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  1. #25
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE



    Quote Originally Posted by Money227 View Post
    The more I think about though, the more I don't want the two positions merged (for tag purposes). I understand TEs are being used much differently, but they still aren't WRs. WRs don't get to line up opposite LBs and Safeties. The athletic pass catching TE is certainly on the rise and I think it will just take a bit for the salaries to catch up. Quite a few of these TEs are going to be signing big money contracts in the next few years. This will in turn raise the tag number significantly.
    Receivers absolutely line up across from linebackers and safeties.

    Take the Cardinals for example. Their nickel defense includes dropping Tyrann Mathieu down to a nickel corner position and bringing in Rashad Johnson at free safety.

    Now, Mathieu is kind of a hybrid, but he is still a safety.

    We did the same thing here with Haruki Nakamura.
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  2. #26
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    When Graham is covered by a CB, his numbers aren't nearly as impressive. If he is all world how was it he was limited to 1 catch against the Seahawks? He is a TE and deserves to be paid as a TE. Put him on the outside and corners and safeties will eat his lunch.
    I agree to a certain extent, but the Seahawks doubled down on Jimmy Graham and left Marques Colston open for much of that game (as evident by his 11 receptions, 144 yards, and 1 TD).

    The Seahawks took the lesser of two evils and kept Graham out of that game completely.
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  3. #27

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I agree to a certain extent, but the Seahawks doubled down on Jimmy Graham and left Marques Colston open for much of that game (as evident by his 11 receptions, 144 yards, and 1 TD).

    The Seahawks took the lesser of two evils and kept Graham out of that game completely.
    That doesn't help Jimmy's case for being classified as a receiver at least not a top class one. If he was an elite WR, like he wants to be paid as a top WR he shouldn't be classified as "the lesser of two evils" by opposing defenses.




  4. #28

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticfury View Post
    That doesn't help Jimmy's case for being classified as a receiver at least not a top class one. If he was an elite WR, like he wants to be paid as a top WR he shouldn't be classified as "the lesser of two evils" by opposing defenses.
    I think he was insinuating that Colston was the lesser of two evils...




  5. #29
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticfury View Post
    That doesn't help Jimmy's case for being classified as a receiver at least not a top class one. If he was an elite WR, like he wants to be paid as a top WR he shouldn't be classified as "the lesser of two evils" by opposing defenses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I think he was insinuating that Colston was the lesser of two evils...
    Indeed.

    The Seahawks viewed Graham as a larger threat than they did Coltson, which is why they were ok with Colston doing what he did while they stuck to their gameplan of completely keeping Graham out of the game.
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  6. #30
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    So he wasn't worth a 2nd rounder from anyone last year, and he goes out, has a MAJOR injury, gets a year older, and produces little on the field and is now worth an elite contract for his position? That's where I struggle.
    When has any team paid a #2 draft pick for a RFA? Not many, if any. Teams value their 2d round pick.

    Like BC just posted, he's worth the weight in gold as Joe's fav target. He's back. He's healthy and will put up the numbers, maybe not Jimmy Graham numbers but numbers that will justify his contract. The Ravens aren't complaining and neither are most of the fans. They want and need Pitta and even with this contract Ravens are about $4.1M under the CAP so what's the prob. They can roll that over to next year to pay for Jimmy and Torrey Smith. I think it's the most they've ever been under the CAP even with Pitta's contract. Ravens have done great with their CAP numbers this year.

    Let's re-visit this at the end of the year. Wait til you see him hitting the middle same time as Daniels getting those mis-matches on the LBs. Despite his numbers, take out Pitta's SB catch which was straight up the middle on a hard thrown ball and we lose.

    That's why the fans love him. He's a winner and has been injured only once for a lengthy period of time and we saw what happened to the team. This other TE you speak of won't bring the chemistry and timing and experience that Pitta does.
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  7. #31

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    The Graham ruling was correct, IMO. One could argue the whole TE pay scale should go up, but his salary will be determined by the top 5 TE's, and 4 out of 5 of them all lined up over 50% of the time in the slot. That's what elite TEs do now. Vernon Davis being the 1/5, and he lined up there 35% of the time.

    The argument that he plays mostly against linebackers and safeties, whereas elite (top 5) WR play corners, is also legit. Sure, there are exceptions, but by in large he's not facing the defense that the top WRs are.

    He should get paid more than Gronk on a long term deal, but not in the elite WR category (which is overblown anyway).




  8. #32

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    The only reason Graham should make more than Gronk is because of injury history. Hes not the player that Gronk is. he has gaudy stats (partially due to NO strong aerial attack), but his efficiency is nowhere near Gronk (healthy) and he still cant block worth a shit. personally Id take Vernon Davis over him as well. Hes a weapon, no doubt about it, but I dont see him as the best, even by fantasy standards its not clear cut.
    -JAB




  9. #33

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    He will still get a mega TE deal that will up the scale significantly for the position. He just tried this to see if he could push the envelope. It didn't work, but he'll still get paid, barring injury.

    As for Dennis Pitta, I think his value is higher here than anywhere else. The chemistry between he and Joe Flacco is very valuable.
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  10. #34
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    The reason he lines up outside and in the slot is because he cannot block. So why use him as a decoy, put him in the slot and create a mismatch.

    Comparing Suggs situation to this, I thought Graham would likely get the nod. In a few years things will probably change but I guess not yet.
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  11. #35

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Receivers absolutely line up across from linebackers and safeties.

    Take the Cardinals for example. Their nickel defense includes dropping Tyrann Mathieu down to a nickel corner position and bringing in Rashad Johnson at free safety.

    Now, Mathieu is kind of a hybrid, but he is still a safety.

    We did the same thing here with Haruki Nakamura.
    Let me clarify a bit. #1 WRs in the NFL (the highest paid of which determine the tag number) do not line up against LBs and Safeties.




  12. #36

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    The reason he lines up outside and in the slot is because he cannot block. So why use him as a decoy, put him in the slot and create a mismatch.

    Comparing Suggs situation to this, I thought Graham would likely get the nod. In a few years things will probably change but I guess not yet.
    Unless I'm mistaken, there was no ruling with Suggs. The Ravens and Suggs came to an agreement on a long-term deal before a ruling had to take place. Right?




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