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  1. #49

    Re: Ravens, Pats and Jets are Interested in Michael Sam



    Personally, I think Sam may bring something special out of tom brady. If you've seen pictures of brady at the beach or a parade, he acts and looks special(if you know what I mean). Him and Sam could become BFF.LMAO
    Sam, did the right thing, he made nfl history without being on an nfl team. If he is chosen by a team, Sam is in the history books as the first open gay player. The book and movie soon to follow. Smart PR move on his part. Money to follow to along with requests for interviews.




  2. #50

    Re: Ravens, Pats and Jets are Interested in Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by ursula View Post
    If you advocate not taking Sam because you project his sexual orientation will cause a media reaction for a few days in the first training camp and possibly again several years down the line when the player is either cut or leaves via free agency then that's the very definition of bigotry, in this case homophobia.

    To avoid talking about the football abilities of Michael Sam other than saying a generic throwaway phrase like "he doesn't fit our scheme", and instead focus on the perceived "media storm" as a reason to not draft him is bigotry. You are singling him out just like teams used to single out and avoid black players because of the "media storm".

    Fortunately Ozzie and Harbs don't appear to be homophobes so they can evaluate Sam on his football merits alone. As that link I posted above notes, Sam has some strengths and weaknesses and it will take a couple of years for him to develop, which is basically the same as any third day draft pick ever. The question for Ozzie: is he more likely to realize his upside within 2-3 years than those other depth DE/OLB's on the roster. Is he more likely to develop than Simon or Hamilton or McClellan.

    Saying that Sam does not fit this team scheme-wise is nonsense. Once we get to round 5 of the draft every player is a project who can be molded into most any scheme down the line IF they develop. But that's a big IF as most late round draft picks never develop.

    Sam is your basic generic tweener DE/OLB at this point with one really really good rush move and otherwise is not ready to start or play meaningful minutes on defense. Again, the same will be said for any player drafter from round 5 on this year-except most don't have that one killer move. In the article I cite above, Stephen White thinks his main issue is functional strength and further states that in a couple of years of focused work he can solve that problem and that if he does address that weakness his considerable strengths will shine and he could be a good 5+ year player in the league. Which with any late round draft pick all you can hope for realistically.

    Of course Simon or Hamilton or McClellan or at least the first two might have a bigger upside in the eyes of the team, I dunno. They aren't saying directly though having the team linked to Sam makes one wonder that the team is no longer high on Hamilton or Simon. (It doesn't seem like the team thinks McClellan is starter material.) Maybe none of these players, including Sam, develop. But at this point any late round pick the Ravens use is a project and that's how Sam ought to be evaluated.
    EDIT: Fuck this. I can deal with assholes, or stupidity, or pretty much anything else on the internet but I refuse to interact with bigots.
    Last edited by darb72; 04-20-2014 at 01:06 AM.
    This is a novel I was asked to proofread. The author is giving 10% of the profits to kidney research, which is a big deal in the Darb household. Fair warning; it's a fantasy novel, and the main characters are lesbians. It's three bucks on kindle from Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/WINDOWS-BROKEN...ken+fairy+tale




  3. #51

    Re: Ravens, Pats and Jets are Interested in Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by ursula View Post
    If you advocate not taking Sam because you project his sexual orientation will cause a media reaction for a few days in the first training camp and possibly again several years down the line when the player is either cut or leaves via free agency then that's the very definition of bigotry, in this case homophobia.

    To avoid talking about the football abilities of Michael Sam other than saying a generic throwaway phrase like "he doesn't fit our scheme", and instead focus on the perceived "media storm" as a reason to not draft him is bigotry. You are singling him out just like teams used to single out and avoid black players because of the "media storm".

    Fortunately Ozzie and Harbs don't appear to be homophobes so they can evaluate Sam on his football merits alone. As that link I posted above notes, Sam has some strengths and weaknesses and it will take a couple of years for him to develop, which is basically the same as any third day draft pick ever. The question for Ozzie: is he more likely to realize his upside within 2-3 years than those other depth DE/OLB's on the roster. Is he more likely to develop than Simon or Hamilton or McClellan.

    Saying that Sam does not fit this team scheme-wise is nonsense. Once we get to round 5 of the draft every player is a project who can be molded into most any scheme down the line IF they develop. But that's a big IF as most late round draft picks never develop.

    Sam is your basic generic tweener DE/OLB at this point with one really really good rush move and otherwise is not ready to start or play meaningful minutes on defense. Again, the same will be said for any player drafter from round 5 on this year-except most don't have that one killer move. In the article I cite above, Stephen White thinks his main issue is functional strength and further states that in a couple of years of focused work he can solve that problem and that if he does address that weakness his considerable strengths will shine and he could be a good 5+ year player in the league. Which with any late round draft pick all you can hope for realistically.

    Of course Simon or Hamilton or McClellan or at least the first two might have a bigger upside in the eyes of the team, I dunno. They aren't saying directly though having the team linked to Sam makes one wonder that the team is no longer high on Hamilton or Simon. (It doesn't seem like the team thinks McClellan is starter material.) Maybe none of these players, including Sam, develop. But at this point any late round pick the Ravens use is a project and that's how Sam ought to be evaluated.
    That's just nonsense. Not wanting Sams because one thinks his potential isn't sufficient to justify a "media storm" isn't bigotry, even if you don't agree with the particular criticisms.

    I don't agree with the assessment that he doesn't fit our scheme. I don't watch much college, so I'm far from in a position to judge his play, but I do know that Ozzie loves the 'tweeners. He's been trying to find Bouleware's clone ever since drafting him. Suggs has been the most successful of these, but he's drafted a lot of them up and down the draft board.

    If Sams is a high-motor guy, that's worth a lot regardless of subjective judgements about his potential. Michael McCrary was a gym rat and high motor guy whose talent was less than his production. The Redskins once cut a player who was "too slow" to be a fullback and "too small" to be a tight end: Frank Wychek went on to have a great career as a Tennessee Titan.

    I don't agree with those who think taking a flier on Sams in the later rounds would be a mistake, but I don't think they are bigots for not thinking the reward would be worth the risk.




  4. #52
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    Re: Ravens, Pats and Jets are Interested in Michael Sam

    I'm just trying to think of an example of an NFL team where a "media storm" caused the players to lift weights less often, shorten practices, fail to attend film study, not show up for games, or miss assignments during games.

    Can't think of one, but it sounds like a few of you guys must have a list in mind, since it's such a grave concern.

    There are, to be sure, bad teams that cultivate bad attention, like Dallas and Oakland. But those teams are never good to start with. The media BS they stir up is there to distract from their crappiness. It doesn't convert them from "contender" to "also ran." Their GM's do that for them.

    I've never heard of a good NFL team whose results dropped off because of a "media storm."

    In reality, the "media storm" people are complaining about is the one coming into their living rooms. The one THEY don't want to listen to because (a) the media will be focusing on something that apparently offends them for some reason, and (b) they are genetically incapable of, as they say, changing the channel when there's something on they don't like.

    As somebody said, questions are questions. Players get asked questions for a set period of time on pre-scheduled days of the week,every week of the season. After that is over, they are back to work. It makes absolutely no difference what they are being asked about. Media time is media time, and when it's over, they move on.
    No one likes us, and we don't care.




  5. #53
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    Re: Ravens, Pats and Jets are Interested in Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    I'm just trying to think of an example of an NFL team where a "media storm" caused the players to lift weights less often, shorten practices, fail to attend film study, not show up for games, or miss assignments during games.

    Can't think of one, but it sounds like a few of you guys must have a list in mind, since it's such a grave concern.

    There are, to be sure, bad teams that cultivate bad attention, like Dallas and Oakland. But those teams are never good to start with. The media BS they stir up is there to distract from their crappiness. It doesn't convert them from "contender" to "also ran." Their GM's do that for them.

    I've never heard of a good NFL team whose results dropped off because of a "media storm."

    In reality, the "media storm" people are complaining about is the one coming into their living rooms. The one THEY don't want to listen to because (a) the media will be focusing on something that apparently offends them for some reason, and (b) they are genetically incapable of, as they say, changing the channel when there's something on they don't like.

    As somebody said, questions are questions. Players get asked questions for a set period of time on pre-scheduled days of the week,every week of the season. After that is over, they are back to work. It makes absolutely no difference what they are being asked about. Media time is media time, and when it's over, they move on.
    Word

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    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  6. #54

    Re: Ravens, Pats and Jets are Interested in Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    I'm just trying to think of an example of an NFL team where a "media storm" caused the players to lift weights less often, shorten practices, fail to attend film study, not show up for games, or miss assignments during games.

    Can't think of one, but it sounds like a few of you guys must have a list in mind, since it's such a grave concern.

    There are, to be sure, bad teams that cultivate bad attention, like Dallas and Oakland. But those teams are never good to start with. The media BS they stir up is there to distract from their crappiness. It doesn't convert them from "contender" to "also ran." Their GM's do that for them.

    I've never heard of a good NFL team whose results dropped off because of a "media storm."

    In reality, the "media storm" people are complaining about is the one coming into their living rooms. The one THEY don't want to listen to because (a) the media will be focusing on something that apparently offends them for some reason, and (b) they are genetically incapable of, as they say, changing the channel when there's something on they don't like.

    As somebody said, questions are questions. Players get asked questions for a set period of time on pre-scheduled days of the week,every week of the season. After that is over, they are back to work. It makes absolutely no difference what they are being asked about. Media time is media time, and when it's over, they move on.
    It's a distraction. It has the very real potential to turn from good publicity to bad publicity in the blink of an eye. Again, if people thought Sams had a legit chance at helping the team then drafting him is fine. Nobody here is saying we shouldn't draft him based solely on the media thing anyway. That's your hang-up. Looking at the scouting reports we have there's no way he makes it out of training camp. Would you rather have the Ravens focusing on getting ready for the season, or holding press conferences about why we cut a fifth rounder?

    Now I'm going to address your view that those of us who don't want him are offended about him being gay. Fuck you. It's been repeatedly said that if the Ravens draft him, we want him to do well. Narrow minded people like you have conveniently ignored this fact in an attempt to paint us as bigots. Me in particular. You can't point to a single post that has derided Sams about being gay. Yet you say, and this is a direct quote, "THEY don't want to listen to because (a) the media will be focusing on something that apparently offends them for some reason..." Show me precisely where it's been said people don't want Sams simply because he's gay. You can't, because it isn't true. Hasn't stopped you from claiming to know what others are thinking, but hey, I'd expect nothing less. Without salient points, it's just easier to call someone a homophobe.

    IF the Ravens ran a 4-3 then Sams is worth a fifth rounder, possibly a late fourth. As it stands, with the scouting reports that he's weak, small, and not very athletic PLUS the added bonus of an easily avoidable media frenzy, he's not worth drafting period.

    You want us to draft him because he's gay. I don't want us to draft Sams because the scouting report shows he won't be a good fit in the 3-4, and I believe that the distraction of cutting him will be more trouble than any fifth rounder is worth.

    EDIT: Going back to the "Darb's a homophobe" thing, have you ever looked at my sig line? Do you honestly believe that, if I were as bigoted and homophobic as you people have claimed, my sig line would contain a link to novel where the characters are lesbians?
    Last edited by darb72; 04-20-2014 at 02:36 PM.
    This is a novel I was asked to proofread. The author is giving 10% of the profits to kidney research, which is a big deal in the Darb household. Fair warning; it's a fantasy novel, and the main characters are lesbians. It's three bucks on kindle from Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/WINDOWS-BROKEN...ken+fairy+tale




  7. #55
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    Re: Ravens, Pats and Jets are Interested in Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    It's a distraction. It has the very real potential to turn from good publicity to bad publicity in the blink of an eye. Again, if people thought Sams had a legit chance at helping the team then drafting him is fine. Nobody here is saying we shouldn't draft him based solely on the media thing anyway. That's your hang-up. Looking at the scouting reports we have there's no way he makes it out of training camp. Would you rather have the Ravens focusing on getting ready for the season, or holding press conferences about why we cut a fifth rounder?

    Now I'm going to address your view that those of us who don't want him are offended about him being gay. Fuck you. It's been repeatedly said that if the Ravens draft him, we want him to do well. Narrow minded people like you have conveniently ignored this fact in an attempt to paint us as bigots. Me in particular. You can't point to a single post that has derided Sams about being gay. Yet you say, and this is a direct quote, "THEY don't want to listen to because (a) the media will be focusing on something that apparently offends them for some reason..." Show me precisely where it's been said people don't want Sams simply because he's gay. You can't, because it isn't true. Hasn't stopped you from claiming to know what others are thinking, but hey, I'd expect nothing less. Without salient points, it's just easier to call someone a homophobe.

    IF the Ravens ran a 4-3 then Sams is worth a fifth rounder, possibly a late fourth. As it stands, with the scouting reports that he's weak, small, and not very athletic PLUS the added bonus of an easily avoidable media frenzy, he's not worth drafting period.

    You want us to draft him because he's gay. I don't want us to draft Sams because the scouting report shows he won't be a good fit in the 3-4, and I believe that the distraction of cutting him will be more trouble than any fifth rounder is worth.

    EDIT: Going back to the "Darb's a homophobe" thing, have you ever looked at my sig line? Do you honestly believe that, if I were as bigoted and homophobic as you people have claimed, my sig line would contain a link to novel where the characters are lesbians?
    This. I don't want him because he's not a quick twitch, explosive athlete. I could care less whom he chooses to sleep with. It's a shame that we live in a society where people are looking for an excuse to be offended.




  8. #56

    Re: Ravens, Pats and Jets are Interested in Michael Sam

    I don't mind us drafting Michael Sam, but I am worried about who gets cut for him. I'd be interested in trading Pernell McPhee if that's an option. He doesn't seem to have a place here and I doubt he'll return. If we draft Sam to replace McPhee and manage to trade McPhee, sweet deal. If not, I'm a bit concerned that we might not have room for him. We have a lot of OLBs. Someone has to go, but I like the potential I've seen from Hamilton, it's too early to give up on Simon, Upshaw is not going anywhere being a former 2nd round pick, and Dumervil and Suggs seem to be locks.




  9. #57

    Re: Ravens, Pats and Jets are Interested in Michael Sam

    saying a 5th rounder isnt worth a media storm isnt bigotry. I dont think its true, and way overblown but it isnt bigotry. It can just be left at He isnt a scheme fit. Thats the football side of it, which should and will be all thats taken into account. when you add in the "media storm" that hasnt taken place and likely wouldnt with a top notch FO, people just take it negatively. There shouldnt be a media circus, because it shouldnt be a big deal. honestly Id be shocked if there was more than 3 days of heightened media total and yes thats certainly worth a 5th rounder or beyond if you feel theres a chance for him to impact your team positively.
    -JAB




  10. #58
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    Re: Ravens, Pats and Jets are Interested in Michael Sam

    Sam isn't nearly the distraction that Ray Rice is.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  11. #59

    Re: Ravens, Pats and Jets are Interested in Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Sam isn't nearly the distraction that Ray Rice is.
    He also isn't a probowl player. Make no mistake, I'd rather have Sams than Rice on the team.
    This is a novel I was asked to proofread. The author is giving 10% of the profits to kidney research, which is a big deal in the Darb household. Fair warning; it's a fantasy novel, and the main characters are lesbians. It's three bucks on kindle from Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/WINDOWS-BROKEN...ken+fairy+tale




  12. #60
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    Re: Ravens, Pats and Jets are Interested in Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    He also isn't a probowl player. Make no mistake, I'd rather have Sams than Rice on the team.
    I just wouldn't worry about any sort of media issues if we did draft him. This team has handled much bigger things between Ray, Jamal and now Ray Rice. With all that being said, I don't think the kid can play on defense at an NFL level. That to me is the only thing that matters.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




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