Brian Billick employed again ???

[Rayvens52]

Just wait and see what happens if Harbaugh doesn't set the world on fire from the get go.

The "Anybody but Billick" crowd is in for a rude awakening come next September when we trot what looks to be almost the same offensive personnel out there that we did last year.

PP

I agree. I am not expecting any miracles here. I am just hoping that somenew blood on the coaching front will change players attitudes. I'm thankful for Billick, he did get us a ring, but I was also happy to see him leave as it was time. This is going to be a great year as we will find out if we just needed a change at the top, or if we need to start to rebuild. If we need to rebuild fine, we get to see some new faces through FA and the draft, if not we get to watch our players change the way the look at the game. Either way this should be fun!

[B-more Ravor]

I too think he'll sit out this year, but......if there is one guy who could get him back, it's possible that it's his brother-in-law (assuming they are still close, as was always reported when they were both here).

[darb72]

Im sorry.

Remind me again what the point of playing these games is?

I seem to remember it's to win them.

Do you think the fact that the talent on offense this team has had is among the worst in the league has anything to do with it's struggles?

What do you expect the Harbaugh/Cameron combo to do with this offense?

Do you think it's gonna be much improved even though it looks like the major components are gonna be the same?

It's amazing how some people wanna take away wins from a former coach who won a SB and had an overall winning record during a 9 year run.

I wonder what's gonna happen if we don't go 12-4 and win the division next season.

I bet some will still be blaming Billick.

Heaven forbid the players take some responsibility for their actual play on the field.

PP

I'm wanting to see our offense play to win. Are we going to match the Patriots or Colts? Nope. Can we actually not give up in the red-zone and stop settleing for FGs? That I'm hopeful for.

New coach, new attitude. Hopefully more wins.

[Heap86]

Do you think the fact that the talent on offense this team has had is among the worst in the league has anything to do with it's struggles?


Well, the talent at QB that Billick picked were all failures

Boller, Grbac, Case, Mitchell etc., all guys hand picked by Billick, not to mention the QB who took us to the Superbowl was later dumped by Billick and an up and coming superstar who is now in Cleveland was cut by Billick.

Just about all of his personnel decisions involving Quarterbacks have been horrible.

Don't go and make excuses that the Offensive talent he was given was crap.

The only good decision Billick made in his coaching tenure was to bench Tony Banks in favor of Trent Dilfer.

[purplepoe]

Do you think the fact that the talent on offense this team has had is among the worst in the league has anything to do with it's struggles?


Well, the talent at QB that Billick picked were all failures

Boller, Grbac, Case, Mitchell etc., all guys hand picked by Billick, not to mention the QB who took us to the Superbowl was later dumped by Billick and an up and coming superstar who is now in Cleveland was cut by Billick.

Just about all of his personnel decisions involving Quarterbacks have been horrible.

Don't go and make excuses that the Offensive talent he was given was crap.

The only good decision Billick made in his coaching tenure was to bench Tony Banks in favor of Trent Dilfer.

Wow, Billick was not only the coach but the GM as well?

Geez, he was underpaid at $5 million a year if he was pulling double duty.

PP

[Losac]

Wow, Billick was not only the coach but the GM as well?

Geez, he was underpaid at $5 million a year if he was pulling double duty.

PP

I'm sorry, Billick was not the GM, but he most certainly had a hand in picking Boller, trading for Mitchell, and signing Grbac/dumping Dilfer. At least it was his decision to start Boller as a rookie and put him right into the fire.

[HoustonRaven]

Wow, Billick was not only the coach but the GM as well?

Geez, he was underpaid at $5 million a year if he was pulling double duty.

PP

Oh stop. You know what he meant.

Billick loved the Pac-10 and was very into Boller's future when he was at Cal. That's not some big secret. Ngata was "hand picked" by Billick too -- meaning he pushed for him to get signed.

[festivus]

I'm sorry, Billick was not the GM, but he most certainly had a hand in picking Boller, trading for Mitchell, and signing Grbac/dumping Dilfer. At least it was his decision to start Boller as a rookie and put him right into the fire.

Yes, starting him instead of Chris freakin' Redman. We would have won the goddamned Super Bowl with Chris "I wasn't ready to play" Redman!

Whatever Billick's contributions behind closed doors, he was *not* the gm, and personnel is the gm's responsibility. Blaming Billick for personnel decisions is like blaming the Vice President for stuff the President does.

I should probably let you guys hate unreasonably on Billick, now that he's gone and getting paid for sitting on his front porch, but it's irritating. Oh well, carry on.

[highwater]

Billick loved the Pac-10 and was very into Boller's future when he was at Cal.

Then why did the Ravens try to trade up with the Vikings to draft Leftwich? If the Vikings answer the phone and get things done in a timely manner, Boller doesn't even get drafted by the Ravens.

Of course Billick had some input into some of these decisions, but stop turning him into the personnel guy. He wasn't.

[Losac]

Yes, starting him instead of Chris freakin' Redman. We would have won the goddamned Super Bowl with Chris "I wasn't ready to play" Redman!

Who needs him when you have a green rookie who can throw the ball through the goal posts from his knees!

[RAVENOUS52]

**AHEM!!**

I'll take the time to step away from you cats bickering like a bunch of old hags at Bingo Night in South Baltimore and get back to the actual (gasp!) TOPIC of this thread.

I don't think Billick will step back into the shark tank as anything less than a HC and not unless the situation fits his specific parameters <--(Billick-speak).

Also, I feel it's too soon for him to do so and that he'll need a couple of years to lick his wounds and collect his money, all while raising the IQ of whichever NFL program he decides to let employ him...

I know I'll be watching attentively with pen and pad whenever he's on...

[RavensNTerps]

If the Ravens had drafted Leftwich and he didn't pan out, as he hasn't panned out, then I bet our "fans" would be saying that Leftwich was Billick's boy but Ozzie wanted Boller.

[festivus]

Who needs him when you have a green rookie who can throw the ball through the goal posts from his knees!

Losac, to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, you play NFL football with the team you have, not the team you want.

I really hadn't pegged you for one of the ones who thought Redman should have been starting, and was evilly ruined by Brian Billick. It's not like Redman *ever* did anything to make me wonder, but perhaps the fact that Redman was once again on an NFL team this year is justification in your mind for second guessing that decision made six years ago.

Color me wrong, I guess.

If you *are* one of those folks then I don't care to discuss it anymore, no offense.

[HoustonRaven]

Then why did the Ravens try to trade up with the Vikings to draft Leftwich? If the Vikings answer the phone and get things done in a timely manner, Boller doesn't even get drafted by the Ravens.

Of course Billick had some input into some of these decisions, but stop turning him into the personnel guy. He wasn't.

No team focuses on ONE player. They didnt target Leftwich and nobody else. Billick has a long track record with pac-10 schools. Boller had is eye.

When did I say he is the personnel guy??? Just because he doesnt make the final decision doesnt mean his input ranks low. He was the chef (as is Harbaugh now) and has the biggest say on what ingrediants he wants.

[festivus]

No team focuses on ONE player. They didnt target Leftwich and nobody else. Billick has a long track record with pac-10 schools. Boller had is eye.

When did I say he is the personnel guy??? Just because he doesnt make the final decision doesnt mean his input ranks low. He was the chef (as is Harbaugh now) and has the biggest say on what ingrediants he wants.

No.

No no no no no no.

No.

Houston stating things as fact does not make them so.

Sorry.

Billick did *not* have responsibility for drafting when he was here as head coach.

Nevermind that we were literally desperate for a quarterback, because of the early departure of Grbac, and we needed somebody who could take snaps. We got someone at pick 19 who is still in the league, five years later. Other teams have done worse at qb with better picks.

Boller was *Ozzie's* pick. However much Billick may have liked him or disliked him, he was Ozzie's pick. It is not the Vice President who signs a bill into law.

:brickwall:

[HoustonRaven]

No.

No no no no no no.

No.

Houston stating things as fact does not make them so.

Sorry.

Billick did *not* have responsibility for drafting when he was here as head coach.

Uhh ... I never said he did.

Nevermind that we were literally desperate for a quarterback, because of the early departure of Grbac, and we needed somebody who could take snaps. We got someone at pick 19 who is still in the league, five years later. Other teams have done worse at qb with better picks.

Boller was *Ozzie's* pick. However much Billick may have liked him or disliked him, he was Ozzie's pick. It is not the Vice President who signs a bill into law.

:brickwall:

I agree. Arent we saying the same thing? Yes, of course, its not Billick alone. I've said that and will always say it. But his input is much larger then you give him credit for. Teams do not become succesful with GM's who are in the coaches way -- see down 95 with the Maryland Redskins.

Are you saying that Billick simply got players handed to him and was told to make due with what he got?

That's not very realistic and if Next Man Up is accurate, that's not a realistic assumption on your part.

[festivus]

Houston you are saying Ozzie was gm, and Billick had some responsibility for the selection of Kyle Boller because of Billick's influence over the decision making process.

What I am saying is, Ozzie was gm, and Ozzie took the input of coaches at all levels, including position coaches, and of course the recommendations of his own staff, before he and he alone took responsibility for making draft selections. Brian's voice was one of many in Ozzie's ear.

Houston don't wave Next Man Up at me. I read it. Did you?

[HoustonRaven]

Houston you are saying Ozzie was gm, and Billick had some responsibility for the selection of Kyle Boller because of Billick's influence over the decision making process.

Of course not. I do say he (and now Harbaugh) has strong input. If he or Harbaugh go to Ozzie and says they want Joe Schmo, Ozzie will do what he can to make it happen. Why else was every head coach at the senior games this past weekend?

What I am saying is, Ozzie was gm, and Ozzie took the input of coaches at all levels, including position coaches, and of course the recommendations of his own staff, before he and he alone took responsibility for making draft selections. Brian's voice was one of many in Ozzie's ear.

Houston don't wave Next Man Up at me. I read it. Did you?

Yeah. Read it twice. And it's quite detailed how beholdened Billick was to Boller. I dont doubt Ozzie liked him too. Yes, Billick was one of many voices. But I think it's clear, based on local and national media combined with inside reports like Next Man Up, that Billick had more then just a one-voice say in who we drafted.

Yes, Ozzie has final say. That's the job of the GM. But he doesnt ship people to the coach that the coach doesnt want either.

[highwater]

He was the chef (as is Harbaugh now) and has the biggest say on what ingrediants he wants.

Wrong again -- of course Billick had some input, as any HC should, but he did not have the "biggest say." That would belong to Ozzie.

And yes, I read "Next Man Up" too. We seem to be interpreting it differently.

[festivus]

Of course not. I do say he (and now Harbaugh) has strong input. If he or Harbaugh go to Ozzie and says they want Joe Schmo, Ozzie will do what he can to make it happen. Why else was every head coach at the senior games this past weekend?

You keep making it sound like Ozzie is some kind of waiter taking orders from his coaches.

That's just wrong. Coaches can voice their opinions just as my kids can voice their opinions at family dinner, and the Vice President can voice his opinion about whether a bill becomes a law.

If you were right, why would the scouts not work for the coaching staff, instead of for the gm?

Number of times read Next Man Up =/= Number of times understood Next Man Up

You remain obstinately wrong on a simple point, and I no longer am interested in persuading you.

Cheers!