What do with this team. Draft a QB? Troy Smith? Fire Billick? hmmmm

[ClericBlackDave]

So this thread is just to start an honest overall discussion of what to do about fixing this team next year (other than getting healthy) and the pros and cons of all solutions.

I've been thinking about it more as I watched that sorry preformance last night


1) We don't need to overpay Terrell Suggs. I'm starting to think he's a real waste at DE. He doesn't have enough pass rush moves, he doesn't effectively use his hands/arms to disengage from players who are assigned to block him. Are his arms short or something? What is wrong with this guy? It seems like he expects to use sheer power alone to overcome the other player blocking him. We need to draft a new DE and coach him up better than Suggs


2) What to do about coaching? I would say fire Brian Billick. But I think if you fire Brian Billick, you're basically giving up on Boller (ok) but more importantly setting back Troy Smith (who we don't know a lot about right now). I think we definitely have to think of getting a new O Coordinator, and hopefully a new system. I'm FINALLY fed up with what we have. If we can't do it next year, then fire Billick.


3) At QB, what to do? Draft a QB? Start Troy Smith? Let Boller have at it for 1 more year? Really, the o-line played shitty enough last night (night and day v. the effort against the Patriots) that I don't know if we'll even get to know who the real Kyle Boller is v. the real Troy Smith or anyone else. 1st thing I think is get a real o-line. That'd give someone a real chance


4) WR/TE. I like to see that Devard Darling is growing. I still have hope for D Will, and Mason and Clayton are decent. What we need is an impact TE. Maybe that will be Heap being healthy, but like a lot of people I'm starting to wonder about him. If he can't get healthy, we don't have enough threats to open it up. I would draft an impact WR or TE.


5) CB. We need to draft a CB for depth. Our corners are old.


6) DT. We are thin at DT, and need to get healthy and draft more depth.

[Hook]

3) At QB, what to do? Draft a QB? Start Troy Smith? Let Boller have at it for 1 more year? Really, the o-line played shitty enough last night (night and day v. the effort against the Patriots) that I don't know if we'll even get to know who the real Kyle Boller is v. the real Troy Smith or anyone else. 1st thing I think is get a real o-line. That'd give someone a real chance

No, the oline is not at fault. We know who the real Boller is. He is the guy who locks in on one receiver and if that receiver is covered, he folds and doesnt know what to do. This has been the story for years. Enough is enough with Boller. Trent Dilfer was cut, we should have no problems saying goodbye to Kyle. Let him catch on with some other team.
We dont need this people.

[Losac]

CBD has been the biggest Boller apologist here. It's never Boller's fault. Always either the O-line or bad receivers. Boller does not have it. Period. This is his 5th year, and he has shown what he is - a decent backup. That's it.

This team needs to give Troy Smith a lot of playing time for these last 3 games to see what he can do, and if he doesn't show promise, then spend a high draft pick on a franchise QB (Matt Ryan!).

Oh, and fire Billick. I'm sick of his "we just have to fix the problems and go back to work" company line.

[Galen Sevinne]

So this thread is just to start an honest overall discussion of what to do about fixing this team next year (other than getting healthy) and the pros and cons of all solutions.

I've been thinking about it more as I watched that sorry preformance last night


1) We don't need to overpay Terrell Suggs. I'm starting to think he's a real waste at DE. He doesn't have enough pass rush moves, he doesn't effectively use his hands/arms to disengage from players who are assigned to block him. Are his arms short or something? What is wrong with this guy? It seems like he expects to use sheer power alone to overcome the other player blocking him. We need to draft a new DE and coach him up better than Suggs


2) What to do about coaching? I would say fire Brian Billick. But I think if you fire Brian Billick, you're basically giving up on Boller (ok) but more importantly setting back Troy Smith (who we don't know a lot about right now). I think we definitely have to think of getting a new O Coordinator, and hopefully a new system. I'm FINALLY fed up with what we have. If we can't do it next year, then fire Billick.


3) At QB, what to do? Draft a QB? Start Troy Smith? Let Boller have at it for 1 more year? Really, the o-line played shitty enough last night (night and day v. the effort against the Patriots) that I don't know if we'll even get to know who the real Kyle Boller is v. the real Troy Smith or anyone else. 1st thing I think is get a real o-line. That'd give someone a real chance


4) WR/TE. I like to see that Devard Darling is growing. I still have hope for D Will, and Mason and Clayton are decent. What we need is an impact TE. Maybe that will be Heap being healthy, but like a lot of people I'm starting to wonder about him. If he can't get healthy, we don't have enough threats to open it up. I would draft an impact WR or TE.


5) CB. We need to draft a CB for depth. Our corners are old.


6) DT. We are thin at DT, and need to get healthy and draft more depth.

I don't think Billick is going anywhere and to hope he gets fired is probably wasting time. Billick needs to look hard at hiring an O.C. for next year and let him bring in his own system and run it.

It looks like the Ravens front office agrees about Suggs as there is little discussion going on with signing him. They will make a fair offer at the end of the season...he wil probably be offended and test the free agent market.

I think we have to draft a QB and let him play behind Boller next year.

[Hook]

This is his 5th year, and he has shown what he is - a decent backup. That's it.

Last night was not the performance of a decent backup. Hes had many of these game. He is unreliable.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

The "real Kyle Boller" is the one you saw last night, not the one against the Patriots. He's had far more games like last night than he has like he had vs. the Pats. Regardless, they need to let Boller (or Smith) "have at it" one more year so they don't have to throw our drafted QB in there next year. I think we all need to come to the realization that next year is going to be another 5-11, 6-10 year.

I've been agreeing about Suggs, for a long time. Last night, there was a play, I watched Ngata, he took up, and I'm not exaggerating at all, three guys on one play, both G's and the C, and Suggs didn't come close to beating his guy. I thought the reason Suggs wasn't getting pressure was because he was getting doubled? Nope. Suggs is very, very overrated and worth nowhere near the money he's going to get. Giving him big money is a mistake Ozzie can not make.

[ExiledRaven]

Some interesting points....guess I'll go through them and give my take on things.

1) I agree. I think Suggs needs to get paid, but this year he's shown that he's not worth top dollar at DE or OLB or whatever. Sure he is a much more complete player, but I'd rather have fast old OLB Suggs than whatever this is this year. I might even see if teams are interested in him, then franchise and trade him somewhere for a 1st rounder. Danny Boy loves trades..I bet he'd do it. Then you've got a second first round pick won't happen though. Best thing they can do is resign Suggs to a slightly above average contract...if they overpay him they're killing the team.

2) I'm really not sure what to do with Billick. Sure, he's never had a QB the entire time he's been here. The team's now cut several interesting players that seem to be making it other places. Anderson for one, Redman we'll see what happens against the Saints. (How ironic is it that Teddy M cut Saturday?) Who the heck does the team bring in to replace Billick? that's what I am really scratching my head about. I really don't see how you can give Billick a pass this year...the TE's got hurt and he didn't adjust the scheme. The defense is hurt and he can't figure out a way to open up the offense. It's just been too long with zero results.

3) Smith should start against Miami. If Smith plays well against Miami, throw him into the fire. If Smith plays lights out the rest of the year, he's the answer at QB (if you can beat the seahawks and steelers I think that's safe to say). Then you can draft a second day guy like Dennis Dixon and focus on ....

4) I think TE is ok actually. Heap is hurt, Wilcox is a solid second option. Quinn is a 3rd string guy who is ok, of course he won't be explosive. Next year with a healthy Heap things will be better. WR on the other hand i think it might be wise to draft a WR. Yes, the team is crowded at WR with Mason, Clayton, Williams, and Darling. None of them are really explosive. Thus, I bring you Mario Manningham in the second round. Watch the kid play at Michigan as the only "real" downfield threat and he gets it done. I think he'll be special.

5) If Smith pans out or if the Ravens miss out on the 1st round QB run, I think without question a CB needs to be taken in the first round. Either Malcolm Jenkins from OSU, or Cason from Arizona. I could see Long or Campbell, but then the second round pick *must* be a CB...and who will be left I have no idea...but CB is a spot where everyone and their mother needs help with all of the 3 wide formations in the NFL these days.

6) The line is thin, I agree. I am a big Kendall Langford fan....I think he'd be perfect in the third round, though he may shoot up draft boards with the combine. Long or Campbell might make sense in the first, but then again, who knows. Pryce will be back as well, see if he can stay healthy, it might be possible to wait on this one who knows.

My additional #7
Free Agents....the Ravens are so hard up against the cap I don't see the team able to do much in free agency. The Raiders CB or Sammuel will cost a fortune that the team doesn't have...unless they franchise and trade suggs. That's about the only way something like that happens. Then that opens things up with Barnes entering the starting lineup..Edgar Jones gets playing time like Barnes did this year. It's just ugly. No DE's out there besides Allen from KC and if they don't franchise him the Chiefs are even more stupid than half of Boller's throws last night.

[StingerNLG]

CBD has been the biggest Boller apologist here. It's never Boller's fault. Always either the O-line or bad receivers. Boller does not have it. Period. This is his 5th year, and he has shown what he is - a decent backup. That's it.

This team needs to give Troy Smith a lot of playing time for these last 3 games to see what he can do, and if he doesn't show promise, then spend a high draft pick on a franchise QB (Matt Ryan!).

Oh, and fire Billick. I'm sick of his "we just have to fix the problems and go back to work" company line.

Nothing wrong with anything you said, BUT, do you really honestly believe we have a #1 WR on this team?

[Losac]

Nothing wrong with anything you said, BUT, do you really honestly believe we have a #1 WR on this team?

I think our top 3 receivers (Mason, Clayton, Williams) are very good, although I don't know what happened to Clayton this year - he seems to have disappeared. And Heap is a threat when he can actually get on the field.

But, after the top 3, there is a huge drop off. Darling has shown flashes but drops more than he catches, and Figurs needs to stick to returning kicks.

[copenhaggard]

Brian Billick needs to go. New entire offensive staff.

Rex needs to realize he cannot play his type of defense with the injuries we have. Adapt / change his strategy, or find a new job. I like Rex's style, but if it isn't plausible with the personnel due to injuries and whatnot, change it.

If we are healthy, and can run his defense, by all means Rex, have at it.

[RavenLisa]

I would not waste the money on Suggs. He doesn't show me anything but trying to be a showoff.

[copenhaggard]

I've been thinking about it more as I watched that sorry preformance last night


3) At QB, what to do? Draft a QB? Start Troy Smith? Let Boller have at it for 1 more year? Really, the o-line played shitty enough last night (night and day v. the effort against the Patriots) that I don't know if we'll even get to know who the real Kyle Boller is v. the real Troy Smith or anyone else. 1st thing I think is get a real o-line. That'd give someone a real chance

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, the "real" Boller.

How many more years does he need?
How many Pro Bowlers do we need on the OLINE before Boller has enough time Dave?

We already have McGahee, whom is taking pressure off of Boller, and giving him another option in the passing game.

Do we need a trio of HoF receivers for Boller to perform well????


Keep the excuses coming...

[xmradiodave]

Boller had more than enough time in many many plays. When he managed to throw the ball, it was a perfect strike... right into the numbers of a defender. That Monday night game against the Pats, he looked like a fucking superstar. Last night, he looked like shit. It was his game to lose, and he lost it.

[crazyraven]

Keep the excuses coming...

No no no no, the excuses have to stop. Its time to move foward without him. Why continue on with this. we can bring in any schlub and get the same results.

Hes a bust. Plain and simple.

Troy is the way to go for the rest of the season and possibly into next season, depending on what happens with Mcnair and his contract.

[ravenwoman]

I would not overpay T. Suggs. I would try to resign him, but definitely not overpay. The Ravens are on the verge of cap hell. They really overpaid Steve McNair, and unless some of the players retire or restructure their contracts, you will see some drastic changes next year. Regardless who we draft, the Ravens will be drafting high. There will be a huge salary there and we have a lot of aged players who are making big money.

T. Suggs had a great year last year because of Trevor Price and A.D. Without either one of them, he is unable to get to the QB or make other big plays.

The Ravens have so many holes to fill and a limited budget.

I would like the Ravens to hire the OC from Dallas as their next head coach, but I have a feeling that Wade Phillips will be retiring soon and they will promote him next.

[StingerNLG]

I think our top 3 receivers (Mason, Clayton, Williams) are very good, although I don't know what happened to Clayton this year - he seems to have disappeared. And Heap is a threat when he can actually get on the field.

But, after the top 3, there is a huge drop off. Darling has shown flashes but drops more than he catches, and Figurs needs to stick to returning kicks.

Clayton to his defense has been hurt this year. But he's not a #1 receiver on any team. He can't stretch the defense and hasn't really gotten much seperation from defenders.

Of course, he's not being sent deep either, so it's not all his fault either.

Having 3 #2 receivers is ok. But most good teams have a #1 guy that you know you can get a 40-50 TD out of once or twice a game.

[RustonRifle]

No no no no, the excuses have to stop. Its time to move foward without him. Why continue on with this. we can bring in any schlub and get the same results.

Hes a bust. Plain and simple.

Troy is the way to go for the rest of the season and possibly into next season, depending on what happens with Mcnair and his contract.

I have to agree ... Boller has had 40 plus starts as a QB. What you see now is what you get. I was hoping he could build off of last weeks performance but figured we'd see BollerBall much sooner than we wanted.


The season as been a dismal failure, it's time to see what we have to go forward with. Boller isn't capable of bringing this team success. This seems to be a good spot for Shannon's quote.

“I've got a better chance of winning the Kentucky Derby on the back of a donkey than they have of winning the Super Bowl with Kyle Boller.”

[4G63]

Boller WILL be our starting QB next year, even if we draft Matt Ryan!! I'm 99% sure of it....unless he gets hurt. The real question is what they're going to do with Smith. Are they going to give him more playing time this year? I'd like to see him against a 1st-string defense. I know he's short, but he has decent mobility and has a strong arm....I guess we'll all find out.

I'd like to see them get Chris Long or CB Terrell Thomas. These guys would have an immediate impact on our defense, especially Long. When we get constant pressure on the opposing QB, it makes the rest of the D that much better. If we were to get these guys in the first, then I'd have no problem getting Dennis Dixon in the late rounds.....

[ClericBlackDave]

To clarify this thread, i.e. to respond to people like Losac, I am NOT apologizing for Boller's sorry performance last night.


I am past that. What I am saying is that there is not consistent pass protection. What I saw from Troy Smith is that he made some plays outside the pocket that I liked, but again, protection was 3 seconds at best.


So I'm not sure if we'll even see a QB do well in this system and with this limited pass protection.

[RavenScallywag]

Our big needs are CB, DL, and QB.

OL, I think it's just going to take time...You've got Jason Brown, who is really starting to gel as our LG. Mike Flynn, it's time to hit some bench buddy...although we need Chester to setup up and be the C we need him to be first. Grubbs, we might want to let him have another year in rotation before starting him, but he's been progessing well. You've got Yanda on the right side, we should keep him there, he's lights out compared to Terry. LT, you've got Terry and Gaither...let them go at it...I think Gaither supplants him next year, if not Opening Day, at midway through the season. Right there, that's a young OL with lots of promise...you're going to get beat now and again, but I can't see any weak spots there, as far as bad players...

CB, I think Rolle and CMac are just hitting their undependable age. Originally, I saw Rolle as a possible retirement, but it appears like he will come back. That said, I want to see a CB who can push him in training camp. Rolle would be wonderful as a nickel back. So I think we look for CB in round 1, unless there is a monster QB sitting there, loving the Ravens.

DL, I think we need help at DE...BAD. Suggs is likely gone, unless he manages to lower his expectations. I still love Pryce, but our depth was definitley exposed there. We have no decent backup who can put the pressure on the OL...Scratch that, other than Pryce we have NO DE who can pressure the OL. We at least have a few things helping us, as we're a hybrid 4-3 3-4, so we could look at OLBs and either have them convert to DE or bring JJ back to DE. Also, maybe someone like Antwan Barnes could fill that role.

QB...When Boller is playing lights out, I love this guy. But to be honest, he can't play a consistent 2-3 game run to save his life. The reason we loved Boller again, was he didn't have the opportunities to go out and remind us that he can't play a full season at the same level. I really wish the kid the best, but I believe we've seen enough. I'd start him next year, because I don't want to throw a rookie or Troy Smith out there to get ruined, but I don't think we should make any bones about it, the kid is on his way out of here in another year. As for Troy Smith, it's going to be hard to tell if he's the real deal or not until this team really starts to come together. I say if you see a QB sitting in a nice spot, take him anyway...I'd rather have a Cleveland situation, where you've got two good QBs, than have several mediocre QBs.

We're pretty set at RB and LB and ST. I agree with the explosive factor at WR/TE, but I think Clayton, D Wil, and Heap will bring that next year when they're healthier...and DVD has earned a chance to come back to Baltimore and pickup on this play.

Billick can stay, so long as he gives up the reigns on offense and lets someone come in who will do it up right. I think Neuheisel would've been great here, but he was a puppethead, and that's why he's trying desperately to get out while he still can. Bring in an imaginative college coach, or a very good, seasoned position coach and let them design our new offense.