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Thread: Ted Cruz

  1. #37
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    Re: Ted Cruz



    Quote Originally Posted by walkingpneumonia View Post
    If you turn your statement around what you are in effect saying is that Gay people want to use the state to coerce everyone else to accept their definition of marriage.
    Please. The goal is equal treatment under the law. I believe I read that guarantee somewhere before.

    Quote Originally Posted by walkingpneumonia View Post
    It is not about equality under the law but about using the law as a means to force people to think and act a certain way. The fact that the state can use its power to force people to accept something that many of them consider to be morally wrong at the behest of a relatively small but vocal minority is kind of scary.
    Precisely the same argument made during segregation for but one difference. Th majority of Americans are ok with gay marriage.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/163730/ba...ge-states.aspx
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.





  2. #38

    Re: Ted Cruz

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Please. The goal is equal treatment under the law. I believe I read that guarantee somewhere before.



    Precisely the same argument made during segregation for but one difference. Th majority of Americans are ok with gay marriage.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/163730/ba...ge-states.aspx
    I can assure you that 52% is continually growing as well. Its not a vocal minority, its the majority these days and the vocal minority is the religious groups against it.
    -JAB




  3. #39
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    Re: Ted Cruz

    Quote Originally Posted by walkingpneumonia View Post
    Maybe it would be better if the state got out of the business of recognizing marriages period. Marriages are essentially a religious institution which could easily be replaced by legal contracts for those who would marry anything capable of legal consent.
    This is true. And it's the only problem (for lack of a better word) I have with Gay "Marriage". I know it's only a word. But Marriage is a religious ceremony.

    In this conversation (which comes up ofter) the state needs to only have a say over civil unions. Anyone can have one that way every one has equal treatment, but as far as a marriage just keep it separate and have the state not recognize it at all so churches/religions can be happy about it.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  4. #40
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    Re: Ted Cruz

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I can assure you that 52% is continually growing as well. Its not a vocal minority, its the majority these days and the vocal minority is the religious groups against it.
    While I agree with the numbers aspect, I do wish that the contention between hard line religious groups and the gay community would go away.

    IMO, it's the only thing really standing in the way of full blow acceptance.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  5. #41
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    Re: Ted Cruz

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    This is true. And it's the only problem (for lack of a better word) I have with Gay "Marriage". I know it's only a word. But Marriage is a religious ceremony.

    In this conversation (which comes up ofter) the state needs to only have a say over civil unions. Anyone can have one that way every one has equal treatment, but as far as a marriage just keep it separate and have the state not recognize it at all so churches/religions can be happy about it.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  6. #42

    Re: Ted Cruz

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Anyone can have one that way every one has equal treatment, but as far as a marriage just keep it separate and have the state not recognize it at all so churches/religions can be happy about it.
    Do you mean to say the government wouldn't interfere with the actions of 2 consenting adults that are not violating anyone else's rights? What an absurd idea.




  7. #43

    Re: Ted Cruz

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    This is true. And it's the only problem (for lack of a better word) I have with Gay "Marriage". I know it's only a word. But Marriage is a religious ceremony.

    In this conversation (which comes up ofter) the state needs to only have a say over civil unions. Anyone can have one that way every one has equal treatment, but as far as a marriage just keep it separate and have the state not recognize it at all so churches/religions can be happy about it.
    I "believe"(could certainly be wrong) that this too would not be good enough for homosexuals, at least as it has always been framed to me in these arguments,.

    Again, I have no dog in this hunt, not religious in the slightest, not gay, not anti-gay.

    I too believe this to be the solution, and if it turns out to "not be good enough" then tough shit.
    Because, as mentioned in another post, if this ISNT good enough, then it is an attempt to force the government to coerce the public into sanction something they may not believe in.
    Equal treatment under the law is quite fine with me, but I will also include polygamy in the same discussion, from my perspective, they are equal.




  8. #44

    Re: Ted Cruz

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    While I agree with the numbers aspect, I do wish that the contention between hard line religious groups and the gay community would go away.

    IMO, it's the only thing really standing in the way of full blow acceptance.
    Pope Francis hopefully changes some minds in that aspect. Not that he speaks for all Christians or any other religion but i think his message is good.
    -JAB




  9. Re: Ted Cruz

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Please. The goal is equal treatment under the law. I believe I read that guarantee somewhere before.
    What he said was:

    "But that is not entirely the case. When these discussions come up, generally Gay people still feel slighted by the term "Civil Union" even if it includes all benefits of marriage but those embedded by the "public" at large and churches. Gay people want to feel like everyone else, and have it be accepted by everyone else, including churches, or at least that is the presumption I come across from these discussions. "
    I don't think my reading of that is unfair. And he was actually responding to my assertion that perhaps marriage should be relegated to just being a religious institution - -which makes your equal treatment under the law statement irrelevant.

    You also say:
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Precisely the same argument made during segregation for but one difference.
    It may have been one of many arguments made in favor of segregation( although to be quite honest it certainly isn't the first one I thought of -- the sub-human arguments, anti-miscegenation bs, states rights arguments, separate but equal arguments.) I am not saying that any of the arguments are not repulsive and reprehensible in this context( the tenth amendment was written for a reason just not this one) , but there is a very real danger in the incremental erosion of our liberties by government coercion and you can't really throw that in with segregation to taint the argument -- kind of a guilt by association and a relatively dishonest rhetorical device.

    As I said above, I don't think the state should be in the business of sanctioning an essentially religious ceremony and awarding benefits through preferential tax treatment, etc. I have friends and family who are gay too. I don't have anything against people who are. I do think the government sticks its nose in far too many areas however and when it does it tends to enforce the will of those who are the most vocal at the expense of those who are not. Any industry lobbyist is a prime example.
    Last edited by walkingpneumonia; 11-08-2013 at 06:11 PM. Reason: Clarification




  10. #46
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    Re: Ted Cruz

    Ted Cruz was just on Leno and was tearing it up with that Hollywood audience shockingly cheering him on every point.

    One point he said was there has to be health care reform but take it out of the bureaucrats hands and empower the people. Then he said it was the battle between the parties' leaders in congress messing things up. More applause except from Leno.

    Megan Kelly had someone on from townhall.com who said the website cost the gov't half a million dollars and people can't get coverage. Over 52M have lost coverage from companies dropping them because they can't afford it which is what we said would happen during the debate.

    One insurance expert said the law won't collapse but will be totally useless.



    Vince Vaugh, the famous actor, just came out and said he was Conservative. He better watch out because he'll be blackballed just like Jennifer O'Neil was when she became a Christian and speaks out vs abortion. She had one when she was 19. She became a Christian after she accidently shot herself and was in the hospital and there was a Bible in the room and she started reading it.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN!




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