Interesting Notes Fron WNST On Our OL

**PurpleRulz** · 10-21-2006, 07:21 PM

On the Aaron and Bruce Show this morning, Aaron had some interesting things to say about the progress of our young OL. My comments in parentheses.

Jason Brown- Aaron Wilson stated that Brown is NOT a part of the problem with our OL. While Brown was thrown to the ground by the very strong Kris Jenkins, Jason has performed pretty well and will get better. Aaron feels that Brown's future is at guard and not center.

Chris Chester- The only things that Chester needs are experience and some weight. This is viewed as sort of a "redshirt year" for Chester, but he could fit prominently in our plans next year. He has the "smarts, skills, and athleticism to be a very good OL in the NFL. Aaron feels Chester's future is as our center. ( I think it is too early to call Chester a bust). Aaron says that Chester and Brown will play side by side on our OL for years to come. (I wish we could speed that future up).

Adam Terry- He still needs some toughness. He has all the skills to be a good OL in the NFL, but he has zero toughness. Aaron and Bruce joked that Terry needs to have his heart broken by a female, or to go through a tough divorce.

Tony Pashos- Both Aaron and Bruce mentioned that Peppers was a nonfactor this past Sunday. Pashos must be given some credit.

(My thoughts. Pashos will be a UFA after this season. I have a feeling that Ozzie will re-sign Pashos, but I think we should look at better options before attempting to re-sign Pashos. I will upset if we re-sign Pashos without exploring possible upgrades on the FA market. I do view Brown and Chester as two thirds of our starting OL, but we should still focus on drafting more OL for depth. Clarence Moore has shown that you can't teach toughness. I think we should look to draft or sign a LT of the future).

**RavensNTerps** · 10-21-2006, 08:17 PM

"Tony Pashos- Both Aaron and Bruce mentioned that Peppers was a nonfactor this past Sunday. Pashos must be given some credit."

Did they watch teh game. Dude had 8 tackles, 2 sacks, and 1 FF...

**purplepoe** · 10-21-2006, 09:46 PM

[/QUOTE]Chris Chester- The only things that Chester needs are experience and some weight. This is viewed as sort of a "redshirt year" for Chester, but he could fit prominently in our plans next year. He has the "smarts, skills, and athleticism to be a very good OL in the NFL. Aaron feels Chester's future is as our center. ( I think it is too early to call Chester a bust). Aaron says that Chester and Brown will play side by side on our OL for years to come. (I wish we could speed that future up).[/QUOTE]

So we traded upto get Chester in the 2nd round and he can't sniff the field? Anyone else think he would've been available on the 2nd day? And if not, there were some other guys out there that could be starting for us now that we passed up.

[/QUOTE]Adam Terry- He still needs some toughness. He has all the skills to be a good OL in the NFL, but he has zero toughness. Aaron and Bruce joked that Terry needs to have his heart broken by a female, or to go through a tough divorce.[/QUOTE]

Who's gonna take the blame for the lame ass scouting on this guy? Again, ANOTHER guy we traded up for in the 2nd round to get. And he's got no toughness? Brilliant job by the scout team on this one. Im so sick of the BS when it comes to the OL with this team. And I believe that they thought he could play RT when they drafted him. Why else take a guy who can "only" play LT when Ogden is still here and not expected to retire right away. Sure, he's hinted at it here and there but there was NO way he was retiring before last season and a slim chance before this season. Terry should not of been drafted where he was drafted. 2nd rounders should be immediate starters or at least solid contributors from the start. If Ogden comes back next year, which is entirely possible, then are we to assume that Terry will just sit for another season? That's a rhetorical question.

Originally Posted by RavensNTerps

"Tony Pashos- Both Aaron and Bruce mentioned that Peppers was a nonfactor this past Sunday. Pashos must be given some credit."

Did they watch teh game. Dude had 8 tackles, 2 sacks, and 1 FF...

I've been saying the same thing this whole week. Pashos got worked.

Seems like he's getting patted on the back for this game. I guess the expectations of a Ravens right tackle has reached a new low. Seriously. If you extrapolate Pepper's game on Sunday for a whole season, he'd project to have 32 sacks. And if you listen to people say Pashos held him in check, I guess you could add another, say, 10 sacks to that total since he'd obviously have some "better" games where the opposition didn't make him a "non factor".

How many more plays should Peppers have made to consider him a "factor" in the game on Sunday?

PP

**StingerNLG** · 10-21-2006, 10:46 PM

So we traded upto get Chester in the 2nd round and he can't sniff the field? Anyone else think he would've been available on the 2nd day? And if not, there were some other guys out there that could be starting for us now that we passed up.

Thank you.

Who's gonna take the blame for the lame ass scouting on this guy? Again, ANOTHER guy we traded up for in the 2nd round to get. And he's got no toughness? Brilliant job by the scout team on this one. Im so sick of the BS when it comes to the OL with this team. And I believe that they thought he could play RT when they drafted him. Why else take a guy who can "only" play LT when Ogden is still here and not expected to retire right away. Sure, he's hinted at it here and there but there was NO way he was retiring before last season and a slim chance before this season. Terry should not of been drafted where he was drafted. 2nd rounders should be immediate starters or at least solid contributors from the start. If Ogden comes back next year, which is entirely possible, then are we to assume that Terry will just sit for another season? That's a rhetorical question.

And thank you.

This also falls squarely on Ozzie Newsome. Ozzie trading up to draft these guys and hand the coaches 2nd round picks that can't make immediate contributions on the field is inexcusable. All of a sudden Terry has no toughness? (I thought it was funny BTW Bruce Cunningham saying Terry needs to have some fast woman come in and break his heart and make him mean, LOL). Chris Chester is a second rounder that can't play, but Jason Brown is playing for Mulitalo?

It's the same thing I said about DVD and Clarance Moore in the other thread. DVD is a 3rd round pick, and 6th round Moore gets more PT despite the really good preseason DVD had. That I put on Brian Billick.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 10-21-2006, 11:15 PM

Ozzie flat out blows when it comes to QB's and OL.

I just don't get how they don't see the suckiness of our OL. And thier stupid arrogance that they thought this same shitty line would be better after a year?

NEWSFLASH...the older linemen get, the less effective they get. And most don't decline gradually...it is usually a sharp quick decline.

I just don't get it.

**StingerNLG** · 10-21-2006, 11:26 PM

The ironic part of all this is that Ozzie was a Tight End. You'd think he'd have an appreciation for a strong offensive line. He had an excellent pick with Todd Heap. But Heap can't max protect every freaking down!

**darb72** · 10-22-2006, 01:53 AM

Maybe I should be working the offensive line drafting for the Ravens.

Who said we should do everything we could to get McNeil?

Who said Smiley would be one of the top guards taken?

That's right children. Write your local Ravens Front Office and demand that Darb72 be in charge of getting offensive linemen.

**UKRavenStockers** · 10-22-2006, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by darb72

Maybe I should be working the offensive line drafting for the Ravens.

Who said we should do everything we could to get McNeil?

Who said Smiley would be one of the top guards taken?

That's right children. Write your local Ravens Front Office and demand that Darb72 be in charge of getting offensive linemen.

Well I'll agree with you and say I had McNeil as my top tackle on draft board this year.

But I won't talk down on the Terry and Chester picks, Terry has lived up to his draft rep and his pass blocking technique is as good as we've got on the OL, I still think he's going to be excellent for us at LT when Ogden steps aside, he's never looked out of place when he's spotted Ogden if he's been injured the last two years and I don't expect that to change. Yes his leg drive is still lacking and we can't run cutback plays with him at LT because he can't drive his man in, but I'll trade that up for security in pass blocking anyday of the week.

As for Chester, no, he wouldn't have been available on day 2, his stock was rising fast in the last two weeks before the draft and his athleticism and strength was much sought after in this year's draft, you have to take some projects on day one because they have such great potential that they won't last to day two, Chester was a prime example of that, and it's something that our OL drafting philosophy hasn't gone into before. No, he's not going to contribute this year but you don't pass on guys in the draft just because he can't help in year one, WRs very very rarely make an impact in year one, but that doesn't mean you let them slip to round 2. QBs very rarely make a huge impact in year one, but that doesn't mean you let them slip. You can't judge Chester's draft stock on him not contributing this year, you judge his draft stock on what it was back at the end of April, we took him in the right place and it could still prove to be a good pick, you just have to be patient.

**UKRavenStockers** · 10-22-2006, 06:04 AM

So we traded upto get Chester in the 2nd round and he can't sniff the field? Anyone else think he would've been available on the 2nd day? And if not, there were some other guys out there that could be starting for us now that we passed up.

Guards or tackles or centres taken after we took Chester:

Ryan O'Callaghan - Apparently doing a good job at RT for the Pats, but they seem to just plug in warm bodies up there, I put that down to the system.
Max Jean-Gilles - Slipped due to concerns over weight, not starting in Philthy, no-one could say what he'd be doing here.
Eric Winston - Don't know whether he's starting or not in Houston.
Jeremy Trueblood - Stiff as a board and wouldn't be of much help at all at RT really, no upgrade on Pashos.
Charles Spencer - Moved to tackle and doing pretty well in Houston by all accounts.

None of these offer that great an upgrade over the current starters we've got in my opinion outside of Spencer, the only one I'm really annoyed we passed on was trading down past McNeil, that's my only regret with the trading back and picking up Chester.

**purplepoe** · 10-22-2006, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers

Well I'll agree with you and say I had McNeil as my top tackle on draft board this year.

But I won't talk down on the Terry and Chester picks, Terry has lived up to his draft rep and his pass blocking technique is as good as we've got on the OL, I still think he's going to be excellent for us at LT when Ogden steps aside, he's never looked out of place when he's spotted Ogden if he's been injured the last two years and I don't expect that to change. Yes his leg drive is still lacking and we can't run cutback plays with him at LT because he can't drive his man in, but I'll trade that up for security in pass blocking anyday of the week.

Sorry, but many other tackles have been drafted to play LT but play a different position until the incumbant retires or is cut. I don't think that trading up to get a guy in the 2nd round only to have him as a backup is any sort of plan. And he's been OK when he's in. Nothing special at all. Seriously. People are saying he has ZERO toughness. That's fine if he's a Punter or a Kicker. However, I'd like the "future" LT for out team to possess some toughness.

[/QUOTE]As for Chester, no, he wouldn't have been available on day 2, his stock was rising fast in the last two weeks before the draft and his athleticism and strength was much sought after in this year's draft, you have to take some projects on day one because they have such great potential that they won't last to day two, Chester was a prime example of that, and it's something that our OL drafting philosophy hasn't gone into before. No, he's not going to contribute this year but you don't pass on guys in the draft just because he can't help in year one, WRs very very rarely make an impact in year one, but that doesn't mean you let them slip to round 2. QBs very rarely make a huge impact in year one, but that doesn't mean you let them slip. You can't judge Chester's draft stock on him not contributing this year, you judge his draft stock on what it was back at the end of April, we took him in the right place and it could still prove to be a good pick, you just have to be patient.[/QUOTE]

I could really care less if his stock was rising. We need IMMEDIATE help at OL and cannot afford to give up a pick to draft a project in the 2nd round. Look, me may turn out to be a good guard. The problem is, this team is ready NOW to make a run and would have benefitted enormously from getting a solid young offensive lineman to play now. So we're left with Flynn and Vincent (and Mulitalo until he went down) and are once again seeing the same F'in results we've seen for years now. Im willing to be patient to an extent. But this is bullshit. Sure, we might have a decent OL in 2 years. We'll also be in complete rebuilding mode fighting for 7 or 8 wins. And we can draft guys like Terry and Chester in 07 and 08.

And one more thing. How about spending some REAL money on a lineman in free agency.

PP

**Sports Steve** · 10-22-2006, 09:31 AM

Edwin will be back next year. At that time Jason Brown can go back to his college position of center. I then would slide Mike Fylnn back to right guard where he was. I then would go into the draft to build the OL remember Ogden may retire so we need to start rebuilding soon.

As far as Adam Terry he does have to start getting mean on the field.

**StingerNLG** · 10-22-2006, 10:13 AM

Guards or tackles or centres taken after we took Chester:

Here's the thing though, Chester was a second round pick. There were only two people listed at center that went before him. One was Nick Mangold, and the other was Ryan Cook. Mangold is starting for the Jets because he's a 1st round pick. But the only reason Ryan Cook isn't playing is because Minnesota has two actual good centers ahead of him. Everyone one else at center was 3rd round pick or higher.

On the guard side, only one other guard was taken in the second round, and one in the first round. Everyone else is 3rd or higher.

A second round pick should see the field, at least in rotation if nothing else. And on a team like ours where the OL is a definite concern, there is no time like now to figure out if these guys can play.

**psuasskicker** · 10-22-2006, 12:09 PM

2nd rounders should be immediate starters or at least solid contributors from the start.

That's pretty funny dude.

Second rounders CAN become starters or immediate contributers. So can undrafted free agents. "Should" is too strong a word. There are guys that are drafted with a lot of talent that still need work to become viable NFL starters. Matt Jones immediately comes to mind.

Most offensive linemen, in fact, are the same way. For instance, Ogden, who looked very average at best at OG his first season, and has since become one of the best LTs in the game. Most do not make good or even viable starters their first season in the NFL...FIRST rounders included, nevermind second.
Jammal Brown
Chris Snee
Shawn Andrews
Jordan Gross
Levi Jones
All big time OLs that off the top of my head didn't have terrific first years if they even were regular starters, all drafted in the first round or very top of the second round.

It's unrealistic to expect every second rounder to be able to produce immediately.

Tony Pashos- Both Aaron and Bruce mentioned that Peppers was a nonfactor this past Sunday.

This is certifiably insane. Peppers was THE factor on Sunday.

Anyone else think he would've been available on the 2nd day? And if not, there were some other guys out there that could be starting for us now that we passed up.

No, he wouldn't have been. And it's never a good idea to look back at the draft and say "who could we have had". We could have had Tom Brady in the fifth round a couple years ago. You or I could be the best drafting GMs in the NFL if only we knew then what we know now. And on top of all of it, you don't look just to draft whoever can start for you. You draft who you think will make the biggest impact for years down the line.

A second round pick should see the field, at least in rotation if nothing else.

Rotating OL in and out doesn't happen. It's about like rotating QBs. You've never seen it effectively done, and probably never will.

I'm not saying our OL is great or anything. And I'm all for letting these guys hit the field and start playing for the future cause I feel like it can't get a whole lot worse with Flynn and Vincent. But the expectation that we've got massive failures just cause these guys aren't starts yet is just outside the realm of reality.

Does anyone here really think we'd be starting McNeil right now if we drafted him?

- C -

**darb72** · 10-22-2006, 04:13 PM

Considering McNeil was the offensive rookie of the month, then we really should have started him.

Given that Ozzie and Billick are total morons when it comes to the offensive line I doubt McNeil would see the field for the next five years because (insert royally stupid excuse here) I doubt we'd have played him.

Now McNeil should have been starting if he were here, but he wouldn't be.

**camdenyard** · 10-22-2006, 04:45 PM

( I think it is too early to call Chester a bust)

Well, no shit. Seeing as he's only 6 games into his pro career and has played briefly in one game.

As far as Adam Terry he does have to start getting mean on the field.

I hear this all the time, but it's bullshit. What you are really saying is that he's unable to execute the plays that he's assigned. You can be a junkyard dog and it's not going to help your strength or your technique. If you mean that he appears to play like a golly-gee yuk yuk hayseed with no passion or motor, then I can understand that. And that may be part of the problem. But he's just not getting it done in his 1-on-1 matchups, and if you can't do that, you are useless.

My problem with the Ravens is that they seem to draft (no...they trade UP to draft) guys that "need a year in the weight room". If they can't find a guy in the 2nd round in the whole country that has the physical ability to step in and contribute at least sometime during his 1st season, then again, I call bullshit.

**sandiegosean** · 10-22-2006, 04:46 PM

Marcus McNeil was picked after Chester.

**ladyraven127** · 10-22-2006, 05:04 PM

"If they can't find a guy in the 2nd round in the whole country that has the physical ability to step in and contribute at least sometime during his 1st season, then again, I call bullshit."

And I call it right along with you. Every other freakin' team seems to be able to plug someone in their line that they draft for the line. Why can't we

**darb72** · 10-22-2006, 05:08 PM

[/QUOTE] I hear this all the time, but it's bullshit. What you are really saying is that he's unable to execute the plays that he's assigned. You can be a junkyard dog and it's not going to help your strength or your technique. If you mean that he appears to play like a golly-gee yuk yuk hayseed with no passion or motor, then I can understand that. And that may be part of the problem. But he's just not getting it done in his 1-on-1 matchups, and if you can't do that, you are useless. [/QUOTE]

Remember that people used to say that Ogden lacked a mean streak.

Now about Terry. He's actually played well when he's had the chance. He slides his feet and can hit people in the open field. He's not nearly as good a run-blocker as Jon is, but not many people are. He's a wall off type guy and that's not really unusual for LTs.

**psuasskicker** · 10-22-2006, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by darb72

Given that Ozzie and Billick are total morons when it comes to the offensive line ...

Billick has nothing to do with the draft, but of course does with the starters.

Keep in mind that Ozzie is the guy that also picked up Ogden (when everyone in Baltimore b*tched about him not taking Lawrence Phillips), Mulitalo, Jeff Mitchell, Rabauch, and maybe some other OLs I'm forgetting that have turned into some pretty good linemen in this league. Ozzie isn't a guy who's draft & player evaluation prowess should be questioned anywhere except QB.

- C -