Is it me?

**Mista T** · 10-12-2006, 09:16 AM

Let's revisit this when the season is over, and then we'll see who knows what they're talking about. IF the Ravens do Not make the playoffs, then this experiment Failed

How about let's not wait until all the damage is done.

Should we also wait until January to watch all the taped games before knowing how the team fared? The time to address the mediocrity is now, before any more damage is done, as the Ravens head into a schedule run against contenders. IIRC, we had a similar situation in 2000 which resulted in a midseason QB switch, although Tony Banks was playing better in 2000 than McNair is playing today.

Even Preston is starting to make noises about it.

**larrylater** · 10-12-2006, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Mista T

How about let's not wait until all the damage is done.

Should we also wait until January to watch all the taped games before knowing how the team fared? The time to address the mediocrity is now, before any more damage is done, as the Ravens head into a schedule run against contenders.

That's a great point and it always makes me sick when I hear Billick or any coach say, "I can't comment, I'll have to see the tape". Huh?!? Doesn't this mean that you have zero ability to make in-game adjustments?? I agree that tape watching is valuable but most of the stuff is blatantly obvious and needs immediate attention. I mean if he's no longer calling plays and can't adjust to the live action without watching tape, why is he even there on Sundays?!? Ok, rant over.

**FHRaven** · 10-12-2006, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by ravenjoe

Let's revisit this when the season is over, and then we'll see who knows what they're talking about. IF the Ravens do Not make the playoffs, then this experiment Failed, and my opinion re. McNair will have been wrong; but to discuss the season outcome, before all of the "facts" are in, is pointless right now.

We are discussing the facts.

The facts are that the offense still stinks even after the "great" Steve McNair was brought in. You can stick your head in the sand but most of us prefer to discuss the team's performance and what they can/should do to improve it.

If we can't do that, why even have a message board?

FHRaven

**ravenjoe** · 10-12-2006, 10:03 AM

I do agree that the Offense currently Stinks, and it needs to be corrected before the Ravens think about going deep into the playoffs. My only point is that McNair is the man to drive the ship, Not Boller, In My Opinion! Hopefully, he is the man, and then we can all share in the celebration come January.

**AZRAVEN** · 10-12-2006, 10:29 AM

The only attribute I can see that McNair has, so far, is the confidence of the rest of the team. Ray is still bragging him up and if Heap slathers over him any more he will melt into a puddle right in front of his locker. I just wonder how long that adoration will last if he keeps laying eggs like he has been. If it doesn't, I fear this team will tank completely because they've already made it abundantly clear that Boller is not their guy.

**Ravens'N'Hoos** · 10-12-2006, 10:55 AM

We are 4-1 solely because of an outstanding defense and Stover. McNair has been been a major disappointment. His two game winning drives obscured two straight games of 57 minutes of mediocrity. Otherwise, he has been average or below average.

I don't know how Boller would've done in these first 5 games. But this article makes a pretty good case for how much of a difference McNair's clutch performances have made. Out of 34 starts, Boller has led only three 4th Quarter comebacks, one in the final 2:00. Granted - how many times were 4th Quarter comebacks needed? It doesn't say, but it's still a telling stat.

By the way, when people talk about Boller's record as a starter, why is it "Boller's winning record," but instead of talking about "McNair's winning record," it's "just the defense and Stover"? Of course the defense and Stover deserve the lion's share of the credit, but that was at least as true under Boller. The difference is McNair has shown far more comeback ability than Boller ever did.

Yeah, McNair sucked Monday night in Denver. But in the SD game, if it's a cloudy day, Mason catches the pass (downfield!) for a TD and we win by 10, not 3. If Wilcox holds on to the ball, he gets his 2nd TD of the game and we win by 17, over the league's best defense.

I'm not trying to make excuses for McNair, but I am arguing for more patience. I was patient with Boller for three season. I was not a "hater" - I was a wait and see guy. With the MIN and GB games last year, he almost had me. Then there was the CLE game, and it sealed it for me - Boller can be good but not consistently good.

McNair is coming off a season in TEN with a worse supporting cast, yet he produced 3,000+ passing yards, 16 TDs and 11 INTs. I still see no reason he can't do at least a little better than that here (just take away some of the INTs and that's all we need), given that he has better weapons. That said, the playcalling and the running game must improve. The way our offense is built, the passing game's success depends on the running game, not the other way around.

Give Musa and/or Mike the ball more often, and we'll see everything improve, including McNair. After 5 games (no, it's not 9, the preseason doesn't count), it's not even close to time to say McNair was a bad investment yet. I never said that about Boller through the 2003, 2004 or 2005 seasons, until the very end of last season, and even then I didn't want to give up on him, just see what other alternatives were available. If we were patient with Boller that long, we can be patient with McNair, given EVEN his recent record in TEN, for several weeks.

**Irishraven** · 10-12-2006, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Mista T

Oh give me a break!

We are 4-1 solely because of an outstanding defense and Stover. McNair has been been a major disappointment. His two game winning drives obscured two straight games of 57 minutes of mediocrity. Otherwise, he has been average or below average.

Anthony Wright's and Kyle Boller's performances last season were as good or better.

Agree 100% - I have seen nothing from him to make me believe he is that much better than Kyle! In the game against the chargers, it was Heap who got the winning TD, he fought for every inch!

**ExiledRaven** · 10-12-2006, 01:08 PM

Fact is this: unless McNair changes how he plays or can get downfield with any type of accuracy or consistency, we're back to a stacked box and an offense destined for failure.

Argue all you want. The passing game is killing the running game plain and simple. If we can't do a double move because we don't throw it well or accurately, then no defender is going to respect it. Then we end up with a loaded box again because a defense only has to guard 15-20 yards of field tops, DBs cheat into playing like linebackers.

Boller's not great. But there is one thing I will say about him. The kid's mentally tough, and he's going to keep fighting. Bringing McNair put a chip on his shoulder...and seeing how this line gave Air McNair time to throw against Denver...well, that was 90% of Boller's problem!! He spend the vast majority of his time running for his life. You can't develop pocket presence when your center is falling into you right off the snap. It's not nearly as bad this year.

I am not saying get Boller in there....but if we see another game of 3 ints from McNair with general lack of accuracy, then I'm not entirely sure about sticking with him.

Jamal should be out now, but we all know he won't be

Seriously, has he even looked decent outside a few runs in preseason and week one? Anderson and Smith have wildly outplayed him.

Billick sticking with who the team invested money in or who he needs to keep happy is disgusting. Perform to play, play to perform. If you can't do that, get out!

I don't care who you are, consistent sub 3.0 ypa running is wrong. Performing at a level lower than the QB you replaced is wrong, I don't care if your name is Peyton Manning and you come to Baltimore as a FA and through 5 games your stats are worse then who we bring you in to replace...might want to reexamine things. Granted, there is an exception for rookies, they need to develop, but Vets are brought in to be complete players who have experience and whatever else.

So we need to make a change...Brian Billick will you make it? For once, can you actually adjust before it's too late? I am not holding my breath.

**ClericBlackDave** · 10-12-2006, 01:12 PM

Lets keep it real.

McNair is fine, for now. We're 4-1. I think some people are quick to hop on his performance (i am too), but he's 4-1 with some clutch drives.

That sad, statistically, Boller looked better last year than McNair looks now.

McNair needs to learn the system, blah blah blah. But our system isn't that complex. So lets keep it real.

He's the starter until something terrible happens. Or until he looks bad and, like Daunte Culpepper, through injury it gives Boller a chance.

I wouldn't expect Boller to come back and light it up either, because he's not that type of guy, he needs to get in a groove. So really, we're in a rock and a hard place if McNair can't start putting up the points we need.

Carolina is going to be a big test. We're at home, so no excuses. Who's the better team? Can we hang with the elites yet? We'll see.

**ExiledRaven** · 10-12-2006, 01:14 PM

Right, my question is how many weeks of cruddy performance is this going to take? Does McNair have to throw 3 picks two more weeks and have use lose 2 more games before a change is made? Does the season need to be effectively over before we try out new players?

I don't like what my gut tells me those answers are.

**AZRAVEN** · 10-12-2006, 01:29 PM

I really don't see what options we have, we are wedded to McNair and so we just have to try to be patient until he figures things out. With as vocal as the players have been about McNair vs Boller I honestly don't see putting him back in as a realistic option (unless, of course, it's an injury situation).

**Ravens'N'Hoos** · 10-12-2006, 01:37 PM

Does McNair have to throw 3 picks two more weeks and have use lose 2 more games before a change is made?

You act as if this has happened more than once, against one of the league's best defenses in one of the toughest road locations to play in.

**bobw2829** · 10-12-2006, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

Second, please explain again how a QB with a winning record and a 12-4 home record is considered not a winning QB? If you want to get on him for the mistakes he's made, fine. Other than that, you're statement is factually wrong.

What's his road record?

**ExiledRaven** · 10-12-2006, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Ravens'N'Hoos

You act as if this has happened more than once, against one of the league's best defenses in one of the toughest road locations to play in.

I am exaggerating.

57 minutes of garbage and 3 minutes of good is not enough.

Outside the 1st bucs drive, and the two minute drill on SD and Cleveland....nothing.

Of course your respsonse will be "well, those are good things, we won those games, 'kyle boller wouldn't have been able to do it'..."

At any rate, with this type of performance, I'd rather have seen what boller could do...cleveland was bad, but he was looking better at the end of last year. You'd think he'd put up better numbers than the man he replaced.

"but we win games"

Well, then we're going to have to disagree. If we were going to replace Boller, Brees makes more sense. He's a long term answer, not some stop gap that is going to get us into the same old situation unless we can find someone else and develop them. I just don't want to get started.

Something got to give. 1st things 1st, Jamal needs to have a severely reduced role in the offense. Then we'll see if something starts to click.

**RavenTD** · 10-12-2006, 04:27 PM

What worries me,is that they reported Billick said he was happy with the running and passing when they came out for the second half.If you settle for second best,then get used to holding the wooden spoon.

The offense needs to open it up.And open it up quickly.Or once again,the defense won't have any strength left once the regular season draws to a close.

**RavenDavey** · 10-12-2006, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by RavenTD

The offense needs to open it up.And open it up quickly..

I think it gets opened up Sunday against Carolina at home!!

Hey.....count me in for the BASH club!!

**Ravens'N'Hoos** · 10-12-2006, 05:16 PM

If we were going to replace Boller, Brees makes more sense.

I too would've rather had Brees, but for whatever reason, our FO apparently didn't pursue him. If Brees was off the table, I was happy with McNair and am reserving judgement for now, as I did with Kyle Boller for three seasons (not that I'm willing to give McNair nearly that long).

I just have to wonder - If McNair put up 3,100 yds in TEN last year, 16 TDs, 11 INTs, why can't he do that here this year with better weapons (and get that INT number down a bit)? Or do even better? Even that performance, with our defense, would probably make us solid playoff contenders IF the running game also gets on track. That performance was just last year. He didn't have a major injury at the end of last year; he was well enough to play in the Pro Bowl. By process of elimination, then, these problems probably aren't about McNair's skills. He has the same skill level as last year. It must be about the process of getting accustomed to leading a new offense, the play-calling, the running game or (most likely) a combination.

**RAVENOUS52** · 10-12-2006, 08:56 PM

I've always supported Boller or whoever was the Ravens starting QB (Some of the original posters from the Ravensnest board probably remember my ill-fated "We Believe in Tony Banks" banner I took to the games during the 00-01 season

I think that Steve McNair can and will turn things around in the coming weeks based on the reality that he has the offense's total loyalty and respect. They will continue to gel (in my opinion) into an offense capable of producing 2-3 TD scores each game, in addition to whatever our magnificent defense manages to score.

Trust me, being there live in the freezing rain to witness our offense bumble and stumble it's way into the first loss of the season definitely wasn't a highlight of my visit to Denver, however I am willing to give McNair a free pass this time because for the mostpart he's been able to limit the kinds of mistakes he made Monday Night.

I believe that #9 is as pissed off and determined to NOT repeat those scenarios as anyone surrounding the Ravens just based on the interview he gave after the game... Time will tell the tale, however...

**darb72** · 10-12-2006, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by ravenjoe

Prove it?! I stated an Opinion which I'll stand by until the Raven's record indicates otherwise. If this team Fails to make the playoffs, then the addition of McNair (in lieu of Sunshine, named affectionately after the QB in the magnificent film, "Remember the Titans") will have not improved this team's relative success over the last couple of years. I believe McNair will deliver! He has attributes which, in my opionion, have been sorely lacking at the QB position ever since Mr Dilfer was released.

"Slick"....hmmm, I like that!

Goody, I get to verbally pimp smack someone.

Ok, you said the Ravens would be 2-3 at best with Boller right?

Uhmmm... last year the Ravens were 5-2 when the opponents scored 15 or fewer points. This year they're 4-1.

Guess what. That's pretty much the same record. Now before you go posting facts again, I'd suggest you actually do a little checking to make sure you're right.