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  1. #25
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    Re: Bradley Manning Verdict



    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    So, if you are in the military, and you are given orders that you think go directly against the Constitution...do you "bear allegiance" to the officer(s) that have given you your orders, or to the Constitution you have sworn to defend?
    Yes. All the way up to and including the President.

    There's a process in place if you feel an order is immoral. Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen are sworn to protect Democracy, not practice it.

    Id also add that when Manning with through MEPS, he was told all of this dozens of times prior to him signing his contract.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #26
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    Re: Bradley Manning Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Here's one...this one doesn't deal with national security secrets, but it is symbolic of how the Obama Administration handles whistleblowers. I will go find some more...just a few...

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...677_story.html

    Here's another that talks about many of these people...many of them tried to "do it the right way"...it is easy to see why some may choose the way that Snowden or Manning did.

    http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...cy-apple-store

    Here's another that talks about the misleading protections that the Obama administration has claimed are there for whistleblowers to "do it the right way."

    http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...licy-directive

    To be clear, I am not in favor of the way Manning exposed what he thought were government misdeeds: dumping documents and files on to WikiLeaks indiscriminately certainly may have endangered lives.

    Snowden on the other hand seemed to be more discriminating in the information he released, and contrary to government claims, no one has been able to make the case he directly but anyone's life in danger.

    But if all whistleblowers are treated the same, with the full force of the US government (and their allies) trying to basically crush their lives, you certainly can't expect people to report abuses via the official channels and you can expect more of type of leaks like Snowden and Manning.
    Totally understand that. But if Manning at least tried to go through official channels first. If he tried to do it the right way and the military/government cock blocked every which way...and he still felt compelled enough to share this information with the American public and then release it the way he did...I would have alot more respect for and possibly laud Manning.

    As it stands all he did was walk into the SCIF he worked, copy random files from SIPRNET and release it to Wikileaks. I was still active duty at the time, and my coworkers and I (all holding TS clearances and worked in SCIFs) felt he was a young kid looking for his 15 minutes and didn't think through the ramifications of his actions.

    I take my clearance very seriously. The government has put in me a large trust that I will work with classified information and not reveal it. In 12+ plus years working in a classified environment I have yet to come across information that I feel the general public needs to be aware of.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  3. #27
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    Re: Bradley Manning Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    Totally understand that. But if Manning at least tried to go through official channels first. If he tried to do it the right way and the military/government cock blocked every which way...and he still felt compelled enough to share this information with the American public and then release it the way he did...I would have alot more respect for and possibly laud Manning.

    As it stands all he did was walk into the SCIF he worked, copy random files from SIPRNET and release it to Wikileaks. I was still active duty at the time, and my coworkers and I (all holding TS clearances and worked in SCIFs) felt he was a young kid looking for his 15 minutes and didn't think through the ramifications of his actions.

    I take my clearance very seriously. The government has put in me a large trust that I will work with classified information and not reveal it. In 12+ plus years working in a classified environment I have yet to come across information that I feel the general public needs to be aware of.
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  4. #28

    Re: Bradley Manning Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    Totally understand that. But if Manning at least tried to go through official channels first. If he tried to do it the right way and the military/government cock blocked every which way...and he still felt compelled enough to share this information with the American public and then release it the way he did...I would have alot more respect for and possibly laud Manning.

    As it stands all he did was walk into the SCIF he worked, copy random files from SIPRNET and release it to Wikileaks. I was still active duty at the time, and my coworkers and I (all holding TS clearances and worked in SCIFs) felt he was a young kid looking for his 15 minutes and didn't think through the ramifications of his actions.

    I take my clearance very seriously. The government has put in me a large trust that I will work with classified information and not reveal it. In 12+ plus years working in a classified environment I have yet to come across information that I feel the general public needs to be aware of.
    Dade. Totally understand. And while I don't work with TOP Secret info, I do deal with sensitive info and take that responsibility seriously, as well.

    Of all the whistleblowers that have come to light over the last few years, I am most uncomfortable with the way Manning disclosed the information.




  5. #29

    Re: Bradley Manning Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Dade. Totally understand. And while I don't work with TOP Secret info, I do deal with sensitive info and take that responsibility seriously, as well.

    Of all the whistleblowers that have come to light over the last few years, I am most uncomfortable with the way Manning disclosed the information.
    It isn't just the way he revealed the information, imo. It is that virtually none of it even deserved to be released at all. He wasn't "blowing the whistle" on anything substantial; he was simply exposing secrets.

    I don't see anything that is clearly illegal or unconstitutional. Spying on foreigners, no. Leaning on allies, no. Supporting dubious regimes while holding your nose, no. Collateral damage in wars, no. "Hints of corruption and bribes" regarding Boeing, maybe, but "hints" doesn't sound like proof, nor does that miniscule issue warrant dumping as many damaging secrets as possible to Assange.

    You also have to realize that Manning almost assuredly has gotten innocent, honorable people killed by releasing these files. These files exposed many foreigners who were secretly helping the US against their own ruthless countrymen while living in a very hostile environment. His buddy, Assange, when asked about Afghan informants being killed after being exposed by the release of the classified information: "They're informants... if they get killed, they deserve it." Despicable. Assange is rooting for the Taliban, make no mistake about it. And Manning naively hitched his wagon to this clown.

    I see zero honor in Manning's actions. And I would feel the same way if he raised internal stinks, was rebuffed, resigned his commission, and released the files. Disapproving of foreign policy is not a just cause to expose classified information, especially if innocent people are going to die as a result of the release. The whistleblower hurdle is massively higher, imo, and it wasn't close to being met with 98% of what was released.
    Last edited by Haloti92; 08-22-2013 at 11:25 AM.




  6. #30
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    Re: Bradley Manning Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    It isn't just the way he revealed the information, imo. It is that virtually none of it even deserved to be released at all. He wasn't "blowing the whistle" on anything substantial; he was simply exposing secrets.

    I don't see anything that is clearly illegal or unconstitutional. Spying on foreigners, no. Leaning on allies, no. Supporting dubious regimes while holding your nose, no. Collateral damage in wars, no. "Hints of corruption and bribes" regarding Boeing, maybe, but "hints" doesn't sound like proof, nor does that miniscule issue warrant dumping as many damaging secrets as possible to Assange.

    You also have to realize that Manning almost assuredly has gotten innocent, honorable people killed by releasing these files. These files exposed many foreigners who were secretly helping the US against their own ruthless countrymen while living in a very hostile environment. His buddy, Assange, when asked about Afghan informants being killed after being exposed by the release of the classified information: "They're informants... if they get killed, they deserve it." Despicable. Assange is rooting for the Taliban, make no mistake about it. And Manning naively hitched his wagon to this clown.

    I see zero honor in Manning's actions. And I would feel the same way if he raised internal stinks, was rebuffed, resigned his commission, and released the files. Disapproving of foreign policy is not a just cause to expose classified information, especially if innocent people are going to die as a result of the release. The whistleblower hurdle is massively higher, imo, and it wasn't close to being met with 98% of what was released.
    Good post.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger


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  7. #31
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    Re: Bradley Manning Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    It isn't just the way he revealed the information, imo. It is that virtually none of it even deserved to be released at all. He wasn't "blowing the whistle" on anything substantial; he was simply exposing secrets.

    I don't see anything that is clearly illegal or unconstitutional. Spying on foreigners, no. Leaning on allies, no. Supporting dubious regimes while holding your nose, no. Collateral damage in wars, no. "Hints of corruption and bribes" regarding Boeing, maybe, but "hints" doesn't sound like proof, nor does that miniscule issue warrant dumping as many damaging secrets as possible to Assange.

    You also have to realize that Manning almost assuredly has gotten innocent, honorable people killed by releasing these files. These files exposed many foreigners who were secretly helping the US against their own ruthless countrymen while living in a very hostile environment. His buddy, Assange, when asked about Afghan informants being killed after being exposed by the release of the classified information: "They're informants... if they get killed, they deserve it." Despicable. Assange is rooting for the Taliban, make no mistake about it. And Manning naively hitched his wagon to this clown.

    I see zero honor in Manning's actions. And I would feel the same way if he raised internal stinks, was rebuffed, resigned his commission, and released the files. Disapproving of foreign policy is not a just cause to expose classified information, especially if innocent people are going to die as a result of the release. The whistleblower hurdle is massively higher, imo, and it wasn't close to being met with 98% of what was released.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  8. #32

    Re: Bradley Manning Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Reviewing the information Manning released doesn't make me very proud to be an American.

    Are we shooting the messenger?

    http://gregmitchellwriter.blogspot.c...t-manning.html
    First, just a very partial list from "Cablegate" (keep in mind, this does not include many other bombshells that caused a stir in smaller nations abroad):

    -Details on Vatican hiding big sex abuse cases in Ireland.
    That's no secret and it's certainly no bombshell. People have known this since the 1990's.

    And people knew it before then but nobody ever spoke up and demanded answers.




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