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  1. #73
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?



    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    The highly partisan BS aside, just how are people who have pre-existing conditions now and can't afford the high priced plans, going to afford even higher priced plans?

    There is nothing "affordable" about this.
    People can get bronze-level plans at very affordable rates. They can also get subsidies to help them pay for those plans or higher level plans if they have financial need. That is a tidbit that Fox News never mentions. They quote insurance rates, but never mention the subsides that are available for people to help them pay for more generous plans if they need them and can't afford them. This is why getting uninsured healthy people to sign up is so important. Getting more uninsured healthy people to sign up will allow for the insurance risk to be spread, which will bring down premium costs for everyone, but especially for those people with pre-existing conditions who really need this coverage.

    A couple of other good things that the ACA does is require that insurance companies spend 80% of premium revenue on medical costs. If medical costs are less than 80% of total premium revenue, the difference must be returned to insured members. Also, the ACA expands funding for Medicaid. Two-thirds of all money spent on Medicaid is spent on nursing home care for senior citizens. Medicare does not cover nursing home care, so if you are elderly, need nursing home care, and can't afford it, Medicaid steps in and pays for it. Romney wanted to block grant Medicaid, thus cutting it by one third.
    Last edited by Dirt1; 10-25-2013 at 10:46 AM.




  2. #74

    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    If there's some compelling need to use the stadium video boards, TV ads, the Ravens web-site etc to broadcast propaganda about socializing medical care, there should be more of this crap for other "worthy causes". How about the Ravens inform their fans about how safe we are due to the Patriot Act?

    You can't cherry-pick highly controversial political positions to support without pissing off a lot of your fans.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  3. #75
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    People can get bronze-level plans at very affordable rates. They can also get subsidies to help them pay for those plans or higher level plans if they have financial need. That is a tidbit that Fox News never mentions. They quote insurance rates, but never mention the subsides that are available for people to help them pay for more generous plans if they need them and can't afford them. This is why getting uninsured healthy people to sin up is so important. Getting more uninsured healthy people to sign up will all for the insurance risk to be spread, which will bring down premium costs for everyone, but especially for those people with pre-existing conditions who really need this coverage.
    Why is it I can never talk to someone with an opposing view on the internet without them bringing up Fox News... ( I don't watch the news, any of it, none zilch, zero)

    First, I would ask you to define an "affordable" bronze plan, would $20,000 a year for a family of 4 be "affordable"?

    And not everyone can get a subsidy. You have to qualify, and even if you do, where does the money for that subsidy come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    A couple of other good things that the ACA does is require that insurance companies spend 80% of premium revenue on medical costs. If medical costs are less than 80% of total premium revenue, the difference must be returned to insured members.
    That's not good at all. How about you go tell your boss the company you work for can only use 20% of what it takes in on operating cost (rent, utilities, salaries, stationary, advertising etc.) I bet that would go over like a turd in the punch bowl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Also, the ACA expands funding for Medicaid. Two-thirds of all money spent on Medicaid is spent on nursing home care for senior citizens. Medicare does not cover nursing home care, so if you are elderly, need nursing home care, and can't afford it, Medicaid steps in and pays for it. Romney wanted to block grant Medicaid, thus cutting it by one third.
    Good to know the Government has a magical money tree that funds everything with no consequences.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  4. #76
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    BTW, I have engaged in far less partisan BS than those who are opposed to the ACA, and less than Tony expressed in his article.




  5. #77
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    First, I would ask you to define an "affordable" bronze plan, would $20,000 a year for a family of 4 be "affordable"?
    Please check out the factcheck.org link below debunking your $20,000/year for a family claim. More misinformation.

    http://www.factcheck.org/2013/03/oba...0000-a-family/

    The cost assistance (subsidies) are based on income. The average American will pay between 3% - 9.5% of their income on insurance after cost assistance. Insurance costing 8% of your income is considered affordable insurance for individuals. 9.5% is considered affordable for job based insurance. When you get health insurance through your company, you are still paying about 20% of the premium costs through your payroll deductions.

    The cost of health insurance premiums have been rising rapidly for decades and would have continued to do so, even before the ACA was passed. We'll see how good a job the ACA will do in lowering long term health care costs.

    Good to know the Government has a magical money tree that funds everything with no consequences.
    This is why elections matter. They allow the people to set priorities for spending for a country. I would much rather spend money to help our people here in the US, than spend a trillion dollars on more mid-east wars. Maybe if we spent less money trying to be the world's policeman, and spent that money on helping our own people, we would all be better off. The Republican Party made the same argument you are making in the 2008 and 2012 elections, and lost by fairly wide margins both times. As I stated before, Bisciotti is a smart businessman, and is better placed to know what is better for his business than we are.
    Last edited by HoustonRaven; 10-25-2013 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Fix formatting




  6. #78
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Bisciotti is a smart businessman. He didn't just wake up today and realize that the Republicans and their followers oppose the ACA. The GOP just shut the government down and threatened a default on US debt if the ACA was not defunded.
    That's not what the shut down was about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    They failed yet again of course, but Bisciotti is well aware of how they feel. $130,000 is nothing to a billionaire like Bisciotti, so he did not make this decision for the money. That amount of money may not even cover the Ravens expenses. I think he is doing this because he thinks it is the right thing to do.
    The money doesn't go to him. It goes to the team and $130,000 is a lot of money in team operations.

    And Bisciotti is a Democrat. So lets stop with the silly notion this was a benevolent decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    People who do not have health insurance, and have pre-existing conditions are likely going to sign up for Obamacare (ACA). This law will be a God send for them. However, in order for the law to work, uninsured healthy people need to sign up as well. Many of these uninsured healthy people are young people between the ages of 27-32. Thanks to Obamacare (ACA), young people can now be covered under their parents' health insurance plan until the age of 26. This is where pro sports teams and entertainers can be of real help. I bet a lot of NBA, NFL, and MLB teams join in such public awareness efforts before all is said and done.
    So basically you're ok with the lies such as "your insurance premiums won't go up" and "you can keep your plan if you like it" in order to get it passed?

    If it's such a great thing, why are even Democrats calling for a delay?
    Last edited by HoustonRaven; 10-25-2013 at 11:54 AM.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  7. #79
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Please check out the factcheck.org link below debunking your $20,000/year for a family claim. More misinformation.

    http://www.factcheck.org/2013/03/oba...0000-a-family/
    I asked if you would define that as affordable, I didn't say that was the case. However factcheck doesn't say that it isn't true or that it is, they just say it was an estimate from the IRS. So it very well could be the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    The cost assistance (subsidies) are based on income. The average American will pay between 3% - 9.5% of their income on insurance after cost assistance. Insurance costing 8% of your income is considered affordable insurance for individuals. 9.5% is considered affordable for job based insurance. When you get health insurance through your company, you are still paying about 20% of the premium costs through your payroll deductions.
    So where does the money for those subsidies come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    The cost of health insurance premiums have been rising rapidly for decades and would have continued to do so, even before the ACA was passed. We'll see how good a job the ACA will do in lowering long term health care costs.
    I don't get this. If it's already not lowering rates, what makes you think it would long term? Cause Obama promised it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    This is why elections matter. They allow the people to set priorities for spending for a country. I would much rather spend money to help our people here in the US, than spend a trillion dollars on more mid-east wars. Maybe if we spent less money trying to be the world's policeman, and spent that money on helping our own people, we would all be better off. The Republican Party made the same argument you are making in the 2008 and 2012 elections, and lost by fairly wide margins both times. As I stated before, Bisciotti is a smart businessman, and is better placed to know what is better for his business than we are.
    You're not going to get any argument on me about where money is being spent. But please, please let's not pretend it's only Republicans spending money else where than this country.

    Seriously, it's almost pointless for us to continue talking about this when only "one side" is the cause of all life's problems.

    I do have to ask though, why do you leave out 2010, when they ran on this? http://www.centerforpolitics.org/cry...txs2010120901/

    The problem with 2008 and 2012 is republicans are nominating RINO's and people are tired of it, try checking the turn out numbers if you don't believe me.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  8. #80
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    So basically you're ok with the lies such as "your insurance premiums won't go up" and "you can keep your plan if you like it" in order to get it passed?
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fla-bl...142302560.html

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    If it's such a great thing, why are even Democrats calling for a delay?
    I know you know this, but it's so the fines don't hit prior to next years elections...
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  9. #81
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Seriously?

    I didn't say you don't like coming here to talk football.

    I said "You don't like coming to talk football, and end up reading about Tony's political views?"

    If that is an accurate assumption, than what I am doing is showing that the same thing you're saying you don't like (coming to talk football and end up reading Tony's political commentary), is the same thing why people are saying they don't like the Ravens promoting this issue. They watch their games to watch football not watch football AND end up having a politically divisive issue promoted to them.

    Does that make sense?
    Hey NC, I didn't make it back here right away so didn't see your post above until now.

    While we may have some issues concerning mutual understanding in terms of sentence structure and wording, I glean that one point you're trying to make is: Why did I read an article about Tony's political views if I'm only interested in football. Is that correct?

    If so, I can clarify that. Tony's article is titled "Ravens Make Costly Blunder?", which could have meant anything from Ray Rice's contract to some future plans for the stadium. So I decided to read it. If you go back over the article, you'll see there was no reference whatsoever to Obamacare or politics before roughly the 12th paragraph. By the time I got that far, I went ahead and finished the article. Ordinarily I skip political articles/editorials on non-political websites. This turned out to be an exception for the aforementioned reason.




  10. #82
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by trailhiker85 View Post
    Hey NC, I didn't make it back here right away so didn't see your post above until now.

    While we may have some issues concerning mutual understanding in terms of sentence structure and wording, I glean that one point you're trying to make is: Why did I read an article about Tony's political views if I'm only interested in football. Is that correct?

    If so, I can clarify that. Tony's article is titled "Ravens Make Costly Blunder?", which could have meant anything from Ray Rice's contract to some future plans for the stadium. So I decided to read it. If you go back over the article, you'll see there was no reference whatsoever to Obamacare or politics before roughly the 12th paragraph. By the time I got that far, I went ahead and finished the article. Ordinarily I skip political articles/editorials on non-political websites. This turned out to be an exception for the aforementioned reason.
    Not really.

    Your first post said this "I normally don't visit the politics thread because I come here for football talk, not politics."

    Which I think most everyone's point is (including Tony's). We watch the Ravens cause they are the team we root for when watching football. Not to have divisive issue promoted to us (via taxpayer money).

    While I may have been able to word it better, I was just trying to show you the point others were trying to make with the point you made "I normally don't visit the politics thread because I come here for football talk, not politics." That's all.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  11. #83
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Your first post said this "I normally don't visit the politics thread because I come here for football talk, not politics."
    Precisely. And I don't believe anything I've said subsequently contradicts that sentence. However, I don't think we're going to quite see eye-to-eye on our respective points. That doesn't necessarily make either of us right or wrong.




  12. #84
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by trailhiker85 View Post
    Precisely. And I don't believe anything I've said subsequently contradicts that sentence. However, I don't think we're going to quite see eye-to-eye on our respective points. That doesn't necessarily make either of us right or wrong.
    The normally is not the relevant portion to the point. This "I come here for football talk, not politics" is. I watch the Ravens to watch the Ravens not politics. Not, normally, always.

    I am not sure if I can be more clear than that.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




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