Ray Lewis = Tiki Barber

[Rex Thunder]

Okay- I'm still excited (and a bit buzzed) from the Giants upset win over the Patriots- and don't want to get into a long argument right now- but after a second of though- I had an epiphany.. and it's one that I've had before actually- only now I have a clear cut example to compare and rationalize my thought to.

Tiki Barber was basically the face of the NY gianst last year- they're "MVP." He was the vocal leader of his team- at least by all appearances. Tom Coughlin looks like he is going to get fired, but he doesn't. TIKE RETIRED(and was planning to regardless)...

So I guess my question is- if Tiki had not alreday pre-planned his retirement, would Coughlin have still been around this year to lead this Superbowl run?

My answer- I doubt it! ...and look how it turned out.

Tiki's malcontent, verbal and senior authority over the team wouldnt have surley meant Coughlin's job- and Eli would have NEVER growninto the HERO he is now going to be looked upon as. Tiki STUNTED his growth. I think it's an all too poetic slap in the face on Tiki after his classless "poking fun" of Eli and his "attempts" to show leadership last season. Now who looks like a chump?

Tike goes. Coughlin stays. SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONSHIP and MVP for Eli Manning!!!

So - how does this compare to our Ravens? Well- quite honestly- just as I feel the presence of Miguel tejada became more of an obstruction than a positive in the orioles clubhouse, I'm beginning to wonder if the same can't be said for our very own number 52- RAY LEWIS.

And know as I say this- that he is the first and only jersey I have worn since the Ravens came to baltimore. I have won Pro Bowl vacations to Hawaii calling in to talk radio shows to DEFEND Ray Lewis (the same year we won the Superbowl, coincidentally)... I am a fan of #52.. but as I sit here- I can honestly say he has how do you say, "become too big for his britches?"

IMO, Ray Lewis now puts himself before the team. He publicly called out his coach- which is just an outright slap in the face to someone who has defended him over the years. He was a malcontent in the offseason- voicing his concerns over our drafting and FA pickups to the point of practically DEMANDING a trade. He basically acts as the Godfather over all things Ravens...

This is NOT GOOD. What we saw in the Superbowl tonight was TWO TEAMS! As much as I have loved Ray- he seemed to point too many fingers last year- and all the while muting any voices that may have risen were he not there.

I'm not comparing Kyle Boller to Eli Manning- but they DO SHARE a lot of the same intangibles.. and crazy as it sounds.. they both had A LOT OF THE SAME CRITICISMS coming at them the past few seasons.

So what happened to Eli?

Well- it's obvious. With Tiki gone- and no clear voice dominating the locker room- his own leadership was allowed to take over. And don't get me wrong- I'm not necessarily saying that Kyle would have done the same thing (although I don't doubt it)- but ANYONE else on the team could have... and who knows how the team wouldve responded...

Ray has become larger than life in Baltimore when it comes to the Ravens- and deservedly so- but it's at the point where it's hurting the team , IMO.

Billick didn't do a whole lot different last season as opposed to 2006. Injuries, bad luck, and circumstance did him in if you ask me. From 13-3 to 5-11!! Was Billick playing? Sure- there were some questionable calls on his part... but I look at them as a matter of circumstance- trying to be TOO SMART to make up for lack of success playing straight up... and with that said, we were in position to win A LOT OF GAMES this season, but didn't.. IMO, more bad luck and unfortunate bounces than anything (I mean really- WE SHOULD HAVE BEAT THE PATRIOTS!)... But Billick's fate was grounded with ray's voice. So long as the team rode on Ray's back- his voice would lead- and his voice called out Billick.... He didn't call out Mcnair (at least not specifically).. he didn't call out the dropped passes, the bad calls, the missed tackles, or fumbled interceptions... nope- he called out the easy target- BILLICK! Now whether you agree with his position or not- my point is- as soon as he does that- and his voice is the authoritive one in the locker room- there is going to be separation- and NOT for the betterment of the team... He thought it was his place to make his own thoughts MORE IMPORTANT than the coach's- and that IS NOT GOOD FOR ANY TEAM. No team can have ONE PLAYER acting as though they are above the coach- and above reproach- and Ray Lewis did. SO DID TIKI- but then HE retired!

I 'll bet Tom Coughlin sure is happy Tiki decided to retire. Remember how they talked about it being a distraction last year. Tom probably sat back in his rocking chair and WELCOMED that distraction.

The time for new Ravens to step up and lead is now. I hope that Rex Ryan's staying out doesn't allow Ray's voice to dominate in the same fashion that it has. Again- he has earned his voice inside the locker room- but it's just gotten to a point where it's too much... and coming from a guy past his prime. The ravens had their time in the sun with Ray driving the bus (just as Tiki did with the Gianst- WHEN WE BEAT THEM IN THE SUPERBOWL!!)- but that time is past- and his presence has become more of a distraction than a building block. NO new branches can grow to the tree top- so long as #52 is taking in all the sun...

I hope this made sense- and I didn't go off point too much- but as I said- I have been drinking all day during the big game- and had to get this thought out now.

[JonG316]

Everything you said about Ray Lewis could be said about Brett Favre too.

[evade6317]

I've never read such an elaborate "Kyle Boller is really good" thread as this one.

Eli isn't the leader of the Giants, Michael Strahan is. Just like Ray is the leader of the Ravens. Tiki was the vocal leader of the offense and in turn he held the offense back with his comments and play on OFFENSE. Jeremy Shockey is the same as Tiki.

If the team played better when Ray was out, you'd be onto something. But when Ray doesn't play, it shows.

Bottom line is that Billick couldn't develop Boller or put together an above-average offense. Ray and the D are the best things they both had going for them. With the exception of last year and 2002 when Ray was injured most of the year, the D was in the top 10 in scoring.

Letting Billick go may not have been neccesary, but if it meant axing the Boller experiment, it was worth it.

Ray is still the MVP of the Ravens.

[Ravens52]

If you have kept up with any of the stories about the Giants you will realize that Coughlin was the one that did a little bending and changing and gained the trust of the locker room.

[HoustonRaven]

Nobody should ever look at this team with purple colored glasses, failing to see the faults.

But to make this comparison (in such a long-winded way) is so far from reality it's embarrassing.

Tiki was a lockroom cancer, Ray isnt.

Tiki was mocked and a loner. Ray is respected in the locker room and the inspiration of the team.

So because Ray has called out the coach (which dozen of other athletes have done, right or wrong) he is some how the scourge of Baltimore???

No player is perfect and Ray has his faults. But please make such comparisons in the world of reality!

[RavensNTerps]

I've never read such an elaborate "Kyle Boller is really good" thread as this one.

Eli isn't the leader of the Giants, Michael Strahan is. Just like Ray is the leader of the Ravens. Tiki was the vocal leader of the offense and in turn he held the offense back with his comments and play on OFFENSE. Jeremy Shockey is the same as Tiki.

If the team played better when Ray was out, you'd be onto something. But when Ray doesn't play, it shows.
Bottom line is that Billick couldn't develop Boller or put together an above-average offense. Ray and the D are the best things they both had going for them. With the exception of last year and 2002 when Ray was injured most of the year, the D was in the top 10 in scoring.

Letting Billick go may not have been neccesary, but if it meant axing the Boller experiment, it was worth it.

Ray is still the MVP of the Ravens.

On an overall scale, the team never really plays worse without Ray Lewis. Some individual games, sure.

But in 2005, the 6-10 year, we actually won more games without him than we did with him.

[Hook]

I've never read such an elaborate "Kyle Boller is really good" thread as this one.

Fuck-in A. Anyone blaming Ray Lewis for our misfortunes is in a very strange place. Even Stranger if you consider that Eli and Boller "DO SHARE a lot of the same intangibles".

And to compare Tiki to Ray is such horseshit. The level of leadership isn't even comparable.

RAY won a Superbowl (pretty much by himself) and a few other things like DMVP. His presence is not a distraction its a necessity.

Dude take off you Jersey and throw it away. How Dare you say those things about Ray.

If the team played better when Ray was out, you'd be onto something. But when Ray doesn't play, it shows.

Nothing more needs to be said.

[RavenTD]

The hate I see for Ray from some raven fans makes me
And makes me on the inside.

[4G63]

If the team played better when Ray was out, you'd be onto something. But when Ray doesn't play, it shows.

Ray is still the MVP of the Ravens.

Correct......sometimes he needs to keep his mouth shut, but when he finally retires you all are gonna miss him. I have mad for Ray, I think he just needs to tone it down off the field. I can understand his frustration though.....

[festivus]

The Ravens as we've known them, defined by Ray Lewis, Jonathan Ogden, Brian Billick and Kyle Boller, are beginning the transformation into the next generation.

Each of those guys has, in different measure, contributed to controversy and I expect to see each one ripped by perfectly loyal fines on these boards every now and then.

But get out your handkerchiefs and have a cry, soon we will be getting by without any of them, and debates like this will be gone.



As much as I *like* Kyle, as a backup qb, and as much as I sometimes wish we could have On the Field Ray without Off the Field Ray, :2c: :

Ray =/= Tiki
Ray is a first ballot hall of famer. Who the hell is Tiki Barber? If he'd been a Carolina Panther nobody would even know his name.

Kyle =/= Eli
They just aren't. If you could take Kyle's charisma and heart and put it in Eli's body. . . They each have their drawbacks, though now Eli's drawbacks are decorated with a SuperBowl ring.

Ray\Ravens =/= Tiki\Giants
Ray does not equal Tiki, the Giants don't equal the Ravens, and Coughlin is a long way away from Billick.

No judgement on my part, just observing the OP is comparing apples and airplanes, so it doesn't work for me.

[Fcowher]

Ray is the consumate leader who has proven he would play hurt. Tiki is a vagina.

[RavensNTerps]

[QUOTE=Hook;75210]Fuck-in A. Anyone blaming Ray Lewis for our misfortunes is in a very strange place. Even Stranger if you consider that Eli and Boller "DO SHARE a lot of the same intangibles".

And to compare Tiki to Ray is such horseshit. The level of leadership isn't even comparable.

RAY won a Superbowl (pretty much by himself) and a few other things like DMVP. His presence is not a distraction its a necessity.

Dude take off you Jersey and throw it away. How Dare you say those things about Ray.


Nothing more needs to be said.[/QUOTE]

Except that it's not true....

[Purpleguy]

I wouldn't make a Ray/Tiki comparison, but you could compare Coughlin and Billick. Both were coaches that the players lobbied to get them shitcanned. One owner listened to the players and the other told them to shove it and stuck with his guy. We see how things worked out in that situation.

[HoustonRaven]

I wouldn't make a Ray/Tiki comparison, but you could compare Coughlin and Billick. Both were coaches that the players lobbied to get them shitcanned. One owner listened to the players and the other told them to shove it and stuck with his guy. We see how things worked out in that situation.

Proof? other than what a few on NST have to say?

[Purpleguy]

Proof? other than what a few on NST have to say?

You keep living in imagination land Houston. I'm sure Rex was Harbaugh's first choice as D-coordinator too. I'm sure he was given complete control over his staff just like the Biscuit said he would.

[HoustonRaven]

You keep living in imagination land Houston. I'm sure Rex was Harbaugh's first choice as D-coordinator too. I'm sure he was given complete control over his staff just like the Biscuit said he would.

If it's such an obvious fact, you should have no problem giving examples other than conjecture, ad hominem attacks and rumor. Just because someone wasnt someone else first choice does not make for a good argument that players had mutiny on their brains.

So wheres the proof?

[festivus]

Proof? other than what a few on NST have to say?

And elsewhere. NST was not the first or only media outlet with that story.

Coughlin and Billick have in common that elements of their team were tired of listening to them, but they are two very different styles of coaches, with two very different track records with their respective teams.

[Fanman]

any talk that Billick deserved to come back is just absurd. He was a big problem and the team could not move forward w/ him as the HC/OC.

Time will prove that canning Billick was a good move.

And Ray is twice the player Barber ever was.

FM

[bmore finest]

Truly if your a Ravens fan, you can't dislike Ray Ray. Yes he is the biggest thing in Bmore. but his passion and love for the game is a honor for me to be a 100% Ravens fan.

Yes he speaks alot, and have some off field issue. But if you were a icon in bmore i'm sure we all would have issue too. i love Ray, no doubt!! And sooner then later he won't be leading this great D of ours anymore.

To Ray, do what you do!!

can anybody say TAMPA 2. 2 superbowl won in the same city.

[festivus]

Truly if your a Ravens fan, you can't dislike Ray Ray.

I'm glad he's on my team.

But I can dislike him all I want.