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  1. #25

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit



    Warning: Football is a dangerous sport.

    That punter was looking to make a tackle. That dude made a clean hit on a player involved in the play. Yes, the guy making the hit is 6' 3 and the punter is 5' 11" so even though the Steeler led with the shoulder to chest... the helmet rode up under the punters... That happens when your body moves and your head whips forward...

    I don't want to see guys tracking a kicker or punter looking for a kill shot... but if he's getting into position to make a play, he's fair game.

    If punters and kickers don't want to get hit then run OFF the field after the ball is kicked.





  2. #26

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by JCroUSAF View Post
    He may not have meant to hurt him but he certainly had every intent to hit him as hard as possible.
    When do football players NOT try to do that? He had a clear shot at a guy who was attempting to make a tackle. He got his helmet in there, which under the rules should have been a flag, but I don't think he was trying to cheap-shot him. It wasn't anywhere close to a "blind side" hit.

    A shoulder pad to the chest would have been a good, clean, legal hit on someone who was trying to make a play.
    I've upped my standards. Up yours.




  3. #27

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    A shoulder pad to the chest would have been a good, clean, legal hit on someone who was trying to make a play.
    agreed... but when I look at this hit... it looks like he led with the shoulders, but the problem is... your head is attached to your shoulders. So is always gonna be some contact. That's why the put helmets on in the first place. But it doesn't look like he led with the crown of his helmet to me.




  4. #28
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    The NFL Steelers are becoming unwatchable for me.
    I did watch the Ravens with Tomlin's $100,000 smirk.
    Cody Wallace's testicle crushing of Randy Starks.
    Then seeing the targeting of Kevin Huber by Terence Garvin was enough to cause me to change channels and watch something else.
    I'm done with the Steelers, unless they are playing the Ravens, they are now as important as Dortmund in the Bundesliga or the Ahmedabad Rockets in the India Cricket league... not worth my time or attention on my part or any special name other than the official one.
    Heinz Field Ketchup official ketchup of the Ravens?




  5. #29

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    I'm all for making the game safer, but this is a legal play. It's a nasty, dirty play, but a legal one. Garvin did not lead with the helmet, did not peel-back, did not leave his feet, did not make helmet-to-helmet contact, etc but it's always going to be at least a little dirty to go for a knockout shot on a punter. I can't see anything about the play that is patently illegal.

    I'm aware of PFT's explanation that kickers and punters are always defenseless, but I don't think that's correct. I'd have to research the rules for myself, but there is NO WAY kickers/punters are given a permanent shield of invulnerability at all times that makes them untouchable. That would be crazy... these guys can and do make tackles, blocks, etc... they're football players and they make football plays! If they're ever defenseless while moving about the field of play, it's because of their own failure to be aware of their surroundings, which is ultimately what got Huber jacked up in the first place.

    Kickers and punters ARE defenseless immediately before, during, and after the event of kicking, though. That I get 100%. But Huber had LONG since completed his punting motion and was moving about the field completely free to defend himself. He should have done a better job and his teammates should have had his back a bit better. He was in no way actually defenseless.

    I'm not excusing Garvin, it was definitely a grimy play, but football is a game where guys just get plain beat up and the Bengals got beat the hell up by the Steelers last night. Garvin's play emphasized that one team was playing tough, borderline-dirty football and one team was scared to get their jerseys dirty. The proper football response to the Garvin hit should have been somebody getting a huge, legal block in on Garvin the next play.




  6. #30

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    "Defenseless" does not mean that they are untouchable. It's the same difference as "defenseless receiver". A defenseless receiver loses that designation once the the catch is made and he starts to make the football play. You can tackle/hit a defenseless receiver, but there are limitations as to how you do it to protect him.




  7. #31

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by saintmatthew View Post
    10 years ago this would have been #1 on ESPN's jacked up and we all would have been cheering it on. even now, it's not illegal and if it was one of our guys laying the hit, we probably would be cheering it on. Hell, I'm waxing nostalgic watching it over and over.
    Jamie Sharper's crushing hit on Hilliard (?) on a missed throw across the middle in Superbowl 35 would have resulted in a 15 yard penalty and an automatic first down. Instead, it's one of the most played highlights from that game, and an example of how physical that defense was.

    Times have changed...




  8. #32

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    If I'm a punter and the play comes my way my head on on a swivel the entire time. No one really expects you to make a tackle anyway.
    Garo Ypremian (sp?), notwithstanding, I have always enjoyed seeing a K/P/LS get into the game with a ST tackle or fake or something. Problem is they are usually outweighed & out-strengthed by the opposing players. Unless they are very careful, they're going to get the worse end of any contact. I feel bad for Huber: an OK punter and fun hometown boy story for Cincy, who will get weather reports through his jaw for the rest of his life now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Houston Raven
    Yeah, I was just about to post something similar. PFT breaks it down here that punters / kickers are considered defenseless players, thus a flag should have been thrown
    I would call Ps & Ks defenseless whilst kicking, like a QB trying to pass or a WR w/ the ball on its way. But after they've kicked then the rules governing all other active players on the play could take over. In this case, the hit may have been within the letter of the NFL player safety rules, but certainly was outside the spirit of player safety. Put up or shut up NFL. There should have been a flag. When in doubt ALWAYS flag Shittsburgh, sez I!




  9. #33

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by BPF2 View Post
    "Defenseless" does not mean that they are untouchable. It's the same difference as "defenseless receiver". A defenseless receiver loses that designation once the the catch is made and he starts to make the football play. You can tackle/hit a defenseless receiver, but there are limitations as to how you do it to protect him.
    Well, to be sure I exaggerated in my post above, but my point was that basically a shield of protection is attached to them for no reason other than their position designation--which has nothing to do with the dictionary definition of the term "defenseless." A football player roaming about the field with complete awareness and control of his surroundings by definition cannot be defenseless.

    But, in point of fact, I am wrong, according to the rulebook. Here is the pertinent section: (link: http://nflcommunications.com/2011/12...seless-player/)

    It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

    (a) Players in a defenseless posture are:

    (1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;

    (2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;

    (3) A runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped;

    (4) A kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air;

    (5) A player on the ground at the end of a play;

    (6) A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return;

    (7) A quarterback at any time after a change of possession, and

    (8) A player who receives a “blindside” block when the blocker is moving toward his own endline and approaches the opponent from behind or from the side.
    Unbelievable. So a kicker/punter can move about the field and make tackles, all the while being protected by "defenseless player" rules. If I'm a ruthless coach, I'm sending my kicker in to make a tackle on every play hoping to draw a rough block, a 15 yard penalty, and a 1st down.




  10. #34

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by Rxdoxx View Post
    The NFL Steelers are becoming unwatchable for me.
    I did watch the Ravens with Tomlin's $100,000 smirk.
    Cody Wallace's testicle crushing of Randy Starks.
    Then seeing the targeting of Kevin Huber by Terence Garvin was enough to cause me to change channels and watch something else.
    I'm done with the Steelers, unless they are playing the Ravens, they are now as important as Dortmund in the Bundesliga or the Ahmedabad Rockets in the India Cricket league... not worth my time or attention on my part or any special name other than the official one.
    Welcome to my World, Pull up a chair & set a spell

    We should have locked the Oakland Raiders and Shittsburgh together in a cage back about 1978 and come back a month after the food and water [and, wait for it ...STEROIDS!]ran out....




  11. #35
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by RedSkins Fury View Post
    Warning: Football is a dangerous sport.

    That punter was looking to make a tackle. That dude made a clean hit on a player involved in the play. Yes, the guy making the hit is 6' 3 and the punter is 5' 11" so even though the Steeler led with the shoulder to chest... the helmet rode up under the punters... That happens when your body moves and your head whips forward...

    I don't want to see guys tracking a kicker or punter looking for a kill shot... but if he's getting into position to make a play, he's fair game.

    If punters and kickers don't want to get hit then run OFF the field after the ball is kicked.
    +1

    I see nothing remarkable or worthy of penalty about this play. The punter was moving right towards the return-man, and looked like he had a play on him. He had to be blocked. The guy tried to hit him in the chest with his shoulder -- on short notice that's about as "center mass" as you can aim. The punter was staring off into space on an NFL football field, but the guy doing his job is going to get the blame. Total BS
    No one likes us, and we don't care.




  12. #36
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    Boston MA
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    yeah I don't know, it looks legal to me. Brutal, but legal.




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