View Poll Results: Pick 17: Lee or Beckham or Cooks

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  • Lee

    11 25.58%
  • Beckham

    26 60.47%
  • Cooks

    6 13.95%
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  1. #61

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario



    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Quite simply neither need nor value lines up at pick 17 in regards the the Ravens and the WR position, as in, NOT AT ALL. ALL of these players would be a reach at 17, and the Ravens don't have a particularly large need at WR. The premise of the thread is incredibly flawed and the bulk of the posts are suggesting we go in any other direction possible, for good reason.
    How is the premise flawed?

    It is quite simple: you HAVE to pick a WR at 17. Pick one. End premise.


    Sorry, I don't see a 35 year old stop gap WR and Jacoby Jones as viable long term solutions at WR. I don't know if Marlon Brown can make a career of winning as an outside WR. He is slow.

    And no one in this thread knows exactly what the offense will look like.

    YOU may not see WR as a first round need...but I do.




  2. #62

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Yeah, the stipulations on the thread are really weird. Some people here are just OBSESSED with drafting a receiver, and this thread seems designed to get other people playing along with that mindset. Why not just make the question "which of these three receivers are the best value pick?"
    Go to nearly any big board and you will see Beckham, Lee and Cooks ranked anywhere from 15-32. 17 is within that range. IMO, any one of them is fair game at 17 from a "value" perspective. Some teams have Beckham as their #2 WR OVERALL.

    Indeed the gist of the thread was to focus on WR. Hence, you know, the title.

    Note the title wasn't "Gun to your head scenario - avoid WR at 17 and pick another position"




  3. #63

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Yeah, I'm really scratching my head why we need a first round pick to stand on the sidelines in street clothes until an injury occurs? IF he is lucky, we are talking about 10 catches next year out of this player. Typically our 5th receivers get even less or 0. I could see Watkins or Evans jumping up the depth chart some, but NO ONE else.
    It is gonna be hilarious if the Ravens pick a WR at 17.




  4. #64

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    How is the premise flawed?

    It is quite simple: you HAVE to pick a WR at 17. Pick one. End premise.


    Sorry, I don't see a 35 year old stop gap WR and Jacoby Jones as viable long term solutions at WR. I don't know if Marlon Brown can make a career of winning as an outside WR. He is slow.

    And no one in this thread knows exactly what the offense will look like.

    YOU may not see WR as a first round need...but I do.
    I spelled it out quite clearly. All of these players would be reaches, and you don't reach for a position with a relative lack of need.

    We absolutely, positively need a RT, FS, CB and DL guy more then WR. We might even need a RB, ILB, and a TE more then a WR.

    We are literally talking about spending a first round pick on a guy who would almost never get on the field if those in front of him on the depth chart remain healthy.

    Like it or not, both Marlon Brown and Steve Smith were productive starting NFL receivers last year. It would be very surprising if any of the guys on your list leap-frogged either of them if they were healthy. Add Jacoby to that as a WR that needs to dress on Sunday's to play ST's and you get a seat on the bench and little else available at the WR position.




  5. #65

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Money227 View Post
    Well...Kiper now has the Ravens taking Ellington at #48.

    I have to say...I like the kid ALOT, but at #48???
    Ugh. So the one GM that Mel trumpets each and every year as being the best value guy in the business makes that pick. It's hard to be consistent on the little things when putting together a mock, but ffs Mel the man isn't suddenly changing his philosophy for 2014
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 04-22-2014 at 03:38 PM.
    Back to the AFCCG we go. So get ready!

    Team MVP to-date: Jeremy Zuttah and Rick Wagner (tie)

    Having fun talking football on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  6. #66

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    It is gonna be hilarious if the Ravens pick a WR at 17.
    With Watkins and Evans gone already? Sure most of the other GM's would be laughing quite raucously, wondering who got in between Oz, DeCo and the NFL office pranking the league with the pick.




  7. #67

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I spelled it out quite clearly. All of these players would be reaches, and you don't reach for a position with a relative lack of need.

    We absolutely, positively need a RT, FS, CB and DL guy more then WR. We might even need a RB, ILB, and a TE more then a WR.

    We are literally talking about spending a first round pick on a guy who would almost never get on the field if those in front of him on the depth chart remain healthy.

    Like it or not, both Marlon Brown and Steve Smith were productive starting NFL receivers last year. It would be very surprising if any of the guys on your list leap-frogged either of them if they were healthy. Add Jacoby to that as a WR that needs to dress on Sunday's to play ST's and you get a seat on the bench and little else available at the WR position.
    Reaches according to who? You? And what makes your opinion more valid than others?

    Again, I am going to laugh my ass off if the Ravens pick a WR in Rd. 1 given the amount of blow back you are giving on a goddamn hypothetical scenario thread.




  8. #68

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Quite simply neither need nor value lines up at pick 17 in regards the the Ravens and the WR position, as in, NOT AT ALL. ALL of these players would be a reach at 17, and the Ravens don't have a particularly large need at WR. The premise of the thread is incredibly flawed and the bulk of the posts are suggesting we go in any other direction possible, for good reason.
    All this value at draft spot is purely based on opinion, so how can you state as a fact that a player is a reach or not. I have my opinion on guys b/c I watch college football religiously and track them during the combine/allstar games, but I know that I'm not an expert. Sure the mock draftniks have access to more tapes, and generally have more informed opinions than many of us, but they are quite frequently wrong also. The only experts are the Ozzies and Eric Ds on every NFL team, and nobody knows their player values and draftboards.

    Flacco was tabbed as a 2nd round/3rd round guy predraft so when the Ravens drafted him at #18, it was viewed as reach. The criticism was toned-down only b/c Oz, the draft guru, made the pick. As it turns out, he was arguably the best guy in draft.

    Just b/c Beckham goes #15 to the Steelers, which I think is gonna happen, doesn't mean its a reach or bad value. Its whether these guys produce at a high level or not.




  9. #69

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    With Watkins and Evans gone already? Sure most of the other GM's would be laughing quite raucously, wondering who got in between Oz, DeCo and the NFL office pranking the league with the pick.
    Watkins, Evans and one or two of Beckham/Cooks/Lee could all easily go before 17. I could find a scenario for each.

    Quite simply, you have no fucking clue what will happen, and to act as if these players are somehow HUGE reaches at 17 is ridiculous. Just because YOU don't think the Ravens need a 1st rd WR means very little. You don't make the decisions. You don't know how they feel about their personnel.

    So if Lee goes 23 to KC, he would have been a reach at 17? 6 spots? Really? If Cooks goes 18 to NYJ he was a reach at 17?

    These guys are 1st round talents. Picking any at 17 is hardly a reach. It is the back half of the 1st rd. How can it be a reach to take a 1st rd WR in the 1st rd at 17?
    Last edited by bt12483; 04-22-2014 at 03:45 PM.




  10. #70

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Did I once say HUGE reaches? NO
    They all probably should be gone by around the end of the first round. But there are players nearly as good that should be available until the end of the second round.

    I consider them poor values at 17 because the drop off at the WR position(after Evans and Watkins) is FAR LESS steep then it is at POSITIONS WE ACTUALLY HAVE A NEED AT. To use such a prime pick on a future guy only, and ignore a POTENTIAL STARTER is pure lunacy.

    The value point for the players isn't THAT horrible, it's that you are considering passing on a starting FS for a #5 WR, when their might not even be a starting FS on the board when we pick at #48!!!! RT is a "bit' deeper position, but again, you are talking about 1 injury away from playing LT!!! Beckham might be 3 injuries away from cracking the starting lineup at a less important position.

    It's one thing to take a WR because he is the BPA... IF there were a guy and it worked out way I'd be "ok" with it... but the chances that one of these guys is the BPA at 17 is minuscule.
    It simply makes far more sense to take a player we actually NEED, from a position group that is LESS deep in the draft, and less deep on our team, then simply drafting a WR, because... "We have to get a top wideout".... which i don't understand the thought process behind, if there was one.




  11. #71

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    I don't think Beckham is a reach at all at 17 although I do agree that there probably will be someone else that may fit a need a lot more.

    The others are slight reaches though IMHO.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  12. #72

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Kiper has cooks ranked 12, Beckham 13, lee 23.




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