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  1. #25
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    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap



    I made the same complaint about running on second down. Much better to throw it there and if you fail, keep all options open on third down.

    Harbaugh coached poorly for a variety of reasons, that being one of them.




  2. #26

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Trestman waving away his chances of scoring a TD, in the short amount of time he would have had left had we scored after his first timeout is idiotic. Obviously no one is saying you should only call the timeout if it gives you a great chance to score a TD when you get the ball back. They are saying you call the timeout because it gives you some, any, chance to win if we score a TD. Which better than no chance at all.

    And the fact we got to third down without any timeouts and thereby made it obvious we had to pass, is simply our incompetence, nothing more. If he is relying on that to support his decision, that is a massive stretch. Had we thrown on either 1st or 2nd down (or both), without him knowing whether we were throwing or running, then the 3rd down limitation never happens.

    And of course, we could have scored on our first down play and left him only 20 seconds left instead of the 1:10 or so. Or the second down play with similar differences.

    The NFL odds of scoring a TD from 1st and goal from the 5 yard line is around 70%. Obviously with our inept offense it would be less, but still the odds are good.

    In short, there is no reason whatsoever we should have felt or been rushed in those circumstances, and therefore no reason Trestman should count on it or use it as a reason to refrain from calling a timeout. And there is no reason to simply throw away whatever little chance there would be of you scoring a TD after we scored a TD.

    Trestman's decision was not smart at all, imo.




  3. #27
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    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    His explanation doesn't impress me at all. He should have called a timeout exactly where he said he was next to the ref and about to, after we made 1st and goal from the 5 yard line.
    It makes sense if you consider that the Bears probably liked their chances against the run with no fullback, one non blocking TE (Clark) and 3 WRs in the game. They probably also liked their chances against the pass in a short area, since the Ravens don't show much ability to score from the pass deep in the red zone.

    Don't know if Trestman exactly said it, but I think he did, that he didn't want to give the Ravens a free chance to put their jumbo group out there.

    My thought is he liked his odds of defending against our 2 minute package inside a small area, better than he liked his goalline defense against our heavy package. So given the choice, he opted to keep his extra DBs on the field against our 3 wide personnel. At least that's what I took him to be saying.

    So in the end, that's just him measuring his odds based on his knowledge of his personnel, and not so much the amount of time left in the game. Sounds like he's glad we didn't call the TO at the 5 and put in our heavy package.
    No one likes us, and we don't care.




  4. #28

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    It makes sense if you consider that the Bears probably liked their chances against the run with no fullback, one non blocking TE (Clark) and 3 WRs in the game. They probably also liked their chances against the pass in a short area, since the Ravens don't show much ability to score from the pass deep in the red zone.

    Don't know if Trestman exactly said it, but I think he did, that he didn't want to give the Ravens a free chance to put their jumbo group out there.

    My thought is he liked his odds of defending against our 2 minute package inside a small area, better than he liked his goalline defense against our heavy package. So given the choice, he opted to keep his extra DBs on the field against our 3 wide personnel. At least that's what I took him to be saying.

    So in the end, that's just him measuring his odds based on his knowledge of his personnel, and not so much the amount of time left in the game. Sounds like he's glad we didn't call the TO at the 5 and put in our heavy package.
    But the time in the game is the crucial part. You do not sacrifice the 13% or whatever low odds he said he would have had to score an answering TD just for nebulous advantages that apply to a single play.

    We wanted the clock to run, we were not hurrying after we got to the 5 yard line. We could have run in subs. And even if we didn't, we had 2 timeouts and only 3 plays to run before the FG attempt. The only thing we needed to do, period, is throw the ball on one of the three plays. That is it. That we were completely stupid as to wait until the last of the three plays to throw it, when everyone knows we had to throw it, is 100% our incompetence, and cannot be reasonably relied on in any decision by Trestman.

    The math says Trestman should call the timeout on 1st down there.

    And there is sort of a reverse mind game (to the one Trestman uses in his explanation) that goes on if he does call a timeout there that he completely ignores in his defense of his decision. And that is, Harbaugh would have been pressured into running the ball (to make Trestman use his timeouts) had Trestman called a timeout after the 1st down. Harbaugh would have been worried about Trestman getting the ball back with a minute and a timeout or two, and would therefore would have felt compelled to run it at least one or two times.

    I think almost every coach calls a timeout there, and rightfully so.




  5. #29

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Quote Originally Posted by GaTechRavens View Post
    Bears fans wish they had a Super Bowl winning coach.
    You're right. They wish they had Ditka back!




  6. #30
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    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    that Harbaugh has been getting outcaoched like mutha fucka lately




  7. #31

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    It makes sense if you consider that the Bears probably liked their chances against the run with no fullback, one non blocking TE (Clark) and 3 WRs in the game. They probably also liked their chances against the pass in a short area, since the Ravens don't show much ability to score from the pass deep in the red zone.

    Don't know if Trestman exactly said it, but I think he did, that he didn't want to give the Ravens a free chance to put their jumbo group out there.
    Trestman said:

    "So really only the first time where I considered really calling a timeout was after Ray Rice had the 11-yard run to the 5-yard line. And he took that ball, probably, I think it was about at 1:16 when he had that ball. That was the first time. I was down there with the official. That was the first time. But when you put ... the numbers all together, if you call three timeouts right there in succession, you’re still only getting the ball back at 18 seconds, OK? If you let it run, they’re in a two-minute mode, OK? And now they’ve got to call two timeouts, so a couple things come into the play with their using their two timeouts.

    No. 1, they didn’t call a timeout on the first one, which means they had to call a play out of their two-minute package instead of using their red-zone package. So that’s No. 1. They didn’t call a timeout and get into different personnel groupings to call the play."
    Let's see:

    1) The Ravens didn't call timeout after Rice's run to the 5 because they didn't have to; it would only have helped the Bears. They had plenty of time left on the clock, with their two timeouts, to run up to four plays. And there were 45 seconds between the snap for Rice's 11-yard run and the snap for the 1st and goal play, which is more than enough time to get whatever group they wanted onto the field, and makes it clear that they were NOT forced to stay in their two-minute offense.

    2) The Ravens then used their two timeouts after 1st and 2nd down, again giving them the opportunity to get the package they wanted onto the field.

    3) There would have been 18 seconds left if, and only if, the Ravens ran the ball or completed a pass three consecutive times without scoring, and unless the Ravens decided to go for it on 4th down, the Bears still get into overtime.

    • A TD on 1st down leaves the Bears 1:10 and two timeouts
    • A TD on 2nd down leaves them at least 1:00 and one timeout.
    • An incomplete pass on 1st or 2nd down, and a TD on 3rd down still gives them around 50 seconds and one timeout
    • Three runs and a TD on 3rd down leaves them 45 seconds

    While it's certainly possible that the Ravens would have run three times, you don't assume that will be the outcome and keep your timeouts in your pocket.

    He cooked up a great explanation, but if the Ravens had scored on that 3rd down pass, he'd have gotten crucified, with good reason. The only advantage the Bears gained was that the Ravens had to throw on 3rd down, but chances are they would have done that anyway. Another potential advantage would have been giving the Ravens extra plays if a defensive penalty gave them a first down, but who strategizes based on that? I remember watching football back in the 60's, when coaches would actually let the clock run out while they were trailing and on defense instead of using their timeouts. Strange, but true. I thought I'd been transported back 50 years.
    Last edited by moose10101; 11-19-2013 at 12:12 PM.
    I've upped my standards. Up yours.




  8. #32

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    I would have been more impressed if he said that he believed his team would not allow the Ravens to score a TD.
    His explanation is simply over-analysis to cover up a mistake in strategy. You should always try to leave yourself another chance to win the game. No matter how small the percentage is.




  9. #33
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    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    I would have been more impressed if he said that he believed his team would not allow the Ravens to score a TD.
    His explanation is simply over-analysis to cover up a mistake in strategy. You should always try to leave yourself another chance to win the game. No matter how small the percentage is.
    I completely agree with you. At the point of the 1st and 5, and that your defense has not even slowed them down. You have to give your defense a chance to get some air and try to regroup and stop the Ravens AND give your team a chance if the Ravens do score.
    Heck, what if after the Ravens only get a field goal, your offense has a minute left to move the ball and kick a field goal of your own...to win.




  10. #34

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    It doesn't matter what Trestman's strategy was. We screwed the pooch 2 yards from victory and then "Mr. SB Winning Coach" takes the ball in a hurricane and expects to accomplish what he just failed at. You kick there, count on your defense to at least hold them to 3 and then all you need is a FG to keep the game going. If the D stops them and forces a punt, a FG wins it. I think most of the fans had this figured out at the coin flip.




  11. #35

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    I don't know if I agree with Trestman, but I sure as hell respect that he thought the decision through and then was able to explain the exact thought process.

    Damn friendly Canadians.




  12. #36
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    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    1) The Ravens didn't call timeout after Rice's run to the 5 because they didn't have to; it would only have helped the Bears. They had plenty of time left on the clock, with their two timeouts, to run up to four plays. And there were 45 seconds between the snap for Rice's 11-yard run and the snap for the 1st and goal play, which is more than enough time to get whatever group they wanted onto the field, and makes it clear that they were NOT forced to stay in their two-minute offense.

    2) The Ravens then used their two timeouts after 1st and 2nd down, again giving them the opportunity to get the package they wanted onto the field.
    This makes sense. Trestman could not have known that the Ravens would not change personnel. And they could have done it without using a timeout.

    So as it turns out, the Ravens locked themselves into that 3 wide group, but nothing about the sequence of events suggested that they were forced to. I agree -- Trestman should have used his timeouts there.
    No one likes us, and we don't care.




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