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  1. #1
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    Situation in Iraq



    Can't say I'm surprised this is happening.

    Though, I feel for all of the guys and gals who lost years of their life over there for seemingly no reason.

    Thoughts?


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  2. #2
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    Re: Situation in Iraq

    You need a link man.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Situation in Iraq

    Www.anynewsstation.com


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  4. #4

    Re: Situation in Iraq

    I get why we want to have pro western governments around the world (particularly the Middle East), and it's important to protect our interests to a large degree.

    But I always have had problems with a foreign country (including us) trying to install it's own type of government/system...the people typically have nothing invested and if the country is in a hostile part of the world, they are to scared/intimidated to protect and govern themselves after we leave.

    The entire time we were there after ousting Sadaam felt like Vietnam...we'd spend tons of money and time trying to train and install the right people in government and military, but after we left and shit hit the fan, those people wound up being cowards and or simply incapable of fighting for themselves.

    New governmental ideals usually only really take hold after large, cooperative revolutions by their own people.

    Like you said, it sucks to have all those people lose their lives for what looks like for nothing.


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  5. #5

    Re: Situation in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    New governmental ideals usually only really take hold after large, cooperative revolutions by their own people.

    Like you said, it sucks to have all those people lose their lives for what looks like for nothing.
    well, never should have been there to begin with, so i hate that those vets lost their lives, not defending our freedom but giving iraq its. Thats not how its suppose to work. I hate that we continually put ourselves in situations to police the world. I think you need allies obviously, but you cant force the issue.

    youd think wed realize that standing up for yourself and fighting for your independence and what the people want in a... revolutionary... way, would be the way it should be done. Not sure why our government feels going in and doing the dirty work and hoping that they have the people to step up afterward and lead is even possible. those people that lead the revolution are the same ones that you need to then run the thing. if they arent present to start it off, they wont be there when its finished either.
    -JAB




  6. #6
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    Re: Situation in Iraq

    Saw this coming. Sad. We wasted lives, cripple service members, and their time (2 deployments -1 year total for me), and for what? Democracy will never work in the middle east until the people want it. They didn't want it then and still don't. So what exactly did we accomplish?

    Saddam was a horrible human being. But he did one thing "right". He kept the three factions in Iraq under control. Iraq is worse off now than 10 years ago.

    Better still, you have some people who think this is happening because we pulled out. Looking at you John McCain. Were we suppose to stay there indefinitely?

    Baghdad will be a bloodbath.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Situation in Iraq

    Geo-Politics is an interesting thing...


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  8. #8
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    Re: Situation in Iraq

    Just some points I am pondering from these events and this thread ....

    1. Democracy does work in the middle east. Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, Kuwait and (to a lesser extent) Egypt are proof. I am sorry Dade, but that's a throw away assertion that's not based in fact.

    2. The problem isn't really with the terrorists. The terrorists, including those associated with ISIS, have been a threat since the regime change so that's nothing new. Rather, it's the thousands of soldiers who have abandoned their duties in the face of this aggression.

    3. Given that the people in Iraq have basically abandoned their own country and government, I am almost of the opinion to say "fuck it" and let them live with the result. I say almost because if it's left to them to defend their own country, rest assured we would still have to deal with the mess down the road. So maybe it's better to intervene now? I don't know.
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  9. #9

    Re: Situation in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Just some points I am pondering from these events and this thread ....

    1. Democracy does work in the middle east. Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, Kuwait and (to a lesser extent) Egypt are proof. I am sorry Dade, but that's a throw away assertion that's not based in fact.

    2. The problem isn't really with the terrorists. The terrorists, including those associated with ISIS, have been a threat since the regime change so that's nothing new. Rather, it's the thousands of soldiers who have abandoned their duties in the face of this aggression.

    3. Given that the people in Iraq have basically abandoned their own country and government, I am almost of the opinion to say "fuck it" and let them live with the result. I say almost because if it's left to them to defend their own country, rest assured we would still have to deal with the mess down the road. So maybe it's better to intervene now? I don't know.
    I agree democracy can work.

    But the people have to want to defend it and fight for it (democracy or any other type of government).

    These are their own people, their own land being destroyed and they are running.

    It has always baffled me the contrast between the way middle eastern terrorists are so willing and even seemingly excited to die for their terror causes, yet so many moderate middle eastern people seem to be such cowards (sorry, but IMHO, thats what they are).

    Have some pride in your country, your families, your people, your land for crying out loud.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  10. #10
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    Re: Situation in Iraq

    HR - you bring up good points about Democracy working in other Middle Eastern countries, but Dade said it will only work if the people want it and the Iraqi people aren't interested in it.

    The problem is the Kurds, Sunni, and Shiite have no interest in working together.


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  11. #11
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    Re: Situation in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    HR - you bring up good points about Democracy working in other Middle Eastern countries, but Dade said it will only work if the people want it and the Iraqi people aren't interested in it.

    The problem is the Kurds, Sunni, and Shiite have no interest in working together.


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    Fair enough. Didn't see the qualifier when I first read Dade's post.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Situation in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Just some points I am pondering from these events and this thread ....

    1. Democracy does work in the middle east. Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, Kuwait and (to a lesser extent) Egypt are proof. I am sorry Dade, but that's a throw away assertion that's not based in fact.

    2. The problem isn't really with the terrorists. The terrorists, including those associated with ISIS, have been a threat since the regime change so that's nothing new. Rather, it's the thousands of soldiers who have abandoned their duties in the face of this aggression.

    3. Given that the people in Iraq have basically abandoned their own country and government, I am almost of the opinion to say "fuck it" and let them live with the result. I say almost because if it's left to them to defend their own country, rest assured we would still have to deal with the mess down the road. So maybe it's better to intervene now? I don't know.
    Kuwait is functional, Lebanon is a horror story under Syrian and terrorists control, Turkey is becoming more Islamic/Sharia law by the minute, Egypt is a cluster and Israel's population is heavily loaded with European immigrants or descendants of them.

    Your second point is supportive of what you tried to dispute in point one. They don't want democracy bad enough to stand and fight for it.




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