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  1. #37

    Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfish View Post
    We don't have the personnel to match Atlanta in the passing game. They designed their offense to play in the dome. But they were also 29th in the league for rushing. We'll be more balanced.
    And my whole point IS that the Ravens don't have the personnel to match Atlanta in the passing game. And even WITH that, AND playing in a dome, Joe's stats, when compared to Ryan's, are not all that different. And Joe blows Ryan away in the post season. Yet people still rag on Joe. It's insane.




  2. #38
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    Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    I am happy to see that there can be a positive spin on the story of the demise our passing game. Highly optimistic to see the coach and OL overcoming the loss of our two best receivers ---- thanks for making me smile this morning!

    Here's hoping that Ray Rice's little legs are up to the challenge.
    Same thing you said when Mason and Heap left.

    Yet we keep on winning games with a balanced attack that doesn't lean too much on run or pass.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  3. #39
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    Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Same thing you said when Mason and Heap left.

    Yet we keep on winning games with a balanced attack that doesn't lean too much on run or pass.
    Yeah imagine that. Guys retire get traded leave via free agency and believe it or not! Someone steps up and plays well in that spot. Whoddathunkit.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  4. #40
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    Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Yeah imagine that. Guys retire get traded leave via free agency and believe it or not! Someone steps up and plays well in that spot. Whoddathunkit.
    It's almost as if we have a guy or two who's only job is to stock the team with talent. The rest of the league should really copy that concept, I always feel bad when I see a team come to town with only 22 players.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  5. #41
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    Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    It's almost as if we have a guy or two who's only job is to stock the team with talent. The rest of the league should really copy that concept, I always feel bad when I see a team come to town with only 22 players.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  6. #42

    Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.

    I think some are really overestimating how difficult it will be for this year's passing offense to be an improvement over last year's (Regular Season).
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  7. #43

    Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    You can stop beating the horse because your point is not a good one, unfortunately. Boldin's numbers don't seem so great without any context, so let's contextualize them. Bare volume numbers on their own don't tell the whole story.

    Sure he only caught 65 passes last year, which doesn't sound great, but Flacco only completed 317 passes--15th in the league. Boldin's reception total is 20% of the team reception total. His 921 yards were 24% of the team total. That's right on par with a low-end WR1, especially considering his depth of target and yards per catch were a lot higher than many other WR1s in the league. Add in Pitta's 20% of team receptions and 17.5% of team yards and you're talking about a passing game that has lost 40% effectiveness on the whole.

    I'm confident the passing offense won't ACTUALLY lose 40% effectiveness, but that is a HUGE hit. FWIW, Calvin Johnson was less than 40% of the Lions' passing game last year. Julio Jones and Tony Gonzalez were just over 40% of the Falcons' passing game last year. When controlled for the Ravens' historically low VOLUME passing the ball, losing Boldin and Pitta are exactly what they sound like--losing your #1 WR and your top-tier TE.
    They didn't lose the opportunity on the field. Someone else is going to replace those numbers from both the WR and TE positions. It is absurd to think that there aren't guys on this roster that can duplicate that level of play. Neither guy was elite, and the Ravens FO is one of the top 3 talent evaluators in the league, so ou can try and invalidate my point, I will let the season play out and one of us will be proven wrong.




  8. #44

    Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I agree. Eli Manning turned Steve Smith, Mario Manningham and Kevin Boss into good starting pass catchers. In fact they've now had 3 different Tight Ends in 3 years with big numbers. The only constant is Manning. Joe Flacco is being paid to do the same thing. At least 1 of those guys is going to have a ton of balls thrown his way and is going to step up.

    Yup and do you really think that guys like James Jones, Randall Cobb, Lance Moore, Marques Colston, etc. would be anything without playing with the QBs with whom they play? Go back to the old Colts teams with guys like Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon making plays. And you nailed it with the Eli Manning comp. Kevin Boss, Jake Ballard, Martellus Bennett, Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, etc.

    Not saying that a handful of these guys wouldn't succeed in any circumstance but the truth is they were all products of their QB. If Joe is truly worth his contract than not having 4 pro bowlers to throw to shouldn't matter much.




  9. #45
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    Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensNTerps View Post
    Yup and do you really think that guys like James Jones, Randall Cobb, Lance Moore, Marques Colston, etc. would be anything without playing with the QBs with whom they play? Go back to the old Colts teams with guys like Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon making plays. And you nailed it with the Eli Manning comp. Kevin Boss, Jake Ballard, Martellus Bennett, Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, etc.

    Not saying that a handful of these guys wouldn't succeed in any circumstance but the truth is they were all products of their QB. If Joe is truly worth his contract than not having 4 pro bowlers to throw to shouldn't matter much.
    I'm curious, how exactly do you make your determination that a player was a product of their QB?

    Let's take a guy like Austin Collie... is he a product of his QB just because he was a 4th round pick? Can you not just be a good player on your own merit if you weren't an early round draft pick? Or is it because he hasn't done much since Peyton Manning left town? But that's irrelevant, because the real reason he hasn't performed of late is due to his bad injury issues. But how does that imply that he wasn't just a good receiver when his numbers were good? What are the criteria here?

    Is Torrey Smith a product of Joe Flacco? He was taken at the bottom of the 2nd round, almost a 3rd round pick. He wasn't exactly a high draft pick. And yet he is putting up some great numbers. Maybe we can say Joe Flacco has already done what you say great QB's do, he has made a receiver out of Torrey Smith? Who can say? What is the distinction, what are the rules, what makes a receiver a good player vs a product of the QB?

    It all seems so arbitrary.

    What about a guy like Travis Taylor? He was an early draft pick (10th overall). He didn't do much in his career. He averaged about 40 yards per game with us over 5 seasons. For comparison, Torrey Smith has been averaging over 50 yards per game with us over his first 2 seasons. Taylor's best season for us was 869 yards and 6 TDs. Besides that, he never had more than 3 touchdowns in a season, and never had more than 632 yards. Torrey Smith already has 2 800+ yard seasons and two 7+ TD seasons. In 2 years, he has 2 better seasons than Taylor's best.

    OK... The QB's Taylor had throwing to him were: Tony Banks, Trent Dilfer, Elvis Grbac, Chris Redman, Jeff Blake, Anthony Wright, and Kyle Boller.

    OK, so with that cast of characters throwing the ball, he didn't accomplish much. Are you going to blame him, or the fact that he didn't have a good quarterback to get the ball to him?

    But what if he was drafted into Green Bay and had Brett Favre throwing him the ball?

    Let's say he had the same numbers as he did in Baltimore... Is he just a bust? Or did Favre not do his job to get the ball to him?

    Let's say he had much better numbers and was very successful with Favre as his QB. Not knowing that he would be a failure with Baltimore's QBs throwing the ball to him, do you consider him just a great receiver that Green Bay drafted high to get a weapon for Favre... or is he a product of Favre? A high draft pick that pans out and plays well... with a great QB throwing the ball to him... product of the QB, or just a good player?

    Do you see what I'm getting at?

    The only FACTS are that a player either does his job, gets open, and catches the ball when it comes to him... or he doesn't.




  10. #46

    Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensNTerps View Post
    Yup and do you really think that guys like James Jones, Randall Cobb, Lance Moore, Marques Colston, etc. would be anything without playing with the QBs with whom they play? Go back to the old Colts teams with guys like Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon making plays. And you nailed it with the Eli Manning comp. Kevin Boss, Jake Ballard, Martellus Bennett, Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, etc.

    Not saying that a handful of these guys wouldn't succeed in any circumstance but the truth is they were all products of their QB. If Joe is truly worth his contract than not having 4 pro bowlers to throw to shouldn't matter much.
    Couple of things on the Giants. The Giants offense struggled in 2006 despite have a ton a of talent. The Giants fired Hufnagel and promoted Gilbride. That coincided with Eli Manning taking off. So is it Gilbride who has made the receivers successful or Manning? Quarterbacks cannot get wide receivers open. Very few receivers have god given ability that allows them to get separation consistently. It is really about what the OC does to get the receiver open. GB and the Giants have some of the best OCs in the business. In Cam's offense the wrs had to be able to get open on their own. There was no creativity. Caldwell is going to have to put the young guys in a position to succeed. It does not mean that they will be pro bowl players but they are not being asked to replace pro bowlers.




  11. #47

    Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by srobert96 View Post
    Couple of things on the Giants. The Giants offense struggled in 2006 despite have a ton a of talent. The Giants fired Hufnagel and promoted Gilbride. That coincided with Eli Manning taking off. So is it Gilbride who has made the receivers successful or Manning? Quarterbacks cannot get wide receivers open. Very few receivers have god given ability that allows them to get separation consistently. It is really about what the OC does to get the receiver open. GB and the Giants have some of the best OCs in the business. In Cam's offense the wrs had to be able to get open on their own. There was no creativity. Caldwell is going to have to put the young guys in a position to succeed. It does not mean that they will be pro bowl players but they are not being asked to replace pro bowlers.
    Very true.




  12. #48

    Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by srobert96 View Post
    Couple of things on the Giants. The Giants offense struggled in 2006 despite have a ton a of talent.
    Joe has drawn a lot of comparisons to Eli. It's a fair comparison since both teams have balanced offenses. Excluding Manning's first year (since it was only 7 starts and he went 1-6), Manning's passing totals for years 2 through 6 was 17,401 to Joe's years 1 through 5 at 17,633. Comparable numbers with the edge going to Joe, especially considering Manning's rookie year was excluded. During the post season Joe has no equal.

    Ryan has the weapons in the passing game, but he also has the 29th rushing offense last year. The Falcons designed a throwing offense, and in the salary cap era have spent over 60% of that on offense, the result is a porous defense. The Ravens have always spent more on defense and as a result are a much better defense. Ryan is going to throw a lot because he has to, they need to outscore the other offense. The Ravens are going to run, and that will open up things in the passing game since defenses will be forced to stack the box to slow the running game. The game has evolved and defenses concentrate on defending the pass. A powerful running game can exploit this trend. It's silly to compare passing totals between the 2 of them with such different team philosophies. I'm not predicting Atlanta is going to the Super Bowl, but if they make it this year they will have to play in frigid New York in February. Not ideal for a team built to play in a dome.

    You have to dismiss just how good Joe is and has been early in his career to see the sky falling. He's never had elite talent at WR yet has been the most successful post season quarterback in the league during his first 5 years. The training wheels were removed in the playoffs last year and we got a glimpse of things to come. To me the key is giving him time in the pocket and an effective running game that keeps the opposing defense guessing, both of which appears to be present now.




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