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  1. #49
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens should heavily pursue a new OC and DC for 2014.



    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    Caldwell's scheme worked pretty well in the Super Bowl when they had an offensive line that was decent and a RB who wasn't injured/old.

    I'm not saying Caldwell is the best coordinator out there but he's shown that if you give him some decent players on the line and some decent receivers (IE a TE that isn't named Dallas Clark) he can be pretty effective.
    That wasn't Caldwell's scheme.

    There was never enough time to implement a new scheme after Cam got fired. Schemes takes months to implement.

    That was Cam's scheme but with a much more effective set of play calling.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #50

    Re: The Baltimore Ravens should heavily pursue a new OC and DC for 2014.

    Jesus Christ no. We're only going to get better as our receivers (Marlon Brown, Pitta) get more chemistry with Joe and our O-Line improves (remember how horrendous it was at the beginning of the year?). Once the run game starts to get going, we'll be fine.

    We held Detroit to 16 at home. What more could you really ask for?




  3. #51
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens should heavily pursue a new OC and DC for 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    That wasn't Caldwell's scheme.

    There was never enough time to implement a new scheme after Cam got fired. Schemes takes months to implement.

    That was Cam's scheme but with a much more effective set of play calling.
    Yinz are missing the significant factor:

    Harbaugh's philosophy of game management changes dramatically between regular season & postseason--more precisely, between the grind where there are numbers of games to be played, & win-or-go-home.

    We have consistently seen much more imaginative (& riskier) play calling in the playoffs because of the heightened urgency.

    Look at it from a purely probabilistic standpoint, if you implement a game-management philosophy that gives you a 65% probability of winning any one game, your expected regular season record is 10.4 wins (IOW 10-6 or 11-5), which gets you into the postseason nearly all the time. The same approach in the playoffs (presuming no bye) give you less than an 18% chance of winning the tournament, so you'd be tempted to pull something out of the hat--i.e., take more risk--to provide better odds--& if you've been plain vanilla through the year, the opponent may not be prepared for it.




  4. #52

    Re: The Baltimore Ravens should heavily pursue a new OC and DC for 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    Yinz are missing the significant factor:

    Harbaugh's philosophy of game management changes dramatically between regular season & postseason--more precisely, between the grind where there are numbers of games to be played, & win-or-go-home.

    We have consistently seen much more imaginative (& riskier) play calling in the playoffs because of the heightened urgency.

    Look at it from a purely probabilistic standpoint, if you implement a game-management philosophy that gives you a 65% probability of winning any one game, your expected regular season record is 10.4 wins (IOW 10-6 or 11-5), which gets you into the postseason nearly all the time. The same approach in the playoffs (presuming no bye) give you less than an 18% chance of winning the tournament, so you'd be tempted to pull something out of the hat--i.e., take more risk--to provide better odds--& if you've been plain vanilla through the year, the opponent may not be prepared for it.
    I agree entirely. This is exactly what we saw last year.

    Also anyone notice last game Rice actually gained yards after running stretch to the outside? How much you want to bet we see that again in more dire situations?




  5. #53

    Re: The Baltimore Ravens should heavily pursue a new OC and DC for 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    That wasn't Caldwell's scheme.

    There was never enough time to implement a new scheme after Cam got fired. Schemes takes months to implement.

    That was Cam's scheme but with a much more effective set of play calling.
    Fine that's not really what I meant by scheme but you're right. I was using scheme in a more general sense but either way, Caldwell has competently run the offense in the past (with a more effective oline, TE, and RB). Ex may hate the "Cam 1970s scheme" but that scheme also brought this team a Super Bowl.

    Maybe that means Caldwell should go back to calling Cam's plays, or maybe it means that he looks bad because he has lesser talent this year.

    Regardless, it is still pretty comical how just 6 months ago, people were raving about how the "Cam-cuffs" were off and Flacco would continue the trajectory set during the playoffs and now Caldwell is considered a moron worthy of firing. I also remember people were salivating at the idea of grabbing Cam Cameron during the 2007 offseason and look how that turned on it's head. The fact is that fans are rarely satisfied with coordinators and the excitement for Kubiak displayed here would quickly turn to "FIRE KUBIAK" if he underperforms even a small amount, which is really unfair.

    The amount of scorn directed at coordinators is, most times, disproportionate with their role in an offenses success.

    There is something to be said for stability and consistency and while I'm not saying I would be up in arms if he was fired, I do think he deserves at least another year to establish himself as a playcaller and to get a little more talent on the offensive side of the ball.




  6. #54

    Re: The Baltimore Ravens should heavily pursue a new OC and DC for 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz1988 View Post
    I don't think the ravens need to get a new defensive and offensive coordinator . Our defense is performing very well so far this year and our offense may not be good but I think its quite reasonable to understand that most of the problems on offense isn't the fault of the offensive coordinator.

    Ravens fans may have a problem with Jim Caldwell because he still running the same system that Cam Cameron ran and that may be true but their play calling is a lot different in my opinion. The philosophy the ravens are running is the air corydell which is a system that favors deep pass but at the same time solid slot receivers and a solid run game are important as well to the system .

    The Air Corydell main goal is try to get opposing defenses to cover the whole field which is generally impossible especially when you have solid receivers attacking each part of the field.
    Caldwell isn't running the Coryell the same way Cameron did. There are a lot more crossing patterns and quick passes in one game than Cameron typically called in a year. Even early in Flacco's tenure when the Ravens rarely challenged defenses deep, Cameron didn't call many quick patterns like slants or curls. Then, it was the out-route to Mason.




  7. #55

    Re: The Baltimore Ravens should heavily pursue a new OC and DC for 2014.

    I repeat. The system has run it's course if the front office isn't going to put more emphasis on making the offense the most dangerous and deadly unit on the team, instead of the red headed stepchild its been treated like. That's first and foremost.

    Second, I give Caldwell credit for doing the best he can with what he has to work with and I don't even completely blame him, because it's clear he hasn't even been given true OC control at times. I blame him, because he didn't say "Look, if you really want me to run the show, I want to bring in my own system and do it my way". I mean, Wilbert Montgomery was guaranteed his job as RB coach, before Caldwell even accepted the OC gig. The off-season passed and he still didn't get to implement his own system.

    We thought he'd be allowed to implement his own system. Either allow him to do it or he needs to say adios and the Ravens need to think long and hard about allowing somebody to do that.
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  8. #56

    Re: The Baltimore Ravens should heavily pursue a new OC and DC for 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Second, I give Caldwell credit for doing the best he can with what he has to work with and I don't even completely blame him, because it's clear he hasn't even been given true OC control at times. I blame him, because he didn't say "Look, if you really want me to run the show, I want to bring in my own system and do it my way". I mean, Wilbert Montgomery was guaranteed his job as RB coach, before Caldwell even accepted the OC gig. The off-season passed and he still didn't get to implement his own system.
    There is really no evidence that Caldwell doesn't have "true OC control" other than message board speculation. Also comparing this offense to the one he "ran" in Indy is silly because he never actually was an OC there, so obviously Indy was never running "his" offense. It was Tom Moore's offense which became Manning's offense essentially, when he left. Manning then brought basically the same offense to Denver.

    Caldwell has never run his "own" system in the NFL prior to now. So for all we know this IS his system.

    Also your Wilbert Montgomery example holds very little weight because a) the Head Coach, not the OC hires and fires assistants, and b) Montgomery is very well respected throughout the league and it is far more likely he kept the job because both Caldwell and Harbaugh respect his work.
    Last edited by s.r.genovese; 12-20-2013 at 05:08 PM.




  9. #57
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens should heavily pursue a new OC and DC for 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    Caldwell isn't running the Coryell the same way Cameron did. There are a lot more crossing patterns and quick passes in one game than Cameron typically called in a year. Even early in Flacco's tenure when the Ravens rarely challenged defenses deep, Cameron didn't call many quick patterns like slants or curls. Then, it was the out-route to Mason.
    I've certainly noticed this too. With Pitta back it's likely to increase
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  10. #58
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens should heavily pursue a new OC and DC for 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    There is really no evidence that Caldwell doesn't have "true OC control" other than message board speculation. Also comparing this offense to the one he "ran" in Indy is silly because he never actually was an OC there, so obviously Indy was never running "his" offense. It was Tom Moore's offense which became Manning's offense essentially, when he left. Manning then brought basically the same offense to Denver.

    Caldwell has never run his "own" system in the NFL prior to now. So for all we know this IS his system.

    Also your Wilbert Montgomery example holds very little weight because a) the Head Coach, not the OC hires and fires assistants, and b) Montgomery is very well respected throughout the league and it is far more likely he kept the job because both Caldwell and Harbaugh respect his work.
    Word is they offered the OC position to Montgomery first, but he didn't want it.

    I think Caldwell is a good QB coach and a good designer, but he falls short in the play calling department. Calling plays during the game is an art that not many have. You can design great plays all you want, but if you don't have a feel for the game, it is hard to make those designs work.

    Cam had this problem.


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  11. #59
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens should heavily pursue a new OC and DC for 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    I repeat. The system has run it's course if the front office isn't going to put more emphasis on making the offense the most dangerous and deadly unit on the team, instead of the red headed stepchild its been treated like. That's first and foremost.
    I think that's being extremely unfair to the front office, all things considered. I mean, the unit everyone was worried about going into the season was the receivers...and on the whole they've more than held their own this season. Jacoby and Torrey have been legit playmakers, Marlon Brown is for real, and there was no way to account for Pitta's injury ahead of time. On the other hand, I don't think anyone foresaw the offensive line being this much of a problem, especially Yanda and KO whom everyone assumed were going to be rocks. So I don't think the problem is that enough wasn't invested in the offense so much as that, for whatever reason, a unit everyone expected to be solid-to-good has instead been the biggest problem with the entire team.




  12. #60

    Re: The Baltimore Ravens should heavily pursue a new OC and DC for 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    I repeat. The system has run it's course if the front office isn't going to put more emphasis on making the offense the most dangerous and deadly unit on the team, instead of the red headed stepchild its been treated like. That's first and foremost.
    Having a good QB on a team that emphasizes defense has been a very effective approach for winning Super Bowls over the last decade.




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