What do with this team. Draft a QB? Troy Smith? Fire Billick? hmmmm

[jonboy79]

Exiled is spot on... I like all fo those prosects, though I'm not so high on Jenkins, I'd rather a guy that is more physical and used to man up style at corner... coincidentally Mike Jenkins may be that guy. I think where we pick in the first will be too high to spend on any of these corners though. To me, our first should be used on a QB if still necessary, or a DE or traded back.

[ClericBlackDave]

I would say DE is our biggest need.


I am severely dissapointed with Suggs. He just doesn't use his hands well to disengage from the blocker, and has no moves. Its just sad watching him do the same bull rush and get owned the same way almost every play.


As for QB, I liked what I say from Troy Smith, but because we have shit for pass protection, we didn't get to see anything from him WITHIN THE POCKET, which is what teams feared with him. He's short so his ability to see downfield from insid the pocket is worrisome.


And so again, I hope we draft a real center or let Jason Brown be center and draft another guard.


I also agree that Troy Smith needs to see increased time this year.

[bmore finest]

Someone said next year is rebuilding, and i somewhat agreed. With the cap, and the money we will be eating next year. I can see that happening. Firing Brian is the easiest thing to do. But will we eat that contract too. I like suggs, so yes don't overpay but offer something to equal the down season he's having.

I really don't know, how to fix the ravens. Just hope maybe TROY works out and rebuild the aging D in the draft. Maybe a QB first, but can we really afford that with the cap next year. That's a lot of money for top 5 picks. Just a thought.

Roughly thinking, yes i think somethimes,LOL, Steve and J.O. retire. Eat the dead money for 08. Ray last season,or take a big paycut. Cmac and a draft pick starts next year with Rolle as the 3rd. The o line will hopefully gel next year and Kyle will start half and TROY will finish.

I don't know but 08 is really lokking like a bye year for us. But i'm on the ship anyway. And always will be. Unless we lose to the fins this week, i'm jumping overboard and meet the ship at the bottom.

[ExiledRaven]

Thanks for the props Jonboy. I've just not seen enough of the CBs there to get a real read. I've seen Jenkins and Cason, but not Mike Jenkins. I'll see if I can find some stuff on a video site to have a better clue.

[Mista T]

Lets see if I can find my way back to the questions:

1) We don't need to overpay Terrell Suggs.

We failed to tag Adalius Thomas or overpay him last season, and our Defense went from the penthouse to the outhouse. I don't mind overpaying Suggs a little, but not going overboard. Only because the team is getting so mediocre now, we have to keep some talent. Anyway, Suggs should be a better player next season if pryce comes back healthy and we do weel in the draft at DT.

2) What to do about coaching? I would say fire Brian Billick.

Billick will be back in 2008.

3) At QB, what to do? Draft a QB? Start Troy Smith? Let Boller have at it for 1 more year? Really, the o-line played shitty enough last night (night and day v. the effort against the Patriots) that I don't know if we'll even get to know who the real Kyle Boller is v. the real Troy Smith or anyone else. 1st thing I think is get a real o-line. That'd give someone a real chance

Hopefully get some O-Line improvement in the draft, but we don't have a lot of picks.

Boller to start. Draft a QB in mid to low rounds to compete with Smith for backup.

4) WR/TE.

I'd love to get a burner, but he would have to be a diamond in the rough. I don't expect to see any changes here. The current goup is adequate

5) CB. We need to draft a CB for depth. Our corners are old.

This may be our 1st round choice.

6) DT. We are thin at DT, and need to get healthy and draft more depth.

If not CB, this should be our 1st round choice. (I was really impressed with prolific's wrie-up of Howie Long's son a few days ago - that guy could be a monster for us).

[UKRavenStockers]

Thanks for the props Jonboy. I've just not seen enough of the CBs there to get a real read. I've seen Jenkins and Cason, but not Mike Jenkins. I'll see if I can find some stuff on a video site to have a better clue.

Cason I would love to get, absolutely love it. And a positive from our awful season is that we'll be at the top of round 2. If Cason runs a over a 4.4 or a 4.5 40 as I suspect he might then he'd be there for us in round 2 and that'd be an excellent pick up for my money. That said, it's a long way off and who actually knows what Cason will run etc.


T, I'm interested to know why you want to spend a first round pick on a defensive tackle? Ngata and Gregg are a top notch pairing and the offence is still clearly the issue, I'd not mind spending a 3rd (compensatory from Adalius?) or 4th rounder on a DT for depth but I don't think we can afford to spend a first on a defensive tackle.


On the O-line I think we've pretty much got our lot there. I agree that Ogden's gone and I think the only way we're getting line help in is a veteran, don't think we'll be drafting anyone. This line is young enough already, assuming Ogden retires and Flynn is well on the way out, Jason Brown is the most experienced player on this line and we'll need a veteran presence to lead this line for the next three or four years in my opinion which I think we've missed with Ogden either not being in there physically or not being there in terms of full effort.


At QB I don't think we can not draft a guy. I'm highly enamoured with Andre Woodson, I could give a hoot about his funky throwing motion, he's beaten the best with inferior talent and he looks after the ball. He's got everything you look for in a QB IMO, would far rather he than Ryan. Woodson, Brohm and Flacco are my top three from the draft, don't see there being a vet worth anything in free agency.


I've said it before about Suggs, I don't see how we can not keep him. At the very least we need to tag him. He may still not have developed that inside move, but letting him leave means we've lost 20 sacks in two off seasons, that's not something we can overcome. We've still got plenty of talent on this team and completely doing away with our pass rush handicaps us big time with a lack of veteran presence at corner.


Finally, receivers. At tight end either go for a vet, there will be someone to act as a stop gap or I'd like to look at Kellen Davis from Michigan State late on in the draft. Davis isn't much of a blocker (OK we might need to get a blocking TE in as none of Heap, Wilcox or Sypniewski really cuts mustard in that department) but he is an athletic mis-match on the field and would be a great red zone target. At WR, the common denominator I see with our receivers is that they're all small. Clayton and Mason are short in stature and Williams and Darling are both a little on the slight side. We don't have a big receiver who we can go to in tight spots, who will out muscle a guy for a quick slant or whatever, when Heap is out we don't have that there. Instead we're left looking for Mason or Clayton to punch above their weight and out muscle bigger guys on tough routes. I think we'd be well served looking to get someone in.


Long ramblings, I suspect it'll be the first of many, here's to a long season/off-season of discussion, debate and disagreement.

[purplepoe]

L Boller to start. Draft a QB in mid to low rounds to compete with Smith for backup.

Yes, let's continue to ignore the fact that we are in dire need of a top notch QB.

Draft a QB to "compete" for the backup spot?

BTW, we've invested HEAVILY in the OL over the past few years.

Why not give them at least half the chances you've given Boller over the years?

You've got rookies in Yanda and Grubbs that were drafted in the 3rd and 1st round respectively. You've got a 2nd year guy in Chester that needs work at center but was drafted in the 2nd round to be the future at center. You've got a 3rd year player in Brown that has shown to be very competent. And you've got another 2nd round guy in Terry who's shown he can play fairly well at left tackle. Not to mention a guy with a high ceiling in Gaither.

But we should draft OL and not QB?

Puleeze.

PP

[Sephy]

The OL is very much set (aside from center), it is just a matter of when the pieces fall into place. Brown and Grubbs are set, Yanda is likely set at RT, Terry will play LT until Gaither can take over or if Terry impresses. Chester at center is the only real question mark.

Yes, we need a cornerback. But honestly, we can draft a corner this year or next year. We still have McAlister and Rolle. We can sign better stopgap solutions. We have a chance to draft one of the top 2 QBs in the draft..you can't pass that up when you're starting Kyle Boller. Good CBs can be had in free agency and a little later in the draft, especially when you're drafting high 2nd round.

[copenhaggard]

Okay, here's the big question...

I assume everyone here knows that in order to be an elite team, you need a franchise QB, especially in today's game.

That being said, why are some people here content on keeping Boller as the starter, Smith as the backup, and drafting a QB in the late rounds?

Is it because:
-you believe Boller is an elite / franchise QB
-there are no good QBs in the draft worth drafting at our draft position
-you don't think you need an elite QB to win, and Boller is doing a good enough job to beat the best...


This is going to be great, it's lose-lose if you're a harcore Boller supporter, unless you are completely delousional...

[jonboy79]

MOst of the non-QB drafters are the ELITE of the Boller fanclub. I was on the hugger side of the wars for YEARS and I am one of the very loudest in pimping Ryan... I really don't understand in ANY manner how ANYONE can look at any position as beign a hihger need then QB. I really don't get it. I've had people attempt to explain it and I still don't get it.

[ClericBlackDave]

MOst of the non-QB drafters are the ELITE of the Boller fanclub. I was on the hugger side of the wars for YEARS and I am one of the very loudest in pimping Ryan... I really don't understand in ANY manner how ANYONE can look at any position as beign a hihger need then QB. I really don't get it. I've had people attempt to explain it and I still don't get it.

Just to clarify again, I am now officially not against drafting a QB.


What I do think is that we need to learn how to control the point of attack. Flynn is average AT BEST. Chester is a waste of a pick, depth at best.


For drafting needs, if Troy Smith shows anything and we've got Boller for "experience", we have glaring needs at CB, DE, C, and possibly even TE (depth there was exposed)


I hope Troy gets some time this year and that next year we can use a Smith/Boller combo and use draft picks and FA to shore up our larger holes.


I do agree that Boller isn't going to work out here as a starter, but I believe thats true for a VARIETY of reasons, not just something in his head.

[StingerNLG]

MOst of the non-QB drafters are the ELITE of the Boller fanclub. I was on the hugger side of the wars for YEARS and I am one of the very loudest in pimping Ryan... I really don't understand in ANY manner how ANYONE can look at any position as beign a hihger need then QB. I really don't get it. I've had people attempt to explain it and I still don't get it.

That's bullshit Jon. And Crows apparently has just come over here to start shit and egg people on, which is about to land him on my ignore list.

Not drafting a QB in the first round has nothing to do with anything other than seeing equal to more glaring needs on the team. That's the bottom line.

I can't understand after watching our backup CB's play Sunday night and knowing that McAlister and Rolle are getting older and may never be effective like they were, or play a whole season every again, people think that this isn't a pressing need above QB, or some other team is just going to let their playmaker CB's leave in free agency to go to another team. Not going to happen.

I also can't understand how people don't understand the need for a playmaker Wide Receiver. Let's draft a QB and give him the same receivers who can't get seperation or go downfield. Sure, that's the way to build a QB's confidence and abilities on the field. It's worked for us for the last 9 years, hasn't it?


I'm starting to tire of the attempts to "stereotype" those who don't think we just need to draft a QB and damn everything else.

[copenhaggard]

That's bullshit Jon. And Crows apparently has just come over here to start shit and egg people on, which is about to land him on my ignore list.



I can't understand after watching our backup CB's play Sunday night and knowing that McAlister and Rolle are getting older and may never be effective like they were, or play a whole season every again, people think that this isn't a pressing need above QB, or some other team is just going to let their playmaker CB's leave in free agency to go to another team. Not going to happen.

I also can't understand how people don't understand the need for a playmaker Wide Receiver. Let's draft a QB and give him the same receivers who can't get seperation or go downfield. Sure, that's the way to build a QB's confidence and abilities on the field. It's worked for us for the last 9 years, hasn't it?

Stinger you missed the point.

I just found it funny that after all of McNair's terrible performances this year and last, he got absolutely SHIT on, by a group of posters here.

But when Boller plays terrible, it doesn't happen.

I hate to see any of our players get shit on, but the certain bias here towards Boller is frankly disgusting.

Anyway, it's chicken and egg w/ a big play receiver. You need a great QB, not matter what. It's becoming more painfully obvious watching the NFL the past few seasons. I'd believe in getting a #1 receiver, if we had a QB that would take advantage of him, but I don't see Boller doing it.

Yes, there are needs with DE, CB, etc, but the QB is the most important. I am a defensive guy, but a franchise QB is needed. Look at a team like the Colts. They've had porous defense for most of Manning's tenure, but have been an 11, 12 win team for the past 6 years I believe.

Good defenses can be beaten, as we've seen. Good QBs can have shit games, as we've also seen. But in today's NFL, there is more of a chance of beating a good defense unfortunately.

[purple bird]

"Stinger you missed the point.

I just found it funny that after all of McNair's terrible performances this year and last, he got absolutely SHIT on, by a group of posters here.

But when Boller plays terrible, it doesn't happen.

I hate to see any of our players get shit on, but the certain bias here towards Boller is frankly disgusting."


-

CopenHaggard, I couldn't have said it better myself. McNair was a very quiet, humble guy. I couldn't believe the way some fans reacted to him while, when Boller did the same thing, give a free pass after 5 years of showing nothing.

Actually the players outwardly expressed their desire for McNair not to step down, the fans seem to be the only ones pressing for Boller.

It seems like the fans can't read between the lines after five years - THE PLAYERS DON'T LIKE BOLLER.

Remember Denver in 2005? Derrick Mason, the player who came to Boller's aid when he was being booed after being injured, even lit up Boller after the game. And he was the nicest about it compared to what some of the others had to say.

Even after some tough games this year (behind the same poor blocking which everyone is so quick to point out when Boller screws up), the players expressed their desire for McNair to be their qb.

Boller was drafted higher than he should've been...and he knows it. Heck everyone knows it...except Brian Billick.

You've seen the pictures of him around town partying it up (have you seen some of the Preakness pics with him?). He is a well-educated pretty boy who is just happy to have the money he has so he can live the lifestyle he leads and if he loses, well let's just say he doesn't take it to heart as much as the ultra-competitive types like Ray, JO or Ed Reed does. He doesn't care because he cares more about the fact that he can continue partying with models than winning football games.


Ray, Ed, Terrell all care about money, but losing makes them sick to their stomach. Ray makes a ton of money; he is not satisfied though because of losing.

I want guys turning over in their sleep when they lose, I want them to want to win that much.

[jonboy79]

That's bullshit Jon. And Crows apparently has just come over here to start shit and egg people on, which is about to land him on my ignore list.

Not drafting a QB in the first round has nothing to do with anything other than seeing equal to more glaring needs on the team. That's the bottom line.

I can't understand after watching our backup CB's play Sunday night and knowing that McAlister and Rolle are getting older and may never be effective like they were, or play a whole season every again, people think that this isn't a pressing need above QB, or some other team is just going to let their playmaker CB's leave in free agency to go to another team. Not going to happen.

I also can't understand how people don't understand the need for a playmaker Wide Receiver. Let's draft a QB and give him the same receivers who can't get seperation or go downfield. Sure, that's the way to build a QB's confidence and abilities on the field. It's worked for us for the last 9 years, hasn't it?


I'm starting to tire of the attempts to "stereotype" those who don't think we just need to draft a QB and damn everything else.

First, CBD. I wish you would give Chester more then a single start? Maybe 2 at C to prove that the KNOWN PROJECT of a draftpick was a waste. Maybe that would make sense seeing in how on all levels he has played in MAYBE 30 games as an OLINEMAN.

Next, Stinger, you are BY FAR the most reasonable and logical on that side of the fence. You put actual thought into what you say and hwo you watch the game. I'm not sayign that we should take Woodson over Chris Long to make SURE we get a 1st round QB, but all things being equal(player talent) I'd rather take a QB. What I mean by that is that I'd personally take either Brohm or Ryan over Calais Campbell or any of the corners. This is primarily due to my perceived need at the QB position, but als oplays into the fact thtat an ELITE CB will be available at the top of 2, and Langford from Hampton should be available late 2 or early 3. MY personal opinion is that the high -end QB's are more spread from the middle guys then defenders are. This is usually the case. Also I think our D is still more hten adequate, at this point, with injuries. so...
I agree we need a playmaking WR and 3rd down back too. The thing is, these guy sare ready to play day 1. Whats the point of gettign Mario Manningham or steve Slaton when we can't get the ball out of the QB's hands...
We have one of the WORST set of QB's in the league. We have one of the BEST sets of CB's and DE's in the league. They may have been hurt this year, but they are there. A QB is not. Agree or disagre, it's fun to discuss at the least.

[festivus]

Actually the players outwardly expressed their desire for McNair not to step down, the fans seem to be the only ones pressing for Boller.

It seems like the fans can't read between the lines after five years - THE PLAYERS DON'T LIKE BOLLER.

Not so fast PB. The players were very supportive of McNair when he was under center, as you say, but they were also very supportive of Boller when it was his turn.

As far as the Monday night disaster goes, of course they said he'd underperformed, saying anything else would have been absurd. But overall they have been consistently supportive of *each* starting QB when it was his turn to throw the ball.

Concerning a 'bias' on this forum, I really don't see it. All reasonable viewpoints have their mouthpieces, as far as I can tell.

[4G63]

If Boller played 14 games a season like the one against the Pats, I'd have no problem with him as our QB. But sadly, he doesn't! He plays somewhere in between the Pats and Colts game which is mediocre.

That being said, we'll never compete or be considered an elite team with Boller under center....and that includes getting rid of Billick.....

[BertJonesMyHero]

Fire Billick and the rest will solve itself.

[RavenTD]

I would settle for a better than average but consistant performance from Boller to keep him as a starter.

Consistant play as in at home and away,as in dry,cold,or wet conditions.
As in him seeing the whole field,hitting receivers in stride,feeling the pressure and acting accordingly.As in putting touch on the ball when needed.

If he could put that together game in and game out.Then I would be waving his flag of honor.But you never know which Boller is going to turn up, Dr Jekyll or Mr Hyde.

Well at least we don't have to watch the likes of Brock Berlin start in purple.
Franchise QB's are a dying breed.

[4G63]

Fire Billick and the rest will solve itself.

There is probably a lot of truth in this simple statement.....