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  1. #49
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?



    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    It's not the Ravens are grinding a political axe. It's you come here for football, not Tony's political views. Fans go to and watch the Ravens games on tv, not to watch the Ravens take tax payer money to promote a politically divisive issue.
    Not sure I follow you. Maybe it's the wording on your first two sentences? Anyway, I've said my piece; time I got back to the more interesting forums.




  2. #50
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    No worries dude. I come to this site to talk about football, not politics. I would have much preferred that Tony not post such an article at all.
    Completely agree!




  3. #51
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by trailhiker85 View Post
    Not sure I follow you. Maybe it's the wording on your first two sentences? Anyway, I've said my piece; time I got back to the more interesting forums.
    You don't like coming to talk football, and end up reading about Tony's political views?

    It's the same thing Tony is talking about. We go to the Ravens games or turn on the TV to watch them play football, not to have a politically divisive issue promoted to us via taxpayer money.

    Exactly Tony's point.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  4. #52
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    You don't like coming to talk football, and end up reading about Tony's political views?

    It's the same thing Tony is talking about. We go to the Ravens games or turn on the TV to watch them play football, not to have a politically divisive issue promoted to us via taxpayer money.

    Exactly Tony's point.
    No, I DO like coming here to talk football. Where did I ever say otherwise??

    Sorry dude, I'm just not understanding you at all.




  5. #53
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by trailhiker85 View Post
    No, I DO like coming here to talk football. Where did I ever say otherwise??

    Sorry dude, I'm just not understanding you at all.
    Seriously?

    I didn't say you don't like coming here to talk football.

    I said "You don't like coming to talk football, and end up reading about Tony's political views?"

    If that is an accurate assumption, than what I am doing is showing that the same thing you're saying you don't like (coming to talk football and end up reading Tony's political commentary), is the same thing why people are saying they don't like the Ravens promoting this issue. They watch their games to watch football not watch football AND end up having a politically divisive issue promoted to them.

    Does that make sense?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  6. #54
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Then why did Tony interject his political views?
    So the team can but Tony can't? Ponderous

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Sure, "some people" object to the Ravens helping to raise awareness about a law that has been passed, but many others will not object at all, and many people may be helped by the Ravens involvement. Why should the Ravens cow-tow to a vocal minority that can't get over the fact that they lost this fight?
    Maybe you should read a poll or two. Those against Obamacare are in the majority. If anything, the Ravens are already cow-towing to the vocal minority who support the law.

    And I can't help but point out again, this entire thread, the back and forth and divisive nature the topic generates speaks directly to Tony's point -- football and politics don't mix!
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  7. #55

    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    When I was 21, my Dad gave me a single instruction as to how to tend bar at his restaurant: never, ever discuss race, religion, or politics with the patrons. Steve Bisciottii is a great guy, but he should have followed the same advice.

    Really dumb-fuck move by the Ravens to accept $140,000 to support an unpopular law. The subject of socialized medicine does not have anything to do with the Ravens.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  8. #56
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    We go to the Ravens games or turn on the TV to watch them play football, not to have a politically divisive issue promoted to us via taxpayer money.
    It is NOT "a politically divisive issue." It is a law whose provisions affect all Americans, and will remain so until & unless repealed.

    Let me ask you this: Remember the bills passed by the Maryland legislature & signed into law by the Governor to make hand-held cell phone use and texting illegal while operating a motor vehicle?

    Suppose the state government had asked the Ravens to participate in a publicity campaign to help make sure their fans understood that this was now the law? Would that have been wrong?
    Sounds a little ludicrous, I know.--why would they need the Ravens' help?

    But suppose "opinion pieces" appeared on radio & TV encouraging people to keep on phoning & texting because the law was unenforceable & in fact was unconstitutional & wouldn't survive a court challenge & if you did get charged & fined you should be angry at the politicians for passing the law. Suppose they gave air time to consultants who said the law wouldn't prevent accidents anyway because phoning & texting didn't make driving less safe. Suppose local TV was interviewing salesmen or contractors complaining that not being able to use their phones on the road was ruining their business. And suppose the legislature had refused to appropriate any funds for informing people about the new law.
    Yeah, that sounds ludicrous too--but you see where I'm going.

    The ACA provides for health insurance exchanges where anyone without employer-provided health insurance can shop for a policy among those offered by companies who voluntarily participate in the program. Subsidies are available to many who make too little to afford coverage. And after all that, if you refuse to get health insurance, you will be subject to a tax (call it a fine if you want).

    Why wouldn't it be a good thing for people to know that? Why wouldn't it be a good thing for people to know what website to visit or what number to call in order to see what this law means for them & their families? Even if they're politically opposed to the current Administration?

    It certainly wouldn't be a good thing for those powerful forces (all with gold-plated health care themselves, no doubt) who want to see the program fail as a way of striking back against an Administration they despise. Those are the forces doing their damnedest to keep this program--which is the law of the land until & unless repealed--"politically divisive." Because they're afraid it will work--& in the process smash the carefully nurtured "gubmint is never the solution, always the problem" meme they spout 24/7 to smithereens.

    Frankly, anyone who tries to frighten hard-pressed American workers & families away from even exploring those options, when the options would benefit so many of them, is certainly no friend of theirs. Despicable is the term I'd use.

    I would not be at all surprised if at least half of the folks here who are so vociferous in their opposition to "Obamacare" found it personally advantageous to them & their families, once they examine their options. And if the Ravens' participation in this public awareness campaign--for which the $130K probably doesn't even cover their expenses--moves even a few of you to do so, it's all to the good. (Because, whether you believe it or not, those of us on what passes for the Left in this country don't hate you folks far to starboard--we're mostly frustrated at how you're lied to repeatedly & continually by forces that do not have your interests at heart, & how you let them get away with it again & again & again...)

    C'mon, people, what are you afraid of?




  9. #57
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    It is NOT "a politically divisive issue." It is a law whose provisions affect all Americans, and will remain so until & unless repealed.

    Let me ask you this: Remember the bills passed by the Maryland legislature & signed into law by the Governor to make hand-held cell phone use and texting illegal while operating a motor vehicle?



    Sounds a little ludicrous, I know.--why would they need the Ravens' help?



    Yeah, that sounds ludicrous too--but you see where I'm going.

    The ACA provides for health insurance exchanges where anyone without employer-provided health insurance can shop for a policy among those offered by companies who voluntarily participate in the program. Subsidies are available to many who make too little to afford coverage. And after all that, if you refuse to get health insurance, you will be subject to a tax (call it a fine if you want).

    Why wouldn't it be a good thing for people to know that? Why wouldn't it be a good thing for people to know what website to visit or what number to call in order to see what this law means for them & their families? Even if they're politically opposed to the current Administration?

    It certainly wouldn't be a good thing for those powerful forces (all with gold-plated health care themselves, no doubt) who want to see the program fail as a way of striking back against an Administration they despise. Those are the forces doing their damnedest to keep this program--which is the law of the land until & unless repealed--"politically divisive." Because they're afraid it will work--& in the process smash the carefully nurtured "gubmint is never the solution, always the problem" meme they spout 24/7 to smithereens.

    Frankly, anyone who tries to frighten hard-pressed American workers & families away from even exploring those options, when the options would benefit so many of them, is certainly no friend of theirs. Despicable is the term I'd use.

    I would not be at all surprised if at least half of the folks here who are so vociferous in their opposition to "Obamacare" found it personally advantageous to them & their families, once they examine their options. And if the Ravens' participation in this public awareness campaign--for which the $130K probably doesn't even cover their expenses--moves even a few of you to do so, it's all to the good. (Because, whether you believe it or not, those of us on what passes for the Left in this country don't hate you folks far to starboard--we're mostly frustrated at how you're lied to repeatedly & continually by forces that do not have your interests at heart, & how you let them get away with it again & again & again...)

    C'mon, people, what are you afraid of?
    I'll reply to this with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    You keep saying Obamacare was a main issue in 2012 when nothing could be further from the truth. It was barely an issue precisely because Romneycare didn't give Romney any real room to criticize.

    And of course, the law was passed by hook, crook, bribes, lies and parliamentary tricks (reconciliation), in a totally partisan manner, unlike any other major piece of social entitlement legislation in US History. It also was unpopular when it was passed and is unpopular now. The 2010 historical landslide in the House occurred precisely because of Obamacare and the way it was passed.

    As for the SCOTUS, it didn't uphold Obamacare at all. It rejected the mandatory Medicaid expansion as unconstitutional. And it ruled the administration's argument that the individual mandate was allowed on interstate commerce grounds was unconstitutional. It merely said that if were (had been) treated as a simple tax, the law could be upheld. The problem there is two-fold. One, Obama incessantly insisted it was not tax (famously verbatim to Stephanopoulos in a testy exchange), and the bill would not have even passed had it been sold as a tax. And two, tax legislation must arise in the House, per the Origination clause, and the ACA did not. It was hilariously tacked on, at 2,000 plus pages, as an amendment in the Senate to the House bill: Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009 (which had passed 416-0). It was just one of the duplicitous moves Reid pulled while ramming through the law.

    Needless to say all the points it was unsuccessfully sold with when it was rammed through are being exposed as lies. Keep your current insurance? Lie. Keep your doctor? Lie. Lower premiums for everyone? Lie. Everyone will have insurance? Lie. Deficit neutral? Lie.

    Businesses are cutting hours, dropping spouses from health care plans, and dropping insurance altogether because of the consequences of the law. They also are not hiring until they can accurately assess what the law will cost them.


    As for how well Romneycare is doing, I suggest more research:

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...63000563259044

    The simple fact is, the same positives (and obviously there are some) could have been achieved much more efficiently, much less expensively, with much less government control of the industry / personal healthcare decisiosn / religious beliefs, and with much less harm being done to many less people. The utter incompetence displayed with the exchanges is just the icing on the boondoggle cake.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  10. #58
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Really dumb-fuck move by the Ravens to accept $140,000
    --which probably doesn't even cover their expenses--
    to support an unpopular law.
    Are you aware that of the 50% of those surveyed who opposed the ACA, 12% opposed it because it didn't go far enough? I was one of them for awhile--I wanted single-payer, period--but I now support the law because I think it's the best we could have gotten & will do a lot of good.
    The subject of socialized medicine does not have anything to do with the Ravens.
    You are woefully misinformed--the ACA is not anything close to "socialized medicine." The policies available on the exchanges are for the most part offered by private insurance companies & are priced in competition with one another--free-market capitalism at its finest.




  11. #59
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    Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Again, this isn't about the merits of the ACA.

    This thread, with every post arguing the pros and cons, is exactly why politics don't belong anywhere near professional sports.

    With each post, Tony's point is unmistakably proven.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  12. #60

    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    You'll have to forgive Lob, he's obviously a hypocrite of the highest order. When Harbaugh says he's a Christian, Lob gets his dander up saying Harbaugh shouldn't be allowed to express his opinion because he--Lob-- doesn't agree with it. While the rest of us think the Ravens made a mistake in openly supporting the law because it is a polarizing subject, we respect Biscotti's right to do so.

    And of course Lob supported single-payer insurance. Being too lazy to work and support your family so you steal money from people who actually work? That's what I call despicable.
    Last edited by darb72; 10-24-2013 at 08:24 PM.




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