We need to talk about Todd Heap.

**StingerNLG** · 11-15-2007, 02:32 PM

Sorry everyone, I need to bring up a topic that may be even more controversial than Kyle Boller and Brian Billick put together. We need to have a serious conversation about Todd Heap.

Now, before the torches and pitchforks come out, let me be clear. Heap has been great on the field. He makes all the good circus catches and seems to love to flip in the air when he's hit. He's got sure hands and runs solid TE routes.

WHEN HE IS HEALTHY...........................And folks, with Heap that has been quite the struggle.

At what point do we start talking about Heap being "injury prone"? Once again he's out of practice and likely not going to play this Sunday. He missed 10 games in 2004, a number of games last year, and now missing significant time this year.

I love what a healthy Heap brings to the table. But he's pretty much becoming more injured than healthy. Is anyone else getting concerned by this?

**Dont Know** · 11-15-2007, 02:37 PM

No, not really if the rest of the TEs are healthy, but with Wilcox basically out all season as well, we are down to our third string TE starting.

Maybe they should keep 4 TEs on the roster in the future and one FB. I can't really see a need for a 2nd FB other than special teams duty.

**AZRAVEN** · 11-15-2007, 03:00 PM

Yes, I have been concerned with Heap's durability for some time. Not so much that he gets dinged up because that is just the nature of football but his seeming inability to play through things. I'm not a doctor so I can't say how serious his injuries have been but it seems to me that he's very quick to keep himself out until he's near 100%. While every player would prefer to be at or near 100% on game day most are willing to play at less than that as long as they can contribute, Heap seems less so to me. JMO

**RAVENOUS52** · 11-15-2007, 03:17 PM

I'm concerned that Heap probably takes harder hits than 90% of the other NFL receivers...He's perpetually getting blasted after catches and drops.

Hopefully he can get better quick, but I don't beleive that Heap milks injuries at all. If he ain't playing, it's because he's not capable to at that time. Injury prone? I'm still on the fence about that...If he's not back by the time we play San Diego/Patriots/Colts though...

**UKRavenStockers** · 11-15-2007, 03:27 PM

Games Heap has missed:

- 3 this season
- 10 in 2004
- 4 in 2001 (his rookie season)

Yeah, he's really injury prone isn't he? Heap is an elite TE, he struggles with his blocking at times but his pass catching is as good as there is and he is tough. Find him a quarterback who doesn't absolutely hang him out to dry on every throw into traffic and he'll stop missing games. Every other elite TE has had for large chunks of their career a QB who doesn't lead him into the big hits, doesn't make him work for every reception, Heap has never had that and it's a mark of his career that he's still put up good numbers for a TE in spite of this, he's never put up the elite numbers, but if we find him the right QB, he will.

**Poe86** · 11-15-2007, 03:32 PM

He's a devout Mormon. Don't they forgo drugs of any kind? I don't think he can even get a cortisone shot. That's why he seems to take forever to heal.

**RavenTD** · 11-15-2007, 03:47 PM

Yep, with the passing accuracy problems,and Heap showing no fear going for the ball,you are asking for a physical pounding.

Heap gets a pass from me. He isn't no Dan Cody!

**Rayvens52** · 11-15-2007, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by RavenTD

Yep, with the passing accuracy problems,and Heap showing no fear going for the ball,you are asking for a physical pounding.

Heap gets a pass from me. He isn't no Dan Cody!

Yea the guy takes more shots than anyone else I know, we should be blamming Mcnair and Boller for hanging him out to dry on some of those passes. I don't think for a minute he is waiting to be 100%, i think he is truly hurt. I hope this doesn't turn out to be another thread on a great Raven you guys want to see us cut!

**purplepoe** · 11-15-2007, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers

Games Heap has missed:

- 3 this season
- 10 in 2004
- 4 in 2001 (his rookie season)

Yeah, he's really injury prone isn't he? Heap is an elite TE, he struggles with his blocking at times but his pass catching is as good as there is and he is tough. Find him a quarterback who doesn't absolutely hang him out to dry on every throw into traffic and he'll stop missing games. Every other elite TE has had for large chunks of their career a QB who doesn't lead him into the big hits, doesn't make him work for every reception, Heap has never had that and it's a mark of his career that he's still put up good numbers for a TE in spite of this, he's never put up the elite numbers, but if we find him the right QB, he will.

See, here's the problem with those stats.

How many games has Heap been active but left early because of aggravating an existing injury? It's happened twice already this year. Those games listed above are games that he was deactivated. But I bet if you look a little deeper you'll find alot of games that he was dressed but played a very limited role.

I do agree with the observations that the way Heap has been used has led to many bone crunching hits. He's hung out to dry every game. He has to wait many times for the ball to get to him which results in unneeded hits. I wonder what % of passes he's caught have been when he's facing the QB while standing still. It's alot.

I don't think Heap is soft at all. I don't think he milks injuries. But he's got a huge contract and we need him on the field.

The saddest part is that when Heap is out our offense takes such a big hit. Sure, he's a big part. But really, him being out shouldn't be such a big thing. But with this offense, sadly it is.

PP

**StingerNLG** · 11-15-2007, 04:55 PM

A couple of quick things:

1) I am in no way calling for Todd Heap to be cut. I don't hate Todd Heap. I never said he was milking his injuries. I am merely getting concerned about his now-almost-constantly being hurt.

2) As PP said, there have been times even this year that he's STARTED a game, then left quickly, leaving Quinn Sypnewski as the lone TE for the game.

3) His injuries haven't always resulted from being hung out to dry. His 2004 ankle sprain was on a run-blocking play. He's been nursing a hamstring issue which has kept creeping up on him this year. Neither of which is the result of getting hit. This isn't all because he's taking big hits.

**purplepoe** · 11-15-2007, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

A couple of quick things:

1) I am in no way calling for Todd Heap to be cut. I don't hate Todd Heap. I never said he was milking his injuries. I am merely getting concerned about his now-almost-constantly being hurt.

2) As PP said, there have been times even this year that he's STARTED a game, then left quickly, leaving Quinn Sypnewski as the lone TE for the game.

3) His injuries haven't always resulted from being hung out to dry. His 2004 ankle sprain was on a run-blocking play. He's been nursing a hamstring issue which has kept creeping up on him this year. Neither of which is the result of getting hit. This isn't all because he's taking big hits.

Im with you 100%.

The facts are the facts. The guy has missed some games and has been active in some but not played nearly enough to make an impact.

I also think he's used incorrectly and sometimes much too late in games. How many times have we been in close games and Heap's first catch comes late in the 3rd or early in the 4th quarter? I realize he's gonna draw alot of attention, especially in this offense, but there's no excuse not to get him involved early when he does play.

I brought up the milking thing because someone else mentioned it. I realize you weren't insinuating that he does that.

We gave Heap a huge amount of money too. I know he's been great for this team but IIRC he was the highest paid TE in the league when he signed that deal and Im pretty sure he's still in the top 4 or so.

The bottom line is that we need this guy in our lineup in a bad way. And with Wilcox being down still, it's really hamstrung (no pun intended) our offense.

Im not sure what the deal is with Wilcox but at some point you've gotta IR him so we can get another healthy body at TE. Going into games with just Sypnewski is ridiculous IMO. It severely limits alot of things we can do as far as play calling, formations etc......

This subject is just another in the long list of things that have gone wrong this year.

PP

**ravenwoman** · 11-15-2007, 06:43 PM

It all comes down to the play calling and the limited offense we run. Todd Heap takes more hard hits and more than a few cheap shots. He really tries to be in every game, and I will give him a pass every time. It is unfortunate that our offense (as limited as it is) is even more crippled when he is out.

**ravenjoe** · 11-15-2007, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Poe86

He's a devout Mormon. Don't they forgo drugs of any kind? I don't think he can even get a cortisone shot. That's why he seems to take forever to heal.

This is something we need to keep in mind. While other players take a shot, to help them play through pain, Heap foregoes this procedure.

**Mr.Boh** · 11-15-2007, 07:15 PM

Heap is not that devout. I heard him on the radio a few seasons ago when he was out for awhile and he dispelled the rumor that he wasnt using everything available to heal. He said that certain mormons wouldnt, the same level of orthodoxy that wont drink caffiene. Heap then stated that he enjoys the occasional coke.

**jonboy79** · 11-15-2007, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers

Heap is an elite TE, he struggles with his blocking at times

That's like saying the Grand Canyon is a pretty big hole in the ground...

He's a great passcatcher, period. Unfortunately, ther eis a LOT more to being a TE then simply catching passes. There is running routes, of which he is also top notch, and ther eis breaking tackles , and blocking, both of which he is putrid at. Ther eis also staying on the field. NOtice that everythign physical is what he isn't good at. The reason he is a poor blocker is that he seems to shy away from contact, kinda the whole point of blocking. He is sofT, with a capital T.
I wouldn't cut the guy, btu like I've been saying on this forum and the other for a couple of years now(before the extension) he simply isn't an elite all around TE. He is a glorified, large body, WR, who is slow for THAT position. Mark Clayton is a better run blocker. That says something. And yes, that is nothing more then my visual recollection.

**4G63** · 11-15-2007, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by purplepoe

I do agree with the observations that the way Heap has been used has led to many bone crunching hits. He's hung out to dry every game. He has to wait many times for the ball to get to him which results in unneeded hits. I wonder what % of passes he's caught have been when he's facing the QB while standing still. It's alot.

I don't think Heap is soft at all. I don't think he milks injuries. But he's got a huge contract and we need him on the field.

The saddest part is that when Heap is out our offense takes such a big hit. Sure, he's a big part. But really, him being out shouldn't be such a big thing. But with this offense, sadly it is.

PP

All good points.....he's ALWAYS stretched out when making a catch, never seems to be in stride.......

**Rayvens52** · 11-15-2007, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

That's like saying the Grand Canyon is a pretty big hole in the ground...

He's a great passcatcher, period. Unfortunately, ther eis a LOT more to being a TE then simply catching passes. There is running routes, of which he is also top notch, and ther eis breaking tackles , and blocking, both of which he is putrid at. Ther eis also staying on the field. NOtice that everythign physical is what he isn't good at. The reason he is a poor blocker is that he seems to shy away from contact, kinda the whole point of blocking. He is sofT, with a capital T.
I wouldn't cut the guy, btu like I've been saying on this forum and the other for a couple of years now(before the extension) he simply isn't an elite all around TE. He is a glorified, large body, WR, who is slow for THAT position. Mark Clayton is a better run blocker. That says something. And yes, that is nothing more then my visual recollection.

Are you serious??????? Did you really just call him soft?????? What the hell have you been watching for years? He is one of the best TE in the league, is he the best blocker, maybe not but I will take everything else he does over blocking any day. Soft........wow I don't know any TE that has taken more hard hits than him. YOU ARE CRAZY

**jonboy79** · 11-15-2007, 07:54 PM

Have you ever seen him try and BLOCK? I haven't and I've seen basically every game the Ravens have played since he's been on the roster. He AVOIDS contact in the run game. Avoids it, and is still hurt a bit shy of 25% of games while under contract. There are a good handful of players I would take over him as a passcatcehr and EVERY SINGLE ONE is a better blocker. He gets nothing after the catch.

**Rayvens52** · 11-15-2007, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

Have you ever seen him try and BLOCK? I haven't and I've seen basically every game the Ravens have played since he's been on the roster. He AVOIDS contact in the run game. Avoids it, and is still hurt a bit shy of 25% of games while under contract. There are a good handful of players I would take over him as a passcatcehr and EVERY SINGLE ONE is a better blocker. He gets nothing after the catch.

Are you even looking at what your write? He avoids contact, really he plays in the NFL and takes harder hits than maybe any TE or WR in the game, puts himself out to get killed all the time yet he is scared to block

You may be the dumbest person I have ever met. Yea i'm sure everytime he lines up he's like oh shit i hope that guys 2 feet in front of me doesn't hit me i'm so scared, but god i hope when i get free over the middle i get crushed since that is what always happens, but just don't let this DE hit me

You say you watch every game, well i would tell you that you need to stay sober one day and watch a game because you have no clue what the hell you are talking about!!!!!

**ClericBlackDave** · 11-16-2007, 12:32 AM

Heap has been oft-injured, and actually am of the opinion that his being Mormon probalby mean he doesn't take shots and supplements, etc as much as some other athletes.

Of course, our QBs haven't helped thatmuch, but his style is that he takes contact on rather than fall down. I think he's a very tough guy.

I'm not sure that he does everything possible to recover. Does he have a hyperbaric chamber? If he doesn't, he should get one.