Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.

[OwingsMillsAlex]

From what I could stomach reading this thread you all say that Billick should go because he didn't call a running play. YET what would you all be saying if he had called the running play and A) McGhee goes backwards for loss of yards, B) Boller or McGhee drop the ball and Cleveland recovers, or C) both 2-1 and 3-1 the ball goes nowhere fast and were stuck with a long field goal that may or may not make it through the uprights???

Stop blaming Billick for every little thing this team does or doesn't do. He doesn't pick who is on Special Teams...that would be Frank Ganz (sp?) Jr. He doesn't pick who is active for the Defense...again, that would be Rex Ryan. And from what I understand from the Willie McGhee show, Boller has been calling some audibles in the huddle and who knows if and when he decides to make the change in the play. So to say we should have done this or done that is just pointless.

Now I have to go. My posts are malfunctioning so I can't review the play on the field.

[RavenTD]

Billick is so wrapped up in calling plays and trying to save his ass in the eyes of the world.He has lost touch with what is happening in the game.Obviously his play calling chart,and what to call in certain situations is totally skewed.

Billick if you want to save your neck,put down your playbook next season and let the new Off' co'ord bring in his own.He should become a Joe Paterno type coach.Just standing on the sideline as a figurehead,letting his co-ordinators run the gametime show.

[AA-Raven]

that series yes you can blame Billick for and the calls that he made/didn't make, but the entire game and the loss is not Billicks fault imo.

Play calling can always be questioned by us the fans, no matter if we win or lose the game.

I am however in the Billick should go band.....this offense with him as the HC (no matter if next season he totally gives up reins of the offense to another or not) will never improve, and after 9 yrs seems as if to me he doesn't have the same ability to get this team prepared week in and week out.......same old song and dance speach probably before the game and during halftime I guess

[WxKevin]

How many timeouts did Cleveland have when they got the ball back? I don't remember. If it was 2 then running and not making the 1st down wouldn't have made a difference.

Second, for those who weren't at the stadium, the wind was swirling in the stadium. FGs were not a given yesterday as could be seen by Dawsons miss in the 1st quarter and his near miss to end the game...oh sorry, the end of the game that was overturned. If for some reason Willis got caught in the backfield now you are talking about a 50 yard FG in that swirling wind.

There were pros and cons to running/not running on that play.

[FHRaven]

From what I could stomach reading this thread you all say that Billick should go because he didn't call a running play. YET what would you all be saying if he had called the running play and A) McGhee goes backwards for loss of yards, B) Boller or McGhee drop the ball and Cleveland recovers, or C) both 2-1 and 3-1 the ball goes nowhere fast and were stuck with a long field goal that may or may not make it through the uprights???

Stop blaming Billick for every little thing this team does or doesn't do.

In all three cases I would say he made that right call. That's the point. Running the ball twice, or at LEAST once is the no-brainer coaching move of the year.

Instead he decided to pass so the negative scenarios were: A) interception, B) incomplete passes that stop the clock and give the other team the opportunity to tie the game. Guess which one happened.

I agree that you can't blame the coaches for every single thing that happens on the field. The players play the game. But this was an obvious case where the coach made the wrong the decisions and it cost the team the game. As purplepoe pointed out, the worst part is he did the same thing earlier this year and ADMITTED he made a mistake. AND THEN HE DID IT AGAIN!! UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WxKevin]

Here is the answer from NFL.com:
---------------------------------------

3-M.Stover kicks 66 yards from BAL 30 to CLE 4. 16-J.Cribbs to CLE 43 for 39 yards (28-J.Winborne). 1-10-CLE 43 (:26) 3-D.Anderson pass short right to 84-J.Jurevicius ran ob at CLE 49 for 6 yards. 2-4-CLE 49 (:11) (Shotgun) 3-D.Anderson pass deep middle to 17-B.Edwards to BAL 33 for 18 yards (21-C.McAlister). Timeout #1 by CLE at 00:03. 1-10-BAL 33 (:03) (Field Goal formation) 4-P.Dawson 51 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-64-R.Pontbriand, Holder-15-D.Zastudil. Kick hit crossbars and bounced back. Play Challenged by Replay Assistant and REVERSED. (Field Goal formation) 4-P.Dawson 51 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-64-R.Pontbriand, Holder-15-D.Zastudil. CLV 30 BLT 30 Plays: 3 Possession: 0:26

Cleveland took their 1st time out for the end of regulation FG. Running it on 3rd down would not have changed anything as Cleveland would have immediately taken a timeout to stop the clock. Even if they ran on 2nd AND 3rd down, Cleveland would have taken timeouts on both plays and still have a timeout to set up for a FG.

[FHRaven]

Here is the answer from NFL.com:
---------------------------------------

3-M.Stover kicks 66 yards from BAL 30 to CLE 4. 16-J.Cribbs to CLE 43 for 39 yards (28-J.Winborne). 1-10-CLE 43 (:26) 3-D.Anderson pass short right to 84-J.Jurevicius ran ob at CLE 49 for 6 yards. 2-4-CLE 49 (:11) (Shotgun) 3-D.Anderson pass deep middle to 17-B.Edwards to BAL 33 for 18 yards (21-C.McAlister). Timeout #1 by CLE at 00:03. 1-10-BAL 33 (:03) (Field Goal formation) 4-P.Dawson 51 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-64-R.Pontbriand, Holder-15-D.Zastudil. Kick hit crossbars and bounced back. Play Challenged by Replay Assistant and REVERSED. (Field Goal formation) 4-P.Dawson 51 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-64-R.Pontbriand, Holder-15-D.Zastudil. CLV 30 BLT 30 Plays: 3 Possession: 0:26

Cleveland took their 1st time out for the end of regulation FG. Running it on 3rd down would not have changed anything as Cleveland would have immediately taken a timeout to stop the clock. Even if they ran on 2nd AND 3rd down, Cleveland would have taken timeouts on both plays and still have a timeout to set up for a FG.

Kevin, I have to disagree. In fact it underscores the point. They had 3 seconds to kick the field goal. If we run it twice they most likely do not have that time. Even a run for no gain typically takes a few more seconds off the clock than the short incomplete passes we attempted.

At the very least, it puts more pressure on Cleveland knowing they only have one TO left to setup the FG.

[Sephy]

Kevin: I like our chances to convert when running on 2nd or 3rd and 1 better. If you get a first down, not only do you force them to take one TO, but to burn all 3.

Who knows, if you run it, maybe they don't even get to that last pass. The FG was taken at 4 seconds.

[ExiledRaven]

OK....my point about Billick-Stover is very simple

If Billick is so scared that Stover cannot make a 47 yard field goal....making that the reason he decides to throw on 3rd and 1 instead of running....then that is a problem. Stover needs to have Billick's confidence to make a FG of that range...You have to trust your kicker. If Billick can't trust Stover, then what's the point. Get a new kicker that Billick trusts to make a kick you really need to make to be effective in the NFL.

Sorry for the other, but also next time, please look at context. I in no way said Stover sucks and needs to go. I said either Billick doesn't trust him, or Billick called a dumb play independent of that....both of which are bad things.

[AA-Raven]

OK....my point about Billick-Stover is very simple

If Billick is so scared that Stover cannot make a 47 yard field goal....making that the reason he decides to throw on 3rd and 1 instead of running....then that is a problem. Stover needs to have Billick's confidence to make a FG of that range...You have to trust your kicker. If Billick can't trust Stover, then what's the point. Get a new kicker that Billick trusts to make a kick you really need to make to be effective in the NFL.

Sorry for the other, but also next time, please look at context. I in no way said Stover sucks and needs to go. I said either Billick doesn't trust him, or Billick called a dumb play independent of that....both of which are bad things.

oh I would have to say that Stover is the only player Billick has confidence in, and personally speaking why shouldn't he? after all he's been our best player in Billick's tenure as HC here.....

[ExiledRaven]

Hmmm... Billick is not going anywhere. With 4 years on contract, it makes it a bit difficult to just fire him. As for the comment that Stover must go... that is just plain stupid. No matter how you try to explain it, it is stupid.

I disagree. I am not saying stover must go. I am saying if Billick can't trust Stover to make a 47 yard field goal and feels like he's forced to throw on 3 and 1 because of that....then stover needs to either get Billick's confidence or go.

I don't think that's unreasonable or a stupid thing to say. it's a 47 yard field goal, you don't make it in the NFL if you can't kick a 47 yarder.

[ExiledRaven]

oh I would have to say that Stover is the only player Billick has confidence in, and personally speaking why shouldn't he? after all he's been our best player in Billick's tenure as HC here.....

Right...that's just the only compu-coach reason I could even think of that made any kind of sense other than Billick being a total loon.

...I hope it's not true.

[StingerNLG]

Kevin, you have to also take into account they were at 2nd and 1. If we run the ball, and get the 1st down, we could have forced Cleveland to chew up all three of their timeouts at that point.

From what I could stomach reading this thread you all say that Billick should go because he didn't call a running play. YET what would you all be saying if he had called the running play and A) McGhee goes backwards for loss of yards, B) Boller or McGhee drop the ball and Cleveland recovers, or C) both 2-1 and 3-1 the ball goes nowhere fast and were stuck with a long field goal that may or may not make it through the uprights???

That is a chance you have to take. What if Boller didn't incomplete those passes and instead was sacked for a 5-8 yard loss? Then you're out of field goal range AND the clock stopped.

You always run the ball in that situation. That is what you pay Willis McGahee for, to get the ball in the middle of the field and ahead for a single yard.

Passing the ball was the worst mistake in the game. Bottom line.

[RavenLisa]

Yeah should have run the ball. However yes this team is stuck with Billck. They gave him way too long of a contract more years to suffer Raven fans

[4G63]

From what I could stomach reading this thread you all say that Billick should go because he didn't call a running play. YET what would you all be saying if he had called the running play and A) McGhee goes backwards for loss of yards, B) Boller or McGhee drop the ball and Cleveland recovers, or C) both 2-1 and 3-1 the ball goes nowhere fast and were stuck with a long field goal that may or may not make it through the uprights???

You can "what if" everything until your blue in the face.......but you can't argue the fact that we were averaging somewhere around 5-6yds A CARRY in the second half and we should have ran it twice in that situation, if for nothing else than to take time off the clock!

McGahee, even on a broken play, rarely goes backwards and I can't see them stopping us in that situation....

[festivus]

How many timeouts did Cleveland have when they got the ball back? I don't remember. If it was 2 then running and not making the 1st down wouldn't have made a difference.

Important point. There were three timeouts. This was NOT the Bills game redux, it was not the same situation. Cleveland had 3 timeouts, clock management was *not* the overriding factor. The overriding factor was putting points on the board, a touchdown if possible.

With 30+ seconds on the clock, inside makeable field goal range but the opponent has all 3 timeouts left, it was a judgement call whether to press for more. If the first pass falls incomplete we are *glad* for that if the second is complete for the first down; we still have time to take shots into the end zone. It didn't happen, instead, two incomplete passes later, all we had to do was (a) kick the field goal, and (b) stop them from scoring with ~30 ticks left on the clock. Well, we didn't do it.

Failures of execution on special teams, and of the offense in the first half, really stood out to me in this game, much moreso then our second guessing of "would've could've" of the coaching staff.

The offense executed poorly in the first half with poor blocking and passing. Special teams executed poorly all game long. The defense played generally well but at the end could not get off the field on two game-deciding drives.

Go ahead and hang Billick from the nearest tree if you all want. I didn't see the game the same way you guys did, I guess.

[terpsnoone]

I disagree - there was no reason to take shots at the end zone

All you had to do was milk the clock & kick a field goal - Game over

We had 2 downs to make 1 yard - we should be able to do that running the ball


If we make the 1 yard running we win.

[festivus]

Yes but if we make the 1 yard passing we win too. That was my point.

[Greg]

47 yards was still long for Stover. We were trying to pick up a few more yards.

And we got no more. We could have run for the first down and probably gotten 5-6 yards, they were playing pass. Even if we just get 2 and a first down we dirt the ball and still have 20 seconds at least left, we are 2nd and 10 with a time out in the pocket. We can then throw.

I was standing there and my wife and the guy next to me can attest to this, AND I SAID THIS TO GET MORE YARDS, "we can still run the ball, let's run it once."

[terpsnoone]

Passing unsuccessfully in that situation is like giving the opposition a free time out

Running unsuccesfully is not - that is the difference

That is my point