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Thread: Marlon Brown

  1. #241

    Re: Marlon Brown



    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    you singled me out for saying that the fan base is making a bigger issue out of the WR position than the coaching staff. than proceeded to tell me im wrong for 3 pages, and im the one thats saying my opinion is more important?

    The one post youre looking for is the whole front page of this forum. That General gist you speak of, also has been attached with "to the detriment of our season" often as well. Saying we cant rely on young unproven WRs, when we have, successfully just 2 years ago seems odd to me. thats my opinion, im certainly not saying its better than anybody else, but its mine which i clearly stated as my own.
    We're done.





  2. #242
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    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    smh...yet again a poster putting up a straw man argument. NO ONE said the receivers had to be "elite".
    No, but you did imply that we needed downfield threats to win our Super Bowl. Or is that not what you were trying to say?

    Teams win Super Bowls without downfield threats all the time. The Pats won three of them. The Giants won their first. Indy didn't have a downfield threat, blow-the-top-off-the-D kinda guy on their Super Bowl team. It's just not true.
    "Leave. Your. Mark."




  3. #243

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by HotInHere View Post
    No, but you did imply that we needed downfield threats to win our Super Bowl. Or is that not what you were trying to say?

    Teams win Super Bowls without downfield threats all the time. The Pats won three of them. The Giants won their first. Indy didn't have a downfield threat, blow-the-top-off-the-D kinda guy on their Super Bowl team. It's just not true.
    Downfield speed, the ability to run proper routes, and the ability to simply hold onto the ball are all prerequisites for being an NFL outside wide receiver; they don't equate with being "elite". Being elite requires extra abilities, like Megatron being able to go up among 3 defenders and come down with the ball. Or Fitz also. Being elite means having the speed to blow by all CBs in the NFL, like Wallace. Etc. Smith has enough speed, has learned to run good enough routes, and holds onto the ball now so that I consider him to be a legitimate, effective #1 wideout, but not an elite wideout.

    As far as what it takes to win a super bowl...more teams that have won did/do have downfield threats, or at least legitimate bona fide weapons. The days of "Defense wins championships" (coupled with solid running games) is becoming a thing of the past, as the rules continue to stack against the D's. Are there exceptions? Of course. But more teams that win Super Bowls (or have 18-0 seasons) now have legitimate weapons, franchise QBs, than in the past. And it's only going to continue moving in that direction. A solid D, and a top flight offense, are what wins championships in the 21st century. (IMO, of course. But a perusal of the SB Champs of the past 10 years bears that out.)

    And your inclusion of the Colts in 2006 -- Reggie Wayne isn't a legitimate downfield threat? Along with Clark? That's just silly, isn't it?




  4. #244
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    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Downfield speed, the ability to run proper routes, and the ability to simply hold onto the ball are all prerequisites for being an NFL outside wide receiver; they don't equate with being "elite". Being elite requires extra abilities, like Megatron being able to go up among 3 defenders and come down with the ball. Or Fitz also. Being elite means having the speed to blow by all CBs in the NFL, like Wallace. Etc. Smith has enough speed, has learned to run good enough routes, and holds onto the ball now so that I consider him to be a legitimate, effective #1 wideout, but not an elite wideout.

    As far as what it takes to win a super bowl...more teams that have won did/do have downfield threats, or at least legitimate bona fide weapons. The days of "Defense wins championships" (coupled with solid running games) is becoming a thing of the past, as the rules continue to stack against the D's. Are there exceptions? Of course. But more teams that win Super Bowls (or have 18-0 seasons) now have legitimate weapons, franchise QBs, than in the past. And it's only going to continue moving in that direction. A solid D, and a top flight offense, are what wins championships in the 21st century. (IMO, of course. But a perusal of the SB Champs of the past 10 years bears that out.)

    And your inclusion of the Colts in 2006 -- Reggie Wayne isn't a legitimate downfield threat? Along with Clark? That's just silly, isn't it?
    Not really. You could argue Marvin Harrison was their vertical threat, but Reggie Wayne was more of a possession receiver. He always has been. Now that doesn't necessarily mean that Wayne can't or couldn't have been a downfield threat, but it isn't like he was Torrey Smith out there or something. That's just not his game. His game more closely resembles Anquan Boldin.
    When it comes to quarterbacks, don't pay attention to stats; pay attention to guys who make crucial plays at crucial times. -Gil Brandt


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  5. #245
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    Re: Marlon Brown

    And I can't help but chuckle at this entire thread.

    As others have pointed out, we (as fans...all of us) get worked up over some position every single off-season. The WR position has been a sticking point for a while now, but last year it was Joe Flacco, Michael Oher and the ILB position. The year before it was TE, Joe Flacco, Michael Oher, and pass rushers other than Suggs, etc etc.

    It really is something that the fans seem to get more worked up over than the team/coaches/front office.

    Joe is a SB MVP. He has a hell of an arm, a fantastic understanding of the offensive philosophy, a decent OL/ground game and an offensive coordinator that clearly understands how to utilize the talent he has. I think Joe, much like other great QBs, can play a big part in making something out of nothing.

    I would love to see Baltimore finally get their Julio Jones, Dez Bryant or even a really solid #2 like Brian Hartline, James Jones or Golden Tate. I legitimately believe that this offense - as it stands now - is 1 dominant receiver away from being prolific.

    However, I still think they can win and make a run for another SB birth/victory with who they have.

    RB by committee works. Pass rushing packages vs run stopping packages work on defense. Why can't certain receiver packages work to supplement Torrey?
    When it comes to quarterbacks, don't pay attention to stats; pay attention to guys who make crucial plays at crucial times. -Gil Brandt


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  6. #246

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Not really. You could argue Marvin Harrison was their vertical threat, but Reggie Wayne was more of a possession receiver. He always has been. Now that doesn't necessarily mean that Wayne can't or couldn't have been a downfield threat, but it isn't like he was Torrey Smith out there or something. That's just not his game. His game more closely resembles Anquan Boldin.
    My bad. I meant Harrison. Sorry. But that makes the point even stronger: Harrison, Wayne, Clark...and some poster wants to suggest that the 2006 Colts didn't have a high power offense with Manning at the helm? Seriously?
    Last edited by RavensRule21215; 08-29-2013 at 11:54 AM.




  7. #247

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    And I can't help but chuckle at this entire thread.

    As others have pointed out, we (as fans...all of us) get worked up over some position every single off-season. The WR position has been a sticking point for a while now, but last year it was Joe Flacco, Michael Oher and the ILB position. The year before it was TE, Joe Flacco, Michael Oher, and pass rushers other than Suggs, etc etc.

    It really is something that the fans seem to get more worked up over than the team/coaches/front office.

    Joe is a SB MVP. He has a hell of an arm, a fantastic understanding of the offensive philosophy, a decent OL/ground game and an offensive coordinator that clearly understands how to utilize the talent he has. I think Joe, much like other great QBs, can play a big part in making something out of nothing.

    I would love to see Baltimore finally get their Julio Jones, Dez Bryant or even a really solid #2 like Brian Hartline, James Jones or Golden Tate. I legitimately believe that this offense - as it stands now - is 1 dominant receiver away from being prolific.

    However, I still think they can win and make a run for another SB birth/victory with who they have.

    RB by committee works. Pass rushing packages vs run stopping packages work on defense. Why can't certain receiver packages work to supplement Torrey?
    I'm not quite sure what it is, exactly, that you're chuckling about. In years past, QB was a huge issue because it WAS a huge issue/problem. The national media knew it, and despite a few homers who kept insisting that "teams don't need franchise QBs to win Super Bowls", most fans knew it as well. Once Joe came on board, aside from a few fans, I think most fans recognized the immediate upgrade and haven't looked back since.

    The issue of Cam Cameron kept coming up because he WAS a problem, and those who insisted that the Ravens wouldn't win a Super Bowl with him were correct -- it was only AFTER he got booted that things got on track.

    This year, with the trading of Boldin, a gap was created. The word coming from the FO was that they felt they had the necessary talent and were not going to go out and bring in an older vet. (That changed after Pitta went down and Doss/Reed disappointed, as a number of posters predicted they would.) So I'm not really sure what you're finding so amusing, or what, exactly, you think fans SHOULD be talking about. The color of the uniforms? Who won the Ed Block Courage Award?




  8. #248

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    And I can't help but chuckle at this entire thread.

    As others have pointed out, we (as fans...all of us) get worked up over some position every single off-season. The WR position has been a sticking point for a while now, but last year it was Joe Flacco, Michael Oher and the ILB position. The year before it was TE, Joe Flacco, Michael Oher, and pass rushers other than Suggs, etc etc.

    It really is something that the fans seem to get more worked up over than the team/coaches/front office.

    Joe is a SB MVP. He has a hell of an arm, a fantastic understanding of the offensive philosophy, a decent OL/ground game and an offensive coordinator that clearly understands how to utilize the talent he has. I think Joe, much like other great QBs, can play a big part in making something out of nothing.

    I would love to see Baltimore finally get their Julio Jones, Dez Bryant or even a really solid #2 like Brian Hartline, James Jones or Golden Tate. I legitimately believe that this offense - as it stands now - is 1 dominant receiver away from being prolific.

    However, I still think they can win and make a run for another SB birth/victory with who they have.

    RB by committee works. Pass rushing packages vs run stopping packages work on defense. Why can't certain receiver packages work to supplement Torrey?


    preach.
    -JAB




  9. #249

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    And I can't help but chuckle at this entire thread.

    As others have pointed out, we (as fans...all of us) get worked up over some position every single off-season. The WR position has been a sticking point for a while now, but last year it was Joe Flacco, Michael Oher and the ILB position. The year before it was TE, Joe Flacco, Michael Oher, and pass rushers other than Suggs, etc etc.

    It really is something that the fans seem to get more worked up over than the team/coaches/front office.

    Joe is a SB MVP. He has a hell of an arm, a fantastic understanding of the offensive philosophy, a decent OL/ground game and an offensive coordinator that clearly understands how to utilize the talent he has. I think Joe, much like other great QBs, can play a big part in making something out of nothing.

    I would love to see Baltimore finally get their Julio Jones, Dez Bryant or even a really solid #2 like Brian Hartline, James Jones or Golden Tate. I legitimately believe that this offense - as it stands now - is 1 dominant receiver away from being prolific.

    However, I still think they can win and make a run for another SB birth/victory with who they have.

    RB by committee works. Pass rushing packages vs run stopping packages work on defense. Why can't certain receiver packages work to supplement Torrey?
    A. Edited.

    B. Of course they can win. I happen to feel that they have the ammunition to go out and improve those chances. I think that's all those of us (who are being accused of panicking) are trying to say. Nobody is saying give up an entire draft or the future of the team. I think it's still going to happen. If it doesn't, I will root for Marlon Brown to become the next Marques Colston.
    Last edited by wickedsolo; 08-29-2013 at 12:12 PM. Reason: Edited by Wicked.




  10. #250
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    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I would love to see Baltimore finally get their Julio Jones, Dez Bryant or even a really solid #2 like Brian Hartline, James Jones or Golden Tate. I legitimately believe that this offense - as it stands now - is 1 dominant receiver away from being prolific.

    However, I still think they can win and make a run for another SB birth/victory with who they have.
    Dez Bryant is the guy that always gets me upset with the way the FO looks at the WR position. The Ravens could have gotten Bryant. He was taken just one pick before theirs in the first round. They could have moved up slightly and gotten him, but chose not to. I think they traded out of the first round that year and drafted Sergio Kindle with their first pick in the second round. I think the Ravens had some questions about Bryant's background, which is why they said they didn't take him. IMO, that is a bunch of BS. If Dez Bryant didn't have any question marks about him, he would have been a Top 10 pick, and would have never lasted until the mid-20s in the first round.

    A lot of people on this board consistently post the the FO doesn't get worked up about the WR position. I wonder if that is because the Ravens FO lacks confidence with their ability to evaluate and draft WRs, so they shy away from that position and draft players at other positions where they have traditionally had more success.




  11. #251
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    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    I'm not quite sure what it is, exactly, that you're chuckling about. In years past, QB was a huge issue because it WAS a huge issue/problem. The national media knew it, and despite a few homers who kept insisting that "teams don't need franchise QBs to win Super Bowls", most fans knew it as well. Once Joe came on board, aside from a few fans, I think most fans recognized the immediate upgrade and haven't looked back since.

    The issue of Cam Cameron kept coming up because he WAS a problem, and those who insisted that the Ravens wouldn't win a Super Bowl with him were correct -- it was only AFTER he got booted that things got on track.

    This year, with the trading of Boldin, a gap was created. The word coming from the FO was that they felt they had the necessary talent and were not going to go out and bring in an older vet. (That changed after Pitta went down and Doss/Reed disappointed, as a number of posters predicted they would.) So I'm not really sure what you're finding so amusing, or what, exactly, you think fans SHOULD be talking about. The color of the uniforms? Who won the Ed Block Courage Award?
    I understand that Cam, QB and everything else was an issue.

    I am chuckling because we - as fans...and rightfully so - are so caught up in the potential issues surrounding the team, yet the coaching staff and front office rarely seem to be as caught up on the issue(s) as we are.

    I mean, look at us...here were are on a fucking Thursday at 1:20pm arguing about the receiver position on game day...a week before the regular season starts.

    Can't I find a little bit of humor in that?
    When it comes to quarterbacks, don't pay attention to stats; pay attention to guys who make crucial plays at crucial times. -Gil Brandt


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  12. #252
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    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Dez Bryant is the guy that always gets me upset with the way the FO looks at the WR position. The Ravens could have gotten Bryant. He was taken just one pick before theirs in the first round. They could have moved up slightly and gotten him, but chose not to. I think they traded out of the first round that year and drafted Sergio Kindle with their first pick in the second round. I think the Ravens had some questions about Bryant's background, which is why they said they didn't take him. IMO, that is a bunch of BS. If Dez Bryant didn't have any question marks about him, he would have been a Top 10 pick, and would have never lasted until the mid-20s in the first round.

    A lot of people on this board consistently post the the FO doesn't get worked up about the WR position. I wonder if that is because the Ravens FO lacks confidence with their ability to evaluate and draft WRs, so they shy away from that position and draft players at other positions where they have traditionally had more success.
    Well, you win some...you lose some.

    I agree. Dez Bryant would have been an phenomenal addition to the offense. He jumped up into top-5 discussions with his performance last year and outside of Julio, Megatron and Larry Fitz, I'm not sure there is anyone better. Andre Johnson, perhaps.
    When it comes to quarterbacks, don't pay attention to stats; pay attention to guys who make crucial plays at crucial times. -Gil Brandt


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