I think the Sun has got it right....

**Bez513** · 11-20-2007, 08:10 AM

I read this in today's edition. I say I agree 100% with the suggestions.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/f...,2365176.story

I think Hensley makes good points and I can't argue against any point he's made. I wish Billick would seriously make these changes but I doubt he will.

**ravenjoe** · 11-20-2007, 08:47 AM

I'd be inclined to agree with that, EXCEPTthat I want this team to field the best team possible when we meet the Squeelers, the last game of the season. I want the Ravens to play the role of spoilers, if, in fact, we can be. If the Brownies run the table, which is possible, given their schedule, the Steelers will be, in all likelihood, tied with them come the last week of the season (and will hold the tiebreaker over the Browns). The Ravens can then ruin the Steeler's bid at the Divisional title by beating up on them - my Xmas wish is for the Ravens to beat the Steelers into submission, just like we did last year.

**festivus** · 11-20-2007, 09:30 AM

We have to field the best OL we can. I don't know whether that means subbing for Flynn, but I doubt it means subbing for JO.

If the goal is to see what Boller is capable of, and what the play calling can do, we don't need him getting killed worse than he already is. To quote Col. Whatshisname from Rambo, "You're gonna need a lot of body bags."

**FellsPointRaven** · 11-20-2007, 09:34 AM

It's still too early to make wholesale changes. As seemingly ridiculous and unrealistic as it may seem, this team still has a mathematical chance of making the playoffs. OK, so we need to run the table. And OK, we'll need to beat one of the best teams to ever take the field in pro football. But while there's a chance, I'd be extremely depressed if Billick threw in the towel, withdrew a few hurting vets and called it quits on the season while there's still a chance of salvaging something.

The fat lady is tuning up, but she hasn't opened her mouth yet. If we lose the next two, then we can start prepping with next season in mind. Right now all we should be thinking about is putting out our strongest team to get a win in San Diego on Sunday.

**Mista T** · 11-20-2007, 12:04 PM

I would be quite pissed off to attend three more home games while watching the best players sit on the bench. I didn't fork out thousands to watch exhibition games in November & December. The NFL has scheduled four exhibition games in the summer of 2008 for watching the young players.

**4G63** · 11-20-2007, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by festivus

We have to field the best OL we can. I don't know whether that means subbing for Flynn, but I doubt it means subbing for JO.

Did you see JO get blown up all game?

Originally Posted by FellsPointRaven

It's still too early to make wholesale changes. As seemingly ridiculous and unrealistic as it may seem, this team still has a mathematical chance of making the playoffs.

Please tell me you're pulling our leg! Mathematical, Yes! Realistic, HELL NO!! Thats just crazy!!

Originally Posted by FellsPointRaven

OK, so we need to run the table. And OK, we'll need to beat one of the best teams to ever take the field in pro football. But while there's a chance, I'd be extremely depressed if Billick threw in the towel, withdrew a few hurting vets and called it quits on the season while there's still a chance of salvaging something.

I highlighted a point in your above paragraph. Whats with the blind loyalty with this team? If JO can't get it done on the field, then why is he playing?

Thats why the Patriots are the best team in the league. The coach doesn't give a shit what you did last year or even last week. They put their TEAM in a position to win, and do it with the personnel they think gives them the best chance TO WIN!!!! Adalius Thomas sat out most of the Colts game because they didn't think he would be the best option against them. Think about that for a minute!!

**AZRAVEN** · 11-20-2007, 12:26 PM

I agree with the Sun. As much as I'd like to believe we can salvage this season I just don't see us beating the second best team in the league let alone best team to ever be assembled when we haven't been able to beat the worst defenses in the league. The question to me is, are the best players on the field now? I have my doubts but the only way we'll know is to give some different faces a chance. Between the injuries we have and the players not living up to expectations I don't see the point in staying on the same path. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? I don't think McNair is the best we have, yet he may be back in a couple weeks. I don't think JO is the best anymore but there he is; and there are others. I realize that since I'm not a PSL or ticket holder I don't get a vote but I do know I sure as hell don't want to see next season unfold the way this one has. If it means some more pain this season, a season already lost, do it because I'm already numb to the ineptitude of this current team. JMO

**4G63** · 11-20-2007, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by AZRAVEN

I agree with the Sun. As much as I'd like to believe we can salvage this season I just don't see us beating the second best team in the league let alone best team to ever be assembled when we haven't been able to beat the worst defenses in the league. The question to me is, are the best players on the field now? I have my doubts but the only way we'll know is to give some different faces a chance. Between the injuries we have and the players not living up to expectations I don't see the point in staying on the same path. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? I don't think McNair is the best we have, yet he may be back in a couple weeks. I don't think JO is the best anymore but there he is; and there are others. I realize that since I'm not a PSL or ticket holder I don't get a vote but I do know I sure as hell don't want to see next season unfold the way this one has. If it means some more pain this season, a season already lost, do it because I'm already numb to the ineptitude of this current team. JMO

Correct....but Brian Billick doesn't understand this.....

**FellsPointRaven** · 11-20-2007, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by 4G63

Please tell me you're pulling our leg! Mathematical, Yes! Realistic, HELL NO!! Thats just crazy!!

So you're telling me you'd rather have a coach quit on the team and effectively tell them they're not good enough to win certain games? One of Billick's strengths is motivating players - if he made changes that intentionally weakened the team while they still have a shot, it would be saying "I don't believe in this current team" and would lead to the players losing any confidence in him and what he has to say in the future.

Originally Posted by 4G63

I highlighted a point in your above paragraph. Whats with the blind loyalty with this team? If JO can't get it done on the field, then why is he playing?

Although obviously rusty, if he stays healthy then J.O. will improve game by game and, THIS SEASON, gives us a better chance to win than, say Terry at LT and Yanda at RT. As I said in my above post, if and when we crash and burn in SD and against the Pats, then make changes.

**13ravenfan** · 11-20-2007, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by AZRAVEN

I realize that since I'm not a PSL or ticket holder I don't get a vote but I do know I sure as hell don't want to see next season unfold the way this one has.

PSL holders don't get a vote either. They just think so... Billick and company are going to do what they want with or without the buy-in of the fans.

**4G63** · 11-20-2007, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by FellsPointRaven

So you're telling me you'd rather have a coach quit on the team and effectively tell them they're not good enough to win certain games? One of Billick's strengths is motivating players - if he made changes that intentionally weakened the team while they still have a shot, it would be saying "I don't believe in this current team" and would lead to the players losing any confidence in him and what he has to say in the future.

Although obviously rusty, if he stays healthy then J.O. will improve game by game and, THIS SEASON, gives us a better chance to win than, say Terry at LT and Yanda at RT. As I said in my above post, if and when we crash and burn in SD and against the Pats, then make changes.

Everything I said applies now as well as AFTER they lose the next 2 games.....so we agree somewhat, but I think JO would help us more so on the sidelines.....

**4G63** · 11-20-2007, 02:48 PM

I think our next offseason pick should be Dante Scarnecchia. Tell me he isn't worth at least $1 million a year vs BB's $5 million.....

**ExiledRaven** · 11-20-2007, 03:11 PM

I think the Sun makes a lot of good points. Truth be told, I don't care what background the future head coach might be. Check out what Wade Phillips is doing in Dallas....let the Coordinator coordinate and focus on putting personnel in the best places for the group to do well.

Rex Ryan is, generally speaking, one of the best I've seen in that area. I'd be fine with him sticking around.

Many of the other points make sense....it's going to be a very interesting offseason.

Originally Posted by 4G63

I think our next offseason pick should be Dante Scarnecchia. Tell me he isn't worth at least $1 million a year vs BB's $5 million.....

Both of these offensive geniuses are on teams so loaded with talent I could be the offensive coordinator.

Pats: Brady, Moss, Maroney, Welker, Stallworth, Watson
Vikings: Cunningham, Moss, Chris Carter, Robert Smith, Jake Reed, Andrew Glover

I'd argue that the Pats have more talent than the 98 Vikings.

**AZRAVEN** · 11-20-2007, 03:15 PM

[QUOTE=FellsPointRaven;59392]So you're telling me you'd rather have a coach quit on the team and effectively tell them they're not good enough to win certain games? One of Billick's strengths is motivating players - if he made changes that intentionally weakened the team while they still have a shot, it would be saying "I don't believe in this current team" and would lead to the players losing any confidence in him and what he has to say in the future.

Do you think in their heart of hearts these players haven't already figured out they aren't good enough to win certain games? I don't believe this is as simple as just motivating them. They are proud professionals they wouldn't go out there every Sunday and crap the bed if they could do otherwise. This year, this team simply isn't up to the task for a multitude of reasons. Besides if the players feel about Billick the same way the fans do I seriously doubt they are listening to him at all.

**4G63** · 11-20-2007, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by ExiledRaven

Both of these offensive geniuses are on teams so loaded with talent I could be the offensive coordinator.

Pats: Brady, Moss, Maroney, Welker, Stallworth, Watson
Vikings: Cunningham, Moss, Chris Carter, Robert Smith, Jake Reed, Andrew Glover

I'd argue that the Pats have more talent than the 98 Vikings.

I didn't reference him because I want him necessarily as the head coach (although he wouldn't be bad), but for his O-line coaching ability! Honestly, can you name a better O-line in the last 7yrs than the Patriots?

**4G63** · 11-20-2007, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by FellsPointRaven

So you're telling me you'd rather have a coach quit on the team and effectively tell them they're not good enough to win certain games? One of Billick's strengths is motivating players - if he made changes that intentionally weakened the team while they still have a shot, it would be saying "I don't believe in this current team" and would lead to the players losing any confidence in him and what he has to say in the future.

Although obviously rusty, if he stays healthy then J.O. will improve game by game and, THIS SEASON, gives us a better chance to win than, say Terry at LT and Yanda at RT. As I said in my above post, if and when we crash and burn in SD and against the Pats, then make changes.

Brian IMO, has lost this team......I think that this loyalty to hurt/injured/non-productive players is what is killing this team! If I'm BB, I tell every player that I'm making changes to put us in a position to win, regardless of whether their tenured vets to green rooks....If you're not performing up to par, then you're getting benched, its as simple as that!!!

**ExiledRaven** · 11-20-2007, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by 4G63

I didn't reference him because I want him necessarily as the head coach (although he wouldn't be bad), but for his O-line coaching ability! Honestly, can you name a better O-line in the last 7yrs than the Patriots?

You've got me signed up right there, I was actually talking about trying to steal the pats o-line coach with my brother just now.

**BlackSunday** · 11-21-2007, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by ExiledRaven

You've got me signed up right there, I was actually talking about trying to steal the pats o-line coach with my brother just now.

Sounds like a plan - but is this doable?

1 - Wouldn't we have to get the Pats' approval to sign him, unless it were a promotion?

2 - He's been up there for 24 years. Why should he move, unless it entailed a promotion and a serious raise?

3 - Given the Pats' current personnel and cap status, why would he walk away from a situation where he has a reasonable chance of playing for "One for the nipple" in a decade or two?

If these problems can be overcome, however, the idea sounds promising.

BS