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  1. #637

    Re: Around the League



    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    The team's dire long-term situation at pass-catcher can't be overstated.

    Only Torrey Smith is a lock in 2014, and he'll be entering his contract year; if he has a huge breakout in 2013 an extension could be very, very tricky given the dire cap situation in 2014 and beyond. Mellette, Brown, and Thompson are promising and cheap, but none of them are elite talents and it would be a mistake to rely on them breaking out. That's not even taking TE into consideration.

    Having said all that if I were Ozzie I'd be all over Da'Rick Rogers if he doesn't make Buffalo's roster. In terms of pure receiving talent he's head and shoulders above everyone on the Ravens except Torrey Smith, but from what I'm reading he has lagged behind mentally in Buffalo. The Bills are supposedly using a run-and-shoot sort of offense that asks a ton of the WRs mentally, so maybe he would be a better fit in our system.

    I expect Thompson to be IRed and Doss to be cut, so that should free up a spot for Rogers as the 6th WR... 1) Smith 2) Jones 3) Stokley 4) Mellette 5) Brown 6) Rogers. If they don't want to carry 6, I'm sure they could sneak Mellette or Brown through waivers or get one onto IR.
    You don't see a spot for Williams?





  2. #638

    Re: Around the League

    Quote Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds View Post
    From the article - this doesn't seem particularly hopeful:

    DaíRick Rogers didnít get drafted, but he did sign with the Bills after the draft and those intrigued parties gave him a good chance of nabbing a roster spot with a team short on receivers behind Stevie Johnson. That didnít wind up happening, though, as Rogers failed to distinguish himself as anything other than a target for criticism for coaches on his way to not taking a snap in the third preseason game.
    ďTalk's cheap - letís go play.Ē - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap




  3. #639

    Re: Around the League

    so were cutting Doss for that? a team thats more WR hungry than us by leaps and bounds says hes not worth playing in a preseason game before cutting him completely. sorry you can say Doss has done nothing all you want, but hes shown more than that. If Thompson gets IR'd theres literally 0 chance Doss gets cut from this team. even with Thompson im highly skeptical of any notion that thinks hes not still a top 5 WR on this team despite a mediocre preseason. If a vet becomes available ill revisit that thought but i dont see how hes off this team completely when we dont have much of anything else to trot out there.
    -JAB




  4. #640

    Re: Around the League

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    You don't see a spot for Williams?
    I like Laquan Williams a great deal as a football player, but IMO the receiver situation is too dire right now to carry a Marcus Smith 2.0 who has little chance to ever be a starting-caliber WR. I believe his ST production can be replaced at another position while we carry more promising long-term prospects at WR.

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    From the article - this doesn't seem particularly hopeful:
    It was always going to take the right coaching staff to turn Rogers into an NFL WR. We know nothing about the Bills' coaching staff, but I have read that the offense Marrone is installing is extremely complicated and mentally demanding of its receivers. Given his immaturity I am not surprised that he shut down very quickly when he couldn't just make it on talent alone. He didn't understand the offense, fell behind on the depth chart, got demoralized, and checked out. I'm not defending it at all, that's unacceptable for someone who wants to make it in the NFL, but it's at least understandable.

    Full disclosure--Da'Rick Rogers is one of "my guys." Every year when I look at prospects for the upcoming draft I have favorite players, and Rogers was one of mine over the last 2 years, so I admit to bias. But the kid just has huge talent and I believe the right coaching staff could coax progress out of him. It's just going to take a lot of time and patience, and a simpler offense wouldn't hurt (I think he'd be a really good fit in a vertical-based offense like our's).




  5. #641

    Re: Around the League

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    . He didn't understand the offense, fell behind on the depth chart, got demoralized, and checked out. I'm not defending it at all, that's unacceptable for someone who wants to make it in the NFL, but it's at least understandable.
    I understand he's one of your guys but I really don't think that's understandable at all. You're competing for one of 6 coveted positions on a team in which you'll be able to make millions of dollars playing a kids game. And if you don't get one of those spots, chances are you'll be pumping gas in a week.

    There is no checking out. You fall behind? Work your ass off to get better. Even if it is hopeless, try your best so the coaching staff says "Hey, you know what? This guy might not get it now but he deserves a shot on our PS..." or Harbaugh calls up Marrone and asks about Rodgers after he's been cut he'll say "Hey you know what, he didn't get our offense but it's really complicated and he worked his ass off."

    What you're talking about sounds like more of the same BS from Rodgers. He doesn't have enough talent for a team to put up with that BS.




  6. #642

    Re: Around the League

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I like Laquan Williams a great deal as a football player, but IMO the receiver situation is too dire right now to carry a Marcus Smith 2.0 who has little chance to ever be a starting-caliber WR. I believe his ST production can be replaced at another position while we carry more promising long-term prospects at WR.
    Cool. I just thought the combination of what he did on ST and as a WR would give him a spot.




  7. #643

    Re: Around the League

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    so were cutting Doss for that? a team thats more WR hungry than us by leaps and bounds says hes not worth playing in a preseason game before cutting him completely. sorry you can say Doss has done nothing all you want, but hes shown more than that. If Thompson gets IR'd theres literally 0 chance Doss gets cut from this team. even with Thompson im highly skeptical of any notion that thinks hes not still a top 5 WR on this team despite a mediocre preseason. If a vet becomes available ill revisit that thought but i dont see how hes off this team completely when we dont have much of anything else to trot out there.
    What I'm hearing here is essentially that you would not trade Doss for Rogers straight up. There's probably not a right or wrong answer to that, but IMO when you're talking about guys at the bottom of the depth chart at a given position (and it seems inarguable now that Doss is at the bottom of the WR DC), I always give the trump card to pure talent/upside. Who has more long-term upside--Doss or Rogers? IMO it's Rogers by a chasm. I feel that we already know what Doss represents, and that's a low-talent/backup type player. Rogers has a much higher ceiling, although maybe a lower floor.

    Again, this is all predicated on my theory of why Rogers fell out of favor in Buffalo--basically that he couldn't learn the offense, quit, and the team either wasn't able to or didn't want to try to rehabilitate/support him. It was always going to be a tough sell in Buffalo because they already have 4 1st or 2nd year WRs on the depth chart and they're installing a totally new offense. I'm not surprised they don't want to take on a project like Rogers, but it doesn't mean nobody should.




  8. #644

    Re: Around the League

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I like Laquan Williams a great deal as a football player, but IMO the receiver situation is too dire right now to carry a Marcus Smith 2.0 who has little chance to ever be a starting-caliber WR. I believe his ST production can be replaced at another position while we carry more promising long-term prospects at WR.
    Williams can catch a football. Smith could not. Williams will never be a top 3 NFL WR. He'll be #5 type who earns his living on special teams and can contribute in a pinch if you need him to line up at WR. I think we forget that in 2011, his rookie year, he was the #3 WR for a stage when Doss was deactivated and Evans was hurt. He had an important sideline catch during the last drive in Pittsburgh that year that eventually culminated with the Smith last second TD. He's not particularly gifted as a WR, but he's not a hack of Smith proportions by any means.




  9. #645

    Re: Around the League

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    What I'm hearing here is essentially that you would not trade Doss for Rogers straight up. There's probably not a right or wrong answer to that, but IMO when you're talking about guys at the bottom of the depth chart at a given position (and it seems inarguable now that Doss is at the bottom of the WR DC), I always give the trump card to pure talent/upside. Who has more long-term upside--Doss or Rogers? IMO it's Rogers by a chasm. I feel that we already know what Doss represents, and that's a low-talent/backup type player. Rogers has a much higher ceiling, although maybe a lower floor.

    Again, this is all predicated on my theory of why Rogers fell out of favor in Buffalo--basically that he couldn't learn the offense, quit, and the team either wasn't able to or didn't want to try to rehabilitate/support him. It was always going to be a tough sell in Buffalo because they already have 4 1st or 2nd year WRs on the depth chart and they're installing a totally new offense. I'm not surprised they don't want to take on a project like Rogers, but it doesn't mean nobody should.
    I think you're looking at it incorrectly, it isn't Doss vs. Rodgers. It's Doss vs. Everyone out there on the FA market.




  10. #646

    Re: Around the League

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    What I'm hearing here is essentially that you would not trade Doss for Rogers straight up. There's probably not a right or wrong answer to that, but IMO when you're talking about guys at the bottom of the depth chart at a given position (and it seems inarguable now that Doss is at the bottom of the WR DC), I always give the trump card to pure talent/upside. Who has more long-term upside--Doss or Rogers? IMO it's Rogers by a chasm. I feel that we already know what Doss represents, and that's a low-talent/backup type player. Rogers has a much higher ceiling, although maybe a lower floor.

    Again, this is all predicated on my theory of why Rogers fell out of favor in Buffalo--basically that he couldn't learn the offense, quit, and the team either wasn't able to or didn't want to try to rehabilitate/support him. It was always going to be a tough sell in Buffalo because they already have 4 1st or 2nd year WRs on the depth chart and they're installing a totally new offense. I'm not surprised they don't want to take on a project like Rogers, but it doesn't mean nobody should.
    While I agree that it might take the right kind of team/coaching for Rogers to make it -- IF he's actually able to make it -- do you think that the Ravens are that team? Do the Ravens have the kind of coaching staff that's shown it can really develop project WRs? Aside from Smith, have they really shown that ability?
    Last edited by RavensRule21215; 08-26-2013 at 11:18 AM.




  11. #647

    Re: Around the League

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    While I agree that it might take the right kind of team/coaching for Rogers to make it -- IF he's actually able to make it -- do you think that the Ravens are that team? Do the Ravens have the kind of coaching staff that's show it can really develop project WRs? Aside from Smith, have they really shown that ability?
    I think they have the coaching staff that can help straighten out troubled dudes. Developing WR's is a whole different issue.




  12. #648

    Re: Around the League

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    I understand he's one of your guys but I really don't think that's understandable at all. You're competing for one of 6 coveted positions on a team in which you'll be able to make millions of dollars playing a kids game. And if you don't get one of those spots, chances are you'll be pumping gas in a week.

    There is no checking out. You fall behind? Work your ass off to get better. Even if it is hopeless, try your best so the coaching staff says "Hey, you know what? This guy might not get it now but he deserves a shot on our PS..." or Harbaugh calls up Marrone and asks about Rodgers after he's been cut he'll say "Hey you know what, he didn't get our offense but it's really complicated and he worked his ass off."

    What you're talking about sounds like more of the same BS from Rodgers. He doesn't have enough talent for a team to put up with that BS.
    Well, when I said it's understandable I didn't mean that I approved of it. I'm just saying the story logically makes sense, not that I am giving him a pass on it. It's unfathomable that anybody could throw away an NFL career because of immaturity, but it happens quite frequently.

    Jerry Rice talks a lot about how frustrated he was in his rookie year, how he didn't really understand the offense, and how immature he was as a player and a man. There's only one Jerry Rice, and mentioning Rogers in the same breath is an insult to the G.O.A.T, but the important thing is how you respond to adversity. I do think SOMEBODY is going to give Rogers a chance to respond, and I think the Ravens could be a fit.

    Having said all that the other side of the coin is that Rogers knew he was on a one-strike policy in Buffalo and he still struck out. That's a pretty dim bulb. If our coaching staff thinks he's not worth it I'll support that decision.




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