Implications of a new coach

**Purpleguy** · 11-13-2007, 11:40 AM

Say we fire Billick. what players have to go as well?

I don't see how a new coach could deal with an ego like Ray Lewis. He was on the radio last night talking about "his" secondary. I thought Ray was a player on a team and a linebacker at that. Since when did he take ownership of the secondary. Ray Lewis undermines the coach. You can't have that with a new guy.

A new coach is going to have to bring these guys together as a team and I think our defense has considered themselves another team within the team.

Billick has let the veterans pretty much do their thing. A new coach can't do that. I think alot of guys on this team think they want a new coach, but may be in for a rude awakening if we get one.

**jonboy79** · 11-13-2007, 11:49 AM

I could see how a bit of a rebuild could do good. What if we tag and trade Suggs, Trade Ray, let McNair, Rolle and Ogden retire. We could then cut or trade Mason and MA. A bunch of spare parts around that could change as well. I think that would allow us to bring in talent in three ways. Young FA's with enhanced cap space, potentially some young guys buried on depth charts from above trades, and enhanced draft picks. In all three cases, I think the key is to get younger. We need to extend Brown and Scott as well.

**Purpleguy** · 11-13-2007, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

I could see how a bit of a rebuild could do good. What if we tag and trade Suggs, Trade Ray, let McNair, Rolle and Ogden retire. We could then cut or trade Mason and MA. A bunch of spare parts around that could change as well. I think that would allow us to bring in talent in three ways. Young FA's with enhanced cap space, potentially some young guys buried on depth charts from above trades, and enhanced draft picks. In all three cases, I think the key is to get younger. We need to extend Brown and Scott as well.

I agree with everything except Suggs. You need a premier pass rusher in this league, and Suggs is that. He's young as well.

**Mista T** · 11-13-2007, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

what players have to go as well?

Sayonara:

McNair, Rolle, Ogden for sure - frees up cap multi-millions.

Ivy & Troy Smith (just too little to play a big man's game)

Smith Bros Coughdrops -- if there are decent & healthy LBs to step in.

On the bubble:

Flynn (age/salary)
Figurs (scary watching him try to catch, and he's no 4th WR)
Stover (if there is a roster numbers issue)
Suggs (if salary demands cannot be compromised)
Darling (if a low round BPA beats him in Training Camp)
Dwan Edwards (if a low round BPA beats him in Training Camp)

I would not be surprised to see Wilcox and/or Mason move on or retire as well.

Ray Lewis will be back in 2008 -- unless he displays major attitude problems. Like him or not, he is the heart of a good defense.

**HoustonRaven** · 11-13-2007, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

Say we fire Billick. what players have to go as well?

I don't see how a new coach could deal with an ego like Ray Lewis. He was on the radio last night talking about "his" secondary. I thought Ray was a player on a team and a linebacker at that. Since when did he take ownership of the secondary. Ray Lewis undermines the coach. You can't have that with a new guy.

A new coach is going to have to bring these guys together as a team and I think our defense has considered themselves another team within the team.

Billick has let the veterans pretty much do their thing. A new coach can't do that. I think alot of guys on this team think they want a new coach, but may be in for a rude awakening if we get one.

I have no problem taking ownership of the defense. That's a trait of a true leader and he takes ownership when the D plays lousy too.

Even in the business world, people say it's "their" company / employer. Taking ownership is a good thing that should be promoted. He doesnt do it to undermine anyone.

**Losac** · 11-13-2007, 12:40 PM

Do you really think McNair will be cut after this year? Worst case scenario I think they let him compete for a backup role in camp, depending on how Boller finishes the year and if we pick a QB up through the draft or free agency.

Who should be gone:

Billick
Rolle
Ogden
Flynn
Mason (may decide to retire if we enter a rebuilding phase)

**Purpleguy** · 11-13-2007, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Mista T

Sayonara:

McNair, Rolle, Ogden for sure - frees up cap multi-millions.

Ivy & Troy Smith (just too little to play a big man's game)

Smith Bros Coughdrops -- if there are decent & healthy LBs to step in.

On the bubble:

Flynn (age/salary)
Figurs (scary watching him try to catch, and he's no 4th WR)
Stover (if there is a roster numbers issue)
Suggs (if salary demands cannot be compromised)
Darling (if a low round BPA beats him in Training Camp)
Dwan Edwards (if a low round BPA beats him in Training Camp)

I would not be surprised to see Wilcox and/or Mason move on or retire as well.

Ray Lewis will be back in 2008 -- unless he displays major attitude problems. Like him or not, he is the heart of a good defense.

Ivy is a decent back-up and he's not breaking the bank. Most teams would be screwed if they lost both their starting corners.

Eventually this team is going to have to get used to playing without ray. They have done okay in previous years when he pouted his way to injury.

**Purpleguy** · 11-13-2007, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Losac

Do you really think McNair will be cut after this year? Worst case scenario I think they let him compete for a backup role in camp, depending on how Boller finishes the year and if we pick a QB up through the draft or free agency.

Who should be gone:

Billick
Rolle
Ogden
Flynn
Mason (may decide to retire if we enter a rebuilding phase)

It would be incredibly foolish to pay Mcnair what he is making to compete for a backup role. Somehow I doubt he will restructure to a vet minimum salary. Mcnair is collecting his retirement right now.

**Last Don** · 11-13-2007, 02:00 PM

I definitely believe that McNair and Ogden will retire after this season. McNair's comments following the game this past Sunday were the comments of a man who has thrown in the towel.

I love how everyone in the media is consistently saying "If not Billick, than who?" What about Rex Ryan? He's already on the staff, knows the team, and the system. I feel that he's one of the top 3-5 candidates to be a head coach in the coming year, why not snatch him up before he gets away, if that's the direction Biscotti wants to go?

**crpravens** · 11-13-2007, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Last Don

I definitely believe that McNair and Ogden will retire after this season. McNair's comments following the game this past Sunday were the comments of a man who has thrown in the towel.

I love how everyone in the media is consistently saying "If not Billick, than who?" What about Rex Ryan? He's already on the staff, knows the team, and the system. I feel that he's one of the top 3-5 candidates to be a head coach in the coming year, why not snatch him up before he gets away, if that's the direction Biscotti wants to go?

Is Rex Ryan really a change? I mean, Ray thinks the defense is his not Rex's.. I want someone to come in and kick these players in the ass.. Someone who doesnt care about the players egos..

**highwater** · 11-13-2007, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Losac

Who should be gone:

Billick
Rolle
Ogden
Flynn
Mason (may decide to retire if we enter a rebuilding phase)

I can easily see Ogden and Rolle retiring -- in fact, I will be surprised if they don't -- but why should Mason retire? I think he still enjoys playing the game and it's not as if his effectiveness has totally disappeared, as it seems to have with McNair.

I would be surprised if McNair accepts a backup role beyond this year, but I guess it's possible (although clearly his contract would have to be flushed down the nearest toliet and redone).

**Mista T** · 11-13-2007, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Losac

Do you really think McNair will be cut after this year? Worst case scenario I think they let him compete for a backup role in camp, depending on how Boller finishes the year and if we pick a QB up through the draft or free agency.

Yes -- if Boller plays decently for the remainder of the season, or if the Ravens were to pick up a stud in the draft -- McNair would be too expensive to just hang around 1 Winning Drive and carry a clipboard. The cap savings of a post-June cut would be too tempting to ignore, especially for a washed up vet.

No -- if neither of the above and there is some type of beneficial restructuring of Mcnair's contract. And if there are so many other cuts & retirements that cap money is a non-issue.

Originally Posted by Last Don

I definitely believe that McNair and Ogden will retire after this season. McNair's comments following the game this past Sunday were the comments of a man who has thrown in the towel.

If McNair were to voluntarily retire, he'd walk away from $10+ million, i.e. $4 million 2008 salary & he'd be liable to return over $6 million in bonus money -- not likely. If cut, he'd forego salary, but keep the bonus money. perhaps there would be some compromise parting of the ways -- we can always hope.

**Losac** · 11-13-2007, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by crpravens

Is Rex Ryan really a change? I mean, Ray thinks the defense is his not Rex's.. I want someone to come in and kick these players in the ass.. Someone who doesnt care about the players egos..

Rex is a defensive coach, and not an offensive genius. He would undoubtedly bring in a fresh, new offensive coordinator who could install his own system.

Another guy I wouldn't mind seeing is Russ Grimm. I bet he's still pissed about being passed over for the Pittsburgh job and I'm sure he'd leave Arizona for a head coaching job and a chance to play the Stoolers twice a year.

Originally Posted by highwater

but why should Mason retire? I think he still enjoys playing the game and it's not as if his effectiveness has totally disappeared, as it seems to have with McNair.

Not that Mason's not effective anymore, I just think he wants to win as soon as possible and may not want to endure a few losing seasons by being part of a rebuilding process. Seemed he signed here thinking we had a shot at a Super Bowl, which is the one thing he's missing from his career.

**Purpleguy** · 11-13-2007, 06:09 PM

Sorry, but I don't see Rex as being the needed change. If anything I think we'd see less discipline under Rex. He's a jolly fellow and probably alot of fun to play for. That's not what this team needs.

Put me in as a Cowher guy. I'm a huge Billick fan, and always will be, but I think he's lost the team. The vets run the show, and Billick's message is stale with them. It's a shame, because I think alot of these circumstances are beyond Billick's control. It's hard to bench a QB making the money McNair is making with an all-pro history, and that was a call by the FO. Last year Billick did well calling the plays. I still think he calls a decent game (with the exception of 3 pass plays for 1 yard in Buffalo) but the execution isn't there. The inmates run the asylum and the inmates seem to have the ear of the FO more so than the coach.

**ravenjoe** · 11-13-2007, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

Put me in as a Cowher guy.

Make that two!

**Rochardrik** · 11-14-2007, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

Say we fire Billick. what players have to go as well?

I don't see how a new coach could deal with an ego like Ray Lewis. He was on the radio last night talking about "his" secondary. I thought Ray was a player on a team and a linebacker at that. Since when did he take ownership of the secondary. Ray Lewis undermines the coach. You can't have that with a new guy.

A new coach is going to have to bring these guys together as a team and I think our defense has considered themselves another team within the team.

Billick has let the veterans pretty much do their thing. A new coach can't do that. I think alot of guys on this team think they want a new coach, but may be in for a rude awakening if we get one.

Now, would you want a defensive captain not to think of the defense as "his"?
He may have a large ego, but that statement doesn't prove that, and I wouldn't want him to think any other way!

**Rochardrik** · 11-14-2007, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by ravenjoe

Make that two!

Include me OUT!! No Spittle for me! I'm trying to quit!

**tjameson52** · 11-14-2007, 10:42 AM

Ok, I will throw in my two cents...

Coach: In an ideal world, fire Billick after next week's loss, hire Rex Ryan as interim coach. If Ryan finishes the season well, keep him. If he doesn't, let him go next year and bring in an outside guy (I am thinking a Tomlin type) to shake things up ala this year's Steelers. The saddest thing in this scenario is losing a great coach in Ryan but he most likely wouldn't be willing to work under a new guy if he didn't get the head coaching job (and understandably so)... alas Billick got an extension last year and will probably be back next year sans play-calling duties...

QB: McNair's going to retire, I think we all agree on this. However, regardless of Boller's performance for the rest of the season, we need to draft our QB of the future in 2008. Let him play behind Boller Week 1 next year and work his way into the line-up when appropriate (Boller injury, Boller struggles, etc).

Mason: Let him do what he wants. If he returns, fine, he is still a great player. If not, move up the young guys.

Ogden/Flynn: It will be their decision, but I see Ogden almost definitely retiring, and probably his friend Flynn will go with him. However, we don't know Chester is the answer, so having Flynn around another year would be nice...

Secondary: Resign Ivy... he isn't expensive and is a great team guy. Rolle will probably retire assuming this illness is serious. Our big free agent acquisition this year should be a solid CB to replace Rolle. On a side note, I thought we spent too much money on McGahee last year. I believe money should be spent on O-Line, D-Line, QB, one great WR and two good CB's. The rest is fairly easily stocked via the draft, especially with our scouting system.

DE: Need another good DE to rotate in with Suggs/Pryce and protect us against future Pryce-like injuries... let Dwan go and draft/sign a DE... and resign Suggs (we may get him cheap after this season)!

Ray Lewis: What happens with Ray will depend on a million factors. Two biggest ones are... (1) How he finishes up the season attitude/leadership-wise and (2) Do we bring in a new coach who becomes worried about conflicting with the 'face of the franchise' and seeks to push him aside. Otherwise, it's Ray's call. Despite what some people say, he is still a great LB.

Front Office: Anyone blaming Ozzie/DeCosta for our problems this year is insane and proof passionate fans can lose basic reasoning skills when their team struggles.

Summary: I really think this whole blow-up the entire team thing is an over-reaction. Overall we are not an old team. We have a lot of young players, a couple old players, and not much in the middle, meaning their will be change as with any off-season; but the goal in the modern era is to keep the window of opportunity open, not to just blow-up the team anytime a couple games don't go your way... but that said, please fire Billick...

**Mista T** · 11-14-2007, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by tjameson52

QB: McNair's going to retire, I think we all agree on this.

I doubt that McNair retires, to give back $6+ million in signing bonus. Perhaps there would be a settlement with the Ravens to mitigate the cap impact, but a simple McNair retirement, with a swing of $10+ million (salary + bonus refund) seems unlikely to me.

Originally Posted by tjameson52

However, regardless of Boller's performance for the rest of the season, we need to draft our QB of the future in 2008.

If Boller consistently lights up the scoreboard [please stop laughing!!!!], hopefully the FO doesn't expend a high draft pick on a QB, given so many other needs. Two CBs and a speed rusher DE for beginners, a burner WR, more LBs to replace the injured Smiths as later round picks.

What if Boller and the WRs regain the touch that they displayed in the December 2005 night games? Over a seven game stretch, they could get into a groove. If so, we should have our starter for 2008, and he would be relatively youthful, obviating the temptation to invest a high pick.

Not that another QB wouldn't be added -- it could even be two to promote competition for Troy Smith (who may not be held in as high esteem as a bona fide NFL QB prospect by the coaching staff as by the FO and many fans). But free agency and/or low round picks or walk-on undrafted FAs may be the source(s).

And if a reasonable retirement settlement can be reached with McNair, and Ogden & Rolle are cleared off the payroll, there could be some walking around cap money to invest in the QB position rather than the high draft position crapshoot.

**RavenTD** · 11-14-2007, 11:31 AM

(I am thinking a Tomlin type) to shake things up ala this year's Steelers.

I was thinking the very same thing the other day.

Cowher had won his superbowl and had come to the end of his reign with the Steelers.The words would fall flat.He saw it,and smartly decided the time was right not to continue on and flog a dead horse. Tomlin has been like a breath of fresh air for the Steelers.Even I am impressed how this guy conducts his business,and talks to the media and players.

A new coach a new staff and a new approach,if the players do not fit the new mentality,its simple they are gone.Tiomeframe sooner rather than later, because if this listlessness continues things are going to deteriorate.And the fanbase will take the hit in the long run [it always does].

The best case scenario is Billick to get this ship back on an even keel.But I feel the damage has been done.And the Captain of the ship cannot find his way to the bridge.