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  1. #25
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    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....



    Well i don't see us drafting a QB first. Ryan will be gone to ATL. Top 8 pick money, I'll say..... A WR. Or CB. But a Wr would help cam. And Troy or Kyle.

    What if Troy do suceed, draft a late Qb this year, get a wr,cb, de/cb, qb,c/te, c/te, and a cb/lb. Just my thought.

    As for the O line, i like to see a great line coach come in and work with the young guys. Let them gel. A center in day 2 and a vet in free agEncy. I'm all for that.

    I just love this off season. A lot of things to focus on. WOw!! but can anyone see the wisdom of OZ, shocking everyone and get a WR. If we keep the 8th pick, where would you spend that money. good question OZZIE.

    D-Will, Mark, MASon, and a top 8 wr.




  2. #26
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    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Come on people, the investment has been made on the OL... we can only get better there by lettign them play. Drafting a first round tackle not named LOng won't help us now. Terry is more then "alright" at LT, in fact he is significantly better there currently then Ogden. Yanda is simply NOT "Not an NFLTackle" He got blown up by Jason Tayor, one of the best DE's in the history of football, and last years DPOY... Did you watch the season before that game?
    I love your list of late day QB's, care to share the list of the other 250 2nd day guys drafted during that time span? Round 6 QB's, which for some statistical anomoly come out very good. Abotu 1 in 5 will be successful, better then both the 4th and 5th rounds... and MUCH better then 7th and UDFA's... Romo didn't hit hte field for almost 4 years? We don't have that kind of time, we need to get better at the QB position, ASAP, and we need to hit on the guy. That to me is the new First day, or bust... IF we don't get one of the top handful of QB's i the draft we failed, MISERABLY.
    I dont doubt that we have made an investment in the O line already. My point is that investment has not lived up to their potential, IMO.

    I say you keep making that investment until it shows promise. If anything, a high draft pick of an O linemen gives up depth in a position that was plagued with injuries last year without a huge cap hit a top tier QB would garner.

    Im not saying we dont need help in other areas you mention. I agree with you there. What Im saying if we're starting fresh with a new system, QB search, etc, then it is crucial we have an effective line that gives good holes for McGahee AND provides our future QB with more time, allowing more options other then the dink-and-dunk crap we've seen for the past 4 years.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #27

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by camdenyard View Post
    Ozzie, you better have your draft shoes on, you're gonna need 'em!
    We have needs aplenty but limited resources. I would like to see some whacking of expensive deadwood (cut/retire Ogden, Flynn, McNair, Rolle, even Mason) to clear some cap space and trading down to get more players in the 2nd and/or 3rd rounds. DE and CB should be our top priorities, via FA or a first day pick. I'm hoping that the combination of Yanda, Gaither & Terry would obviate the need for a first day OT selection. As to QB, I would like to see the Ravens select Woodson in the 2nd round or Flacco in the 3rd, if either were to fall that far.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  4. #28
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    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    would said "whacking of deadwood" help our cap space now? Those are big contracts, but my guess is they'd have some big cap hits this year (and possibly next year, depending on when we make the cuts).

    I agree, I'd like to see us keep getting younger...Flynn should've been gone years ago, now it's just a matter of finding when it's most profitable. JO, while it'd be morally uplifting to see him keep going at it, he's just not reliable anymore, and I think he should take the high road and go out with this being his last Pro Bowl. McNair is moreso obvious, though I think I'd like his humbled attitude and might look to see if his body is healed up. Because his attitude might bring out the best in him.

    Mason and Rolle I'm not so quick to say we cut. Until we have someone who can step up into Mason's role, if we dump him, our passing game becomes VERY vulnerable. Clayton and D-Wil are supposed to be big play threats, but they both had off years due to injuries and recoveries. DVD had a nice year, but I don't see him stepping up to be the dependant part of the passing game. Rolle, I'd like to see him reduce his salary and stay on...The guy showed this year he is a fighter and has the drive to stay in the NFL. That said, he has a big salary and is less valuable than CMac.

    Also, since this is his last year on his contract, what do we do with Ray Lewis? Most are in agreement he's reaching the twilight of his career, though many can argue he still plays at a high level. Do we give him his last payday, or let him go sign somewhere else and keep focusing on the future? That also should be considered in our draft plans...if we trade down, maybe pick up a high 2nd round pick and look for Ray's successor.
    .
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    FOR REED, BIRK, BOLDIN, RAY, ART, TEVIN, OJ, and BALTIMORE...
    SUPER BOWL 47 CHAMPION RAVENS!!!!!!

    "We don't make it easy, but that's the way the city of Baltimore is, and that's the way we are. We did this for them back home." - Joe Flacco, Super Bowl 47 MVP


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




  5. #29

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fanatic View Post
    Regarding Yanda, his reach is what is in question here.
    Did he perform adequate in alot of games?
    Certainly but when you get to the next level (post season) he's basically playing nothing but the upper tier defensive ends.
    Quite frankly, you'll have to play several to even get to the post season.
    So by your logic, having somebody who is OK against a good deal of the league is OK, but having a key position on the O-line struggle protecting your QB against upper tier DEs is acceptable.

    And now you want to put a first round pick behind that?.
    He was a rookie, that played well and had ONE poor game. That's what I think about Yanda, I think he will get better. That is all above and beyond the fact that the scheme will undoubtedly be better, and playing more alongside similar people will make them better, I see each and every player getting better on an individual basis. The Unit as a whole, has no choice but to get better.
    And on top of that, I think throwing a "Cap Busting" first round pick into the mix doesn't help at all. If you actually want to improve the line today, then a Vet is the way to go. Trade for a Vet Center, if you truly want to imporve the line. I would not have an issue with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fanatic View Post
    The QB position is by far probably the toughest to pick and hit.

    I gave a few examples of guys picked in later rounds that have done well.
    Nowhere did I say they are sure things in the latter stages of the draft as most are not.

    You seem to think that we have to take a projected top tier QB in the early first round or this draft will be a failure.

    Maybe you should go back and review how successful those picks have been.
    You can start with one that's currently on our roster.

    The fact remains that the majority of QBs picked in the draft don't pan out the way they are projected for a variety of reasons, but you want to blow the cap on a high first round QB pick simply because he's projected as being a first rounder that will do well.
    Hell, alot of drafts none of the top QBs picked pan out at all.

    Regardless of where they take one if they do at all, he won't see the field in any meaningful playing time until the earliest being 2009.

    Exactly how long is your time line to reach success with your comment "We don't have that kind of time"?

    The game is won in the trenches, and those soldiers need to be able to take on all battles in order for just about any QB to have success.

    Yup, let's take a day one cap busting QB, put him back there and watch him get his brains busted out because our RT can't handle the elite pass rushers but is Ok with everybody else.

    Been there, done that already for too many years.

    I agree, and each round you wait it gets harder and harder... I'd like to be good in '09 or '10, not '15. If we are only going to draft late day guys, we won't be good until then. I without a doubt think the whole draft is a failure if we end up with a QB worse then John David Booty.
    Boller is a big reason I think we need to do that again. Upper first rounders hit mroe then 60% of the time, we are due.
    NO I want to take a QB early because we have a MAJOR dearth of talent at the most important position the game has. We have a top 10 pick which we hopefully won't have again, and Frankly, I think the top 2 guys Are as good of prospects as have been around in a few years. I know I liked Cutler more, but not Leinart or Young. Russell a bit more, Quinn less, Better then Smith and Rodgers...
    Beyond that, I think Henne, Flacco, Booty, and Woodson, all have a chance. At least a better chance then Troy Smith. I don't want any QB drafted on the field until '09.

    I agree the game is won in the trenches, that's why I've been so happy with the past few drafts. Again, if we can swing a trade for a solid Vet C, I'm in.

    Your cap comments are pointless, the Cap number for anyone selected at the #8 pick will be about $2m this year, independant of position.




  6. #30

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    as far as DEs go...Jared Allen of KC is a free agent. How many DEs come in from the draft and make a big impact....few?

    But if a DE is the best player on the board at 8 they will prolly go down that road.

    FM




  7. #31
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    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Here's my take on taking a QB early...

    So we took Boller in 2003. So 2004 and 2005 were "write-off years", in that we had to say "Ok, he hasn't been stellar, but he was only a rookie/second year player". 2006, we finally began to think about what to do...but, we grabbed Steve McNair through trade, problem solved. 2007, there was no reason to look at QB high up, because Steve was coming off a good year and Kyle even looked okay in backup roles.

    This year, we're looking at 1) Steve McNair falling apart in 07, could return in 08, but even if he does, no one thinks he can really reclaim his former glory, 2) Kyle Boller getting his second shot....and failing again. You can say it was the OL, or the receivers, or injuries, but Kyle represents a hugh question mark again at best, in terms of being able to really lead this team, and 3) Troy Smith, a rookie who showed you he won't get obliterated under pressure. But that's about it, he showed us he has potential, but there's no way to tell what that potential is.

    So, going into this draft, not only do we not know who starts for this team...we don't even know if the backups are capable of being starters if needed. Steve and Kyle both have one year left on their deals, so if we wanted to get a potential franchise QB, this would be the year. The kid can sit for a year under the tutelage of McNair. For those Troy Smith fans out there, there's nothing that says we don't give him a shot. Think Drew Brees/Philip Rivers. Plus, with us having a new HC and thinking this whole concept of "new blood, new message", I think getting another high round QB might be the ticket.

    That said, I still stick by BPA. I would be fine waiting until 3rd or 4th round to grab a QB, given the timing, pick, and personality is right.
    .
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    FOR REED, BIRK, BOLDIN, RAY, ART, TEVIN, OJ, and BALTIMORE...
    SUPER BOWL 47 CHAMPION RAVENS!!!!!!

    "We don't make it easy, but that's the way the city of Baltimore is, and that's the way we are. We did this for them back home." - Joe Flacco, Super Bowl 47 MVP


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




  8. #32

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I agree, and each round you wait it gets harder and harder... I'd like to be good in '09 or '10, not '15. If we are only going to draft late day guys, we won't be good until then. I without a doubt think the whole draft is a failure if we end up with a QB worse then John David Booty.
    You realize almost noone can agree with you on this. Even those in the media, INCLUDING guys like Mel Kiper don't have us touching a QB in early going. Heck, Kiper has us taking a DT, which made me scratch my head.

    A QB in the first round isn't happening. You may as well strike the champaigne bottle to that boat and let it sail.

    Boller is a big reason I think we need to do that again. Upper first rounders hit mroe then 60% of the time, we are due.
    More than 60%? I want to see that statistic play out. If you go by the 2003 draft alone, out of first 4 QB's taken (Palmer, Leftwich, Boller, Grossman), which one has really worked out for their respective clubs? Carson Palmer, and he's only gotten his team to the playoffs once. Other than that he's no better than an 8-8 QB


    NO I want to take a QB early because we have a MAJOR dearth of talent at the most important position the game has.
    I'll wait and let our new head coach and offensive coaches tell us that. I'm not ready to pat Troy Smith on the helmet just yet and say "Well son, at least your Heisman Trophy looks good on your mantle".

    In the meantime what good is that top QB if you don't have a defense that can hold an opponent.

    Maybe you should ask that same guy Carson Palmer what it's like to play on a team where they constantly lose despite his good QB play.

    Right now I put rushing the passer WAY ahead of new QB. So far ahead you can stick Cornerback and Wide Receiver between them


    As for the offensive line, I don't agree the problem is the talent not working out. I watched enough of Marshal Yanda to see that he's developing, but while he is he has been pretty solid. Adam Terry will be more than capable at LT (although of course not like JO). Ben Grubbs has already proven himself. That leaves Center and another guard spot to round out. As far as I am concerned what they need to do is politely tell JO and Mike Flynn it is time to retire gracefully, and then let the young line play EVERY GAME together this year and learn and grow.


    I'm split between wanting to see a DE or a CB, either of which I think we could trade back for. McAlister and Rolle aren't going to play 16 games anymore, and we are going to need someone better than David Pittman and Derrick Martin covering their spots and eventually taking them over. On the other hand, we need another young stud on the line opposite Suggs to actually get at the passer next year. Our sacks and hurry percentages were just sorry considering the year before that.




  9. #33

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    You realize almost noone can agree with you on this. Even those in the media, INCLUDING guys like Mel Kiper don't have us touching a QB in early going. Heck, Kiper has us taking a DT, which made me scratch my head.

    A QB in the first round isn't happening. You may as well strike the champaigne bottle to that boat and let it sail.
    Alot has changed over the last 3 weeks.

    Our whole staff is gonna gone (sans Rex as of now) so that means our whole draft could change.

    There is no way Im buying that a QB in the first round is a dead issue.

    There. We disagree on something
    PP




  10. #34

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    Carson Palmer, and he's only gotten his team to the playoffs once. Other than that he's no better than an 8-8 QB
    ...
    Maybe you should ask that same guy Carson Palmer what it's like to play on a team where they constantly lose despite his good QB play.
    You make this point as well, but I wanna point out that I think he is a better than an 8-8 QB. He put up, 45 points (I think) vs the Browns. It's hard to blame him for losing that one.

    On basically any other team (sans the really hopeless ones), if you put up 45 points on offense you win.




  11. #35

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    Alot has changed over the last 3 weeks.

    Our whole staff is gonna gone (sans Rex as of now) so that means our whole draft could change.

    There is no way Im buying that a QB in the first round is a dead issue.

    There. We disagree on something
    PP
    Hahah, I knew we could find something to disagree about!

    Seriously though, the problem is twofold. To draft a QB in the first round means you need to cut one of the three we have. Steve McNair should be cut, and everyone wants Boller cut. But if I am reading things right, McNair will be here next year. And no one is cutting Boller. Smith isn't going anywhere either.

    Top that with Cam Cameron already saying he was going to work out an offense that would play to the strengths of the QB's we already have here. Now, whether that means McNair, Boller, or Smith, we don't know yet. And honestly I am willing to give Harbaugh and Cameron the benefit of the doubt when they pick whichever guy it's gonna be.

    Second, the defense is aging. No doubt about it. And we've seen this year that the backup CB's are worthless, and without two good DE's, so is our pass rush. We've lost games that the offense actually produced points on beyond expectations based on defensive collapses and having CB's that simply couldn't do the job.


    If the new coaching staff decides the team needs to draft a first-round QB because McNair, Boller, and Smith aren't the answer TO THEM, then so be it. Again, I take what they offer a face value right now. I will also be extremely surprised if this happens because right now I can see higher needs than the QB position.




  12. #36

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dont Know View Post
    You make this point as well, but I wanna point out that I think he is a better than an 8-8 QB. He put up, 45 points (I think) vs the Browns. It's hard to blame him for losing that one.

    On basically any other team (sans the really hopeless ones), if you put up 45 points on offense you win.
    Agreed, which is why I think we are better suited restocking our defense to improve it before anything else.

    Palmer came into the NFL as advertised. But unfortunately he can't put that team on his back and lead them very far. And that is not all his fault either. I happen to like Carson Palmer, and like to watch him play. If he was available in that draft and the Ravens had a spot to take him in, we all know he'd be here. Whether he succeeds here or not is a different story, but no question we would have picked him over Boller AND Leftwich.




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