It is NOT the system!

**Rochardrik** · 12-27-2007, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by festivus

We got all the way to the playoffs with *no* passing game. We had crap for offensive personnel and made it to the playoffs!

Refreshing your recollection. . . The year was 2003. Under center was Kyle Boller, until about half way through the season. Then he was replaced by Anthony freakin' Wright, whose top two wideouts were Travis Taylor and Marcus Robinson, from the 'Where are they now' column. Making it to the playoffs that year was overachieving, Raven Nurse. It was a year to be proud of.

That year AW led us to a 17? point comeback against the Seahawks.... which I listened to outside the stadium in P. lot B. ( My party wanted to leave, and I made it out the door before they did, and they stayed after the first score on the comeback trail.... and the bums at the gate wouldn't let me "return"!)

**UKRavenStockers** · 12-27-2007, 10:35 AM

Take the heat off the system all you want, last year showed it's not that bad a system. What is a massive problem though is that our offensive coaches (Billick remaining the only constant just about) are absolutely woeful at making in game and in season adjustments. We are one of if not the worst team in the league at responding to other teams' adjustments in my opinion. Yes we've had injuries this year and that'll hurt anyone, but where have the adjustments been to diminish the impact of those injuries? Answer, there haven't been any, we've just beligerently hammered away with the same old tactics, not responding and adjusting to adversity. It's a avery poor coaching job in my opinion with the lack of adjustments.

**purplepoe** · 12-27-2007, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers

Take the heat off the system all you want, last year showed it's not that bad a system. What is a massive problem though is that our offensive coaches (Billick remaining the only constant just about) are absolutely woeful at making in game and in season adjustments. We are one of if not the worst team in the league at responding to other teams' adjustments in my opinion. Yes we've had injuries this year and that'll hurt anyone, but where have the adjustments been to diminish the impact of those injuries? Answer, there haven't been any, we've just beligerently hammered away with the same old tactics, not responding and adjusting to adversity. It's a avery poor coaching job in my opinion with the lack of adjustments.

I'd say the coach most guilty of not adjusting is Rex Ryan.

He's still coaching like we've got a healthy Rolle/McAlister combo back there.

PP

**UKRavenStockers** · 12-27-2007, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by purplepoe

I'd say the coach most guilty of not adjusting is Rex Ryan.

He's still coaching like we've got a healthy Rolle/McAlister combo back there.

PP

That's entirely true, should've lumped him in with Billick there.

**4G63** · 12-27-2007, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Tspot-D-Ravenator

You my friend, are WRONG

Negative, you are WRONG!!!! How often has Billick made a change to the team (sub Boller for McNair) that was obvious to EVERYONE but himself?

Look, maybe (probably) there is more going on than what we see.....Maybe, just maybe, McNair was Bisciotti's/Ozzie's guy? That would explain why they let him play longer than was advised and why Billick has such confidence that he'll be returning.......we can speculate all we want but the simple fact is Bisciotti is the one holding all the cards and he may have given Billick a pass for the year already!

My statement rings true with most fans I meet; that Billick doesn't have a "feel" for the game like other coaches do! Miami at the end and Buffalo at the end stick out in my mind! It seems like he "out-thinks" himself into a hole. Remember this statement from Football 101: Keep doing what works until they stop you!!! If you're averaging 4yds per carry then continue to run the ball until they stop you......Billick cannot grasp that concept IMO......

**festivus** · 12-27-2007, 02:06 PM

Ok, what was our strength in 03? And what did we use?

**festivus** · 12-27-2007, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by 4G63

Negative, you are WRONG!!!! How often has Billick made a change to the team (sub Boller for McNair) that was obvious to EVERYONE but himself?

Look, maybe (probably) there is more going on than what we see.....Maybe, just maybe, McNair was Bisciotti's/Ozzie's guy? That would explain why they let him play longer than was advised and why Billick has such confidence that he'll be returning.......we can speculate all we want but the simple fact is Bisciotti is the one holding all the cards and he may have given Billick a pass for the year already!

My statement rings true with most fans I meet; that Billick doesn't have a "feel" for the game like other coaches do! Miami at the end and Buffalo at the end stick out in my mind! It seems like he "out-thinks" himself into a hole. Remember this statement from Football 101: Keep doing what works until they stop you!!! If you're averaging 4yds per carry then continue to run the ball until they stop you......Billick cannot grasp that concept IMO......

McNair is somebody else's "guy"?

Billick wants to win. Swapping quarterbacks when necessary is part of that goal. Unfortunately this year, as in most years since Grbac left, there is not a good quarterback to *put* there. It's Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is the best. Billick wants to win, you may disagree about his method, but all this bullshit about who is whose 'guy', or 'boy', or 'son', depending on whose post you read, is just that. Bullshit. And I think it all comes from an illusion many fans have, that someone or other from our QB unit is actually capable of being a good starter at this point in his career. Because none of them is that guy, at least this season.

Anyway on to the next point. Fans always want to go for it on 4th down, and (apparently) fans think 3d and 1 (or 2d and 1) is a running down, when that is *not* the case, across the NFL plenty of teams throw regularly on 3d and 1. They just do. When those passes are completed, people forget. I guess when the passes fall incomplete, fans remember, and the coach never gets to live it down. Part of being a coach I suppose, though he's not the one under center, it's just what happens.

Concerning a "feel" for the game, I am marginally better than my son at Madden '03. We play all the time, and I feel like I have a "feel" for the game.

But real NFL games are NOT Madden '03, and your personal 'feel for the game', and that of the other fans you talk to, is worth about as much as mine, or my son's, and he's only eight. All these board 'experts', the Monday morning quarterbacks who could have called a better game, just make me

. Get over yourselves, the coach is not some village idiot, he's making do with the best he can with the crappy talent we have on the field this year.

Billick did, by the way, get around to 'subbing Boller for McNair,' when it turned out McNair was hurt. How'd that turn out? Has it helped? Maybe if only he'd made the switch sooner, we could have lost *more* games with Boller, instead of losing them with McNair!

*sigh*

Not that Billick is blameless, of course he bears some responsibility for this disaster of a season. But with our injuries we were never going to be any good, and even perfectly healthy we've gotten *nothing* from the quarterback position this year.

I think many fans overestimate the amount of talent we've had on the field. Perhaps if they understand that injuries *matter*, they will be less prone to blame the head coach. Or not.

*sigh* Again.

**highwater** · 12-27-2007, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by festivus

*sigh* Again.

Good grief festivus, you sound like Charlie Brown at Christmas with all those sighs!

I agree with most of your points, however -- the second-guessing of Billick's calls has gotten out of hand (and I say that as someone who has second-guessed him too). He got ripped when he passed when we thought he should have run (Bills) and then got ripped when he ran in a similiar situation (Dolphins). If it works, he's a genius, if it doesn't, he's an idiot who "doesn't have a feel for the game."

But that's to be expected when you have a losing record. Just take a deep breath and sigh one more time and move on.

**festivus** · 12-27-2007, 04:41 PM

Raven Nurse, I am a touch embarrassed I wasted so much time trying to address you. Looking back at your posts I see you contribute nothing but snarky sarcasm and general hater-fan speak, adding nothing to an argument besides instigating with inaccurate and unsupported generalizations.

Oh well. At least I entertained Highwater.

**highwater** · 12-27-2007, 05:21 PM

Thank god for Marvin and our D!!!

LOL at your logic -- you think Billick caught lightening in a bottle in Minnesota but you're thanking Marvin Lewis for the Super Bowl win? You don't think he may have caught lightening in a bottle with the players he had on defense? Have you seen what his defense has been like in Cincy? Here's a news flash for you -- his defense with the Bengals has sucked every year!

And please don't tell us what the players think about Billick, because you don't know. I am very tired of windbags who pretend to know what the players think.

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-27-2007, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Get a new comeback. It's one thing to say someone bores you and then have facts. It's quite another to say it and then leave it dangling like the 3 incher in your pants.

and you didn't have to attack me personally Houston

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-27-2007, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by festivus

Not that Billick is blameless, of course he bears some responsibility for this disaster of a season. But with our injuries we were never going to be any good, and even perfectly healthy we've gotten *nothing* from the quarterback position this year.

I think many fans overestimate the amount of talent we've had on the field. Perhaps if they understand that injuries *matter*, they will be less prone to blame the head coach. Or not.

*sigh* Again.

Three rookies on the O-line at one time on many occasions and two rookies most of the year on the right side, could be the problem with our QB situation

**highwater** · 12-27-2007, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Raven Nurse

I love that that the archive goes way back.....Highwater the FLIP FLOPPER!!!

highwater highwater is online now
Pro Bowl 24x7 Raven

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,217
Re: One big weakness to our offense...
Quote:
Originally Posted by postalworker View Post
We have the weapons to go deep, we just can't execute.
I think that sums it up pretty well. I don't know if it's because McNair can't throw a good long ball, or if the coaches don't want to call those plays, or perhaps a combination of the above -- maybe the coaches don't have confidence in McNair to throw bombs.

Whatever the reason, I don't think the receivers are the problem.

I have absolutely no idea what you think you accomplished with this, or why you think the above post makes me a flip flopper, but I don't really care because you appear to be totally clueless.

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-27-2007, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by highwater

LOL at your logic -- you think Billick caught lightening in a bottle in Minnesota but you're thanking Marvin Lewis for the Super Bowl win? You don't think he may have caught lightening in a bottle with the players he had on defense? Have you seen what his defense has been like in Cincy? Here's a news flash for you -- his defense with the Bengals has sucked every year!

And please don't tell us what the players think about Billick, because you don't know. I am very tired of windbags who pretend to know what the players think.

Marvin's defense sucked before Billick got her..Brian was going to let him go for Gunther from K.C. Marvin's defense lost many of games for our 6-10 Ravens the year before Billick got here if I remember correctly

**festivus** · 12-27-2007, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Raven Nurse

OK azzhole, this ones for you. In eight years we have had zero offense. There has been ample time to get "his type" offensive players in place. The players do not support him. This is a major problem with this team because his players do not support his "system" or lack there of. Now dumb ass supports like you will tell me they do support him...and I will again tell you they dont and you can ask any insider or simply read between the lines in press conferences or listen to radio shows or listen to past player AKA Shannon Sharpe Deion etc...
We have always been in the lower half of total offense and always relied on our D as his crutch. You do realize that our SB year we went 6 games without scoring an offensive TD. Thank god for Marvin and our D!!! His play calling has always been abysmal. 3 or 4th and 1 at the goal line and we are supposedly an running team and we throw. WTF How many of those have we seen. Again, 8 years is alot of DP's and free agents to get "his type" of players in here to fit his system!! Stop making excuses!!! If it were not for our D coord's we would be where the Bengals were 5 years ago!!!! Oh, more of my negative talk, if BB stays our coach, we will be worse next year than this year. As someone posted earlier...BB caught lightening in a bottle with Minnesota and has never been able to duplicate the throw it up and let Randy catch it type of offense. Give me randy moss and I will be the offensive guru too. Again how many facts do you need that says we need a new signal caller and head coach that has the respect of his players!!! I guess you missed the Miami game where the camera showed coaches and players yelling at the coach to go for it!!! No confidence in his players to get 1/2 a yard....therefore no confidence in the coach by the players!!! Enough substance for you. Now... I will be there in my seat on Sunday screaming for my team and most likely getting bailed out of jail for knocking some inbred Steeler fan in the head. Never question my knowledge or input....You just cant hang.......

So. I am an azzhole and a dumbass, and this is how you support your "argument." For those normally reluctant to read walls of text, I encourage you nevertheless to take the time to read this entire jewel.

You're a joke, RN. It's ok, I'm glad the boards still have a clown or two to kick around.

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-27-2007, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Raven Nurse

OK azzhole, this ones for you. In eight years we have had zero offense. There has been ample time to get "his type" offensive players in place. The players do not support him. This is a major problem with this team because his players do not support his "system" or lack there of. Now dumb ass supports like you will tell me they do support him...and I will again tell you they dont and you can ask any insider or simply read between the lines in press conferences or listen to radio shows or listen to past player AKA Shannon Sharpe Deion etc...

It's funny how Quadry Ishmial said last night ON THE RADIO, that his playbook with the Colts was the exact same playbook he had with the Ravens

He said that the player weren't executing them

**highwater** · 12-27-2007, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by festivus

:For those normally reluctant to read walls of text, I encourage you nevertheless to take the time to read this entire jewel.

I actually did read it, and I feel dumber for having read it.

I don't mind engaging in a spirited debate with someone who can intelligently present a point of view that is different than mine, but this guy appears to have the IQ of a root vegetable. He doesn't even make sense. Well, it takes all kinds, etc.

**crazyraven** · 12-28-2007, 08:49 AM

I encourage you nevertheless to take the time to read this entire jewel.

You're right, It was a fun read. I especially like the post where he called HW a flip-flopper with out any reason or cause.

**Fanman** · 12-28-2007, 09:29 AM

when the system has been broken for NINE years...it IS the system.

Man....this is a joke.

FM

**Rochardrik** · 12-28-2007, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Raven Nurse

2 things, 1st, the refs blew that game by not stopping the clock and by blowing a clear fisrt down by Seahawks. 2nd, please do not isolate 1 or 2 games in 8 years to prove we have an offense. 8 years very littler offense. We do not use our strengths and our weaknesses are greatly exposed!!

I'm sorry, I guess I gave the impression that I thought we had an offense. I do not! I was just pointing out, or I intended to, that once or twice, in the last 8 years we made a comeback.... Which glaringly shows how inept, non-existant, horrible our offense has been!!!!