booker T. Washington
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  4. #376
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I cannot watch the news anymore.

    They are clearly going with the "Tell the Biggest Lie, the more People Will Believe It" approach to all of this. They are flat out lying about what was in evidence and what was not.
    Just like some posters in here. Doesn't matter what the evidence or lack thereof says, peoples
    minds are made up across the board even though the jury said there was no evidence to
    convict. Decided in about 16 hours.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




  5. #377
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    I find this particularly relevant at times like this:

    "There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."*

    - Booker T. Washington
    Great quote. If not for the business of racism Al Charlatan and the uh Rev-erend uh Jess-A Jack-A-Son would be unemployed.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  6. #378
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I cannot watch the news anymore.

    They are clearly going with the "Tell the Biggest Lie, the more People Will Believe It" approach to all of this. They are flat out lying about what was in evidence and what was not. They are willfully stocking the fans of race to get ratings at this point. Ad it doesn't matter the network -- Fox, CNN, MSNBC -- all of them are doing in some shape and form.
    It truely is sickening. I'm in media blackout mode.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  7. #379
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    I find this particularly relevant at times like this:

    "There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."*

    - Booker T. Washington
    Well said Booker T. Washington.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  8. #380

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    FYI, some of you would be really shocked to find out how little the black community respects the Sharptons and Jacksons.

    They aren't some pied pipers that we follow around...give us a little more credit here...we realize them for what they are.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  9. #381
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    I mentioned that the FBI already said there was no bias in case. Just learned they said it
    in a 12-page report and after interviewing 30 people. Yet, OBY has Holder investigaing it. I
    thought the FBI was part of the Justice Dept.

    Hannity's panel was hilarious with some distinguished and highly educated and well dressed
    panelists from both races arguing whether or not civil rights charges should be filed. Quite
    a heated argument and very entertaining.

    Someone said there's a difference between racism and bias. HUH??
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




  10. #382
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    FYI, some of you would be really shocked to find out how little the black community respects the Sharptons and Jacksons.

    They aren't some pied pipers that we follow around...give us a little more credit here...we realize them for what they are.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    I understand, but those two are only the poster boys there are many more.

    How about Tavis Smiley's comments:

    "Just another piece of evidence of the incontrovertible contempt that this nation often shows and displays for black men."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...#slide=2554392



    University of Penn. Religious professor Athea Butler, "I know that this American god ain’t my god. As a matter of fact, I think he’s a white racist god with a problem.”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...eligion-profe/


    I think you could make a case for the many black athletes who have done the same as well. Granted I am sure they feel intense sympathy for the Martin family, but what other intention could they have in making racial comments other than to bring attention to their twitter accounts and ultimately themselves?


    You could also include the entire NAACP for saying this trial was a race issue, when any attorney with even a modicum of judicial sense would recognize race had nothing to do with this trial.
    Last edited by Sirdowski; 07-17-2013 at 06:57 AM.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  11. #383

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    FYI, some of you would be really shocked to find out how little the black community respects the Sharptons and Jacksons.

    They aren't some pied pipers that we follow around...give us a little more credit here...we realize them for what they are.
    I appreciate that. Truly.

    However, my problem (and the below is my problem in general, not with you personally, RW) with this whole sordid affair is how race was injected into it (by the media, by the race-hustlers, by the Martin family's attorneys, all of the above) where there was zero evidence it had anything to do with the issue at hand. Given the conditions (rain, darkness, Martin with his hood up) there is a good chance one or both didn't even know the race of the other. Hell, Zimmerman isn't even "white", if he is, then so is Obama by that definition.

    But there it was, front and center, in our face, 24-hours a day. I am all for having an honest discussion on racism in this country, but the amount of energy, and frankly ill-will that was heaped on this one incident really did a disservice to all sides of that topic, imo.

    Do we want to discuss SYG laws (even though that was not material in this case)? I am all for a thorough review of the legal uses of deadly force by citizens....and police for that matter...and the president for that matter (see, Drones). Sure, let's have THAT conversation.

    Do we want to discuss the "reasonable doubt" standard with regards to defendants when the state really doesn't produce material evidence supporting their charges? Sure, let's have THAT conversation, too, but be careful what you wish for, because any lowering of that standard will come down massively on the minority that is already getting the short-end of the "justice process" in America. Or perhaps we think a 90% conviction rate is too low?

    And while we are on that topic, let's talk about how Zimmerman got access to best lawyers money could by...without it, whether he thought he was guilty or not, he probably would have plea-bargained down to the manslaughter charge to avoid serious time. Gee, what defendants in society don't have access to that type of legal help? And some what to make it harder to defend themselves in court.

    There were probably many other factors that could have been reasonably debated as a society in this case, yet we found ourselves at the lowest level, again. Shocking.
    Last edited by JohnBKistler; 07-17-2013 at 10:49 AM.




  12. #384
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    FYI, some of you would be really shocked to find out how little the black community respects the Sharptons and Jacksons.
    Calypso Louie too aka Louis Farrakhan?

    Not sure I'd agree about Jessie who earns a ton of money as head of the Rainbow
    Coalition. I saw it for myself when I worked at Social Security on Green Street and he
    spoke at a rally outside the steps.

    There were hundreds of people there, mostly minorities that worshipped him. He's a
    big dude.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




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