Adam Terry carted off !!

**ravenmad71** · 07-29-2008, 10:19 AM

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/f...,1546718.story

Becoming a M.A.S.H unit in Westminter... Geez

**Greg** · 07-29-2008, 10:34 AM

Camp Creampuff doesn't look so bad now.

**UKRavenStockers** · 07-29-2008, 10:39 AM

I've been pondering this for the first few days of training camp, but why if Terry is "very noticeably limping" participating fully in training camp? Clearly we're thin on the O-line, Bill Tessendorf will have to have OK'd it and Terry wants to be out there, but it just seems an excessive risk. I do hope this isn't linked to his off-season because the last thing we need is the cries for the return of camp creampuff less than a week in to camp hardball.

Less than a week in and we're already at our third string LT, hmm, that's a less than encouraging start.

**purplepoe** · 07-29-2008, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers

I've been pondering this for the first few days of training camp, but why if Terry is "very noticeably limping" participating fully in training camp? Clearly we're thin on the O-line, Bill Tessendorf will have to have OK'd it and Terry wants to be out there, but it just seems an excessive risk. I do hope this isn't linked to his off-season because the last thing we need is the cries for the return of camp creampuff less than a week in to camp hardball.

Less than a week in and we're already at our third string LT, hmm, that's a less than encouraging start.

I thought the same exact thing. By all accounts Terry has been favoring that ankle BIG time all camp.

The tackle position was pretty precarious entering camp. I still can't believe that Ozzie pegged a guy in Gaither, who was late to weight sessions etc... and a project, as the starting LT. And Terry, who was clearly not 100%, was the starting RT when he showed basically nothing at RT when he's had the chance.

This situation is becoming dire.

PP

**RavenScallywag** · 07-29-2008, 11:33 AM

Mike Preston said we might convert Roman Oben, who is currently with us in an informal coaching type role, into a player to come in at OT. Terry's injury was being foreshadowed for the past few days, as he's been hobbling around at camp. He was playing hurt or at least shakily, so this doesn't come as much suprise. I only hope Kracalik and Cousins can step up. We could also see Yanda move back to RT and, *groan* Chester start lining up at RG. Also, Hale is in the mix in there too.

**UKRavenStockers** · 07-29-2008, 11:48 AM

Personally I'd switch up Yanda and Cousins in the current line up if Terry's injury proves to be as serious as I fear it is from his reported reaction. Yanda was perfectly decent at RT and though I think he'll be better inside, I think he's likely to be far better than anything else we can muster at RT. The pre-draft bumpf on Cousins was that he had the raw ability to play tackle but needed a season inside at guard to refine his space before shifting back outside into space at RT. If we like his nastiness, raw strength and aggression so much then I wonder whether we'll follow the pre-draft wisdom and shift Yanda back outside and give Cousins a year of experience at guard. Cousins aggression and strength to me sounds a more appealing prospect than Chester's apparent apathy and the weakness at the POA we've seen in the past.

**ChampRavens** · 07-29-2008, 12:00 PM

Wow. This could not have started out much worse.

Our shotty Oline is now 5 days in and 2 or 3 guys down. Ugg...

**Rayvens52** · 07-29-2008, 01:29 PM

IMO it is all Camp creampuffs fault. There is a reason we had so many injuries last year and it is happening again this year as a result of the lack of training last year. In the next several years this should not be an issue but until these guys really get back into football shape we will continue to see this. There is a reason so many other teams practice the same as we are now and do not have any injuries, they are prepared. Again just my opinion but I like the way camp is going and for those that play this season there will be some hitting going on both sides of the ball.....should be fun!

**purplepoe** · 07-29-2008, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Rayvens52

IMO it is all Camp creampuffs fault. There is a reason we had so many injuries last year and it is happening again this year as a result of the lack of training last year. In the next several years this should not be an issue but until these guys really get back into football shape we will continue to see this. There is a reason so many other teams practice the same as we are now and do not have any injuries, they are prepared. Again just my opinion but I like the way camp is going and for those that play this season there will be some hitting going on both sides of the ball.....should be fun!

So Adam Terry re-injuring the ankle that was hurt midseason last year and operated on in January is the fault last year's training camp?

Jared Gaither turning an ankle. The same reason?

Haloti Ngata's knee injury (btw, he did the same thing in camp in 2006) has to do with last year's camp?

How do you explain the 13-3 season in 2006?

Is your post serious?

I know the Billick blame game is still alive, but this is hilarious.

Just so I'm clear. Your reasoning for these injuries goes back to Brian Billick's last camp.

Is this correct?

PP

**The Fanatic** · 07-29-2008, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by purplepoe

The tackle position was pretty precarious entering camp. I still can't believe that Ozzie pegged a guy in Gaither, who was late to weight sessions etc... and a project, as the starting LT. And Terry, who was clearly not 100%, was the starting RT when he showed basically nothing at RT when he's had the chance.

I'm right there with you!!
Many of us on here have been saying for years that alot of our offensive woes have got more to do with our offensive line play then anything.
For years now the o-line (particurally the tackle spot) has been ignored by the FO, or at best placed at as a low priority via free agency and the draft.

We've drafted guys who are viewed as projects or developmental types, and brung in top free agents such as Orlando Bobo and Zeus.

How in the hell we could walk into this season with two guys projected to be our starting tackles that might have a hard time being other teams' depth is beyond my comprehension.

We fork over big bucks to Mcgahee when in reality we should be forking over bucks to the tackle position.

How freakin' long has Terry been here, and he still couldn't really crack into the starting line up?
The only reason he's in there now as a starter is becausae we have nobody else!!
The depth behind Terry and Gaither probably wouldn't even be able to make most other teams' rosters much less be moved up to start at this point.

This is inexcusible IMO, and somebodys head should roll for allowing this to happen.

How the hell you can go draft a QB, project him to be the future (and possibly get significant playing time this year) and not put significant resources into building his protection is assinine at best.

Why is it that some jackass fan like myself can see that our offensive line play for years has been sub par, but the people that get paid to make these decisions and fix it continue to either ignore it, or not recognize the problem to begin with?

Listening to Drew and Nestor this morning, both said that their sources within the know over there said that they are highly concerned about the offensive line and that was before the Terry incident today.

Anybody they may get at this point is either going to be other teams' rejects, or vets that probably don't have much left to offer.

Fucking huge waste of a season if you ask me by ignoring this glaring need since God knows when.

If this team manages to pull out a 500 season I'll be in shock.
I'll be in even more shock if all of our QBs aren't hospitalized by the end of the season.

Am I the only one that's this pissed off about this crap?

I may be on here, but I gurantee you there's a whole bunch of defensive players and maybe a few on offense that are seeing trhe same damn thing and are just shaking their heads.

**purplepoe** · 07-29-2008, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by The Fanatic

I'm right there with you!!
Many of us on here have been saying for years that alot of our offensive woes have got more to do with our offensive line play then anything.
For years now the o-line (particurally the tackle spot) has been ignored by the FO, or at best placed at as a low priority via free agency and the draft.

We've drafted guys who are viewed as projects or developmental types, and brung in top free agents such as Orlando Bobo and Zeus.

How in the hell we could walk into this season with two guys projected to be our starting tackles that might have a hard time being other teams' depth is beyond my comprehension.

We fork over big bucks to Mcgahee when in reality we should be forking over bucks to the tackle position.

How freakin' long has Terry been here, and he still couldn't really crack into the starting line up?
The only reason he's in there now as a starter is becausae we have nobody else!!
The depth behind Terry and Gaither probably wouldn't even be able to make most other teams' rosters much less be moved up to start at this point.

This is inexcusible IMO, and somebodys head should roll for allowing this to happen.

How the hell you can go draft a QB, project him to be the future (and possibly get significant playing time this year) and not put significant resources into building his protection is assinine at best.

Why is it that some jackass fan like myself can see that our offensive line play for years has been sub par, but the people that get paid to make these decisions and fix it continue to either ignore it, or not recognize the problem to begin with?

Listening to Drew and Nestor this morning, both said that their sources within the know over there said that they are highly concerned about the offensive line and that was before the Terry incident today.

Anybody they may get at this point is either going to be other teams' rejects, or vets that probably don't have much left to offer.

Fucking huge waste of a season if you ask me by ignoring this glaring need since God knows when.

If this team manages to pull out a 500 season I'll be in shock.
I'll be in even more shock if all of our QBs aren't hospitalized by the end of the season.

Am I the only one that's this pissed off about this crap?

I may be on here, but I gurantee you there's a whole bunch of defensive players and maybe a few on offense that are seeing trhe same damn thing and are just shaking their heads.

The person who needs to be held accountable is the person who puts this team together. And that person is Ozzie Newsome. He's been given a free pass year after year by the media and many fans.

There's no place for him to hide now. We've gone through players, coaches, coordinators, and now a head coach.

I'm sure someone will tell me how great Ozzie is etc.....

Whatever. This team hasn't won a playoff game since 2001. What GM gets this much praise with those kind of results?

PP

**RavenScallywag** · 07-29-2008, 04:43 PM

I won't lay the blame on Camp Creampuff, but part of me agrees with our philosophy still...Training Camp serves 2 purposes: 1) Compete for a roster/starting spot...2) Get you into football/playing shape

Yeah, injuries suck, but if we were running a lax camp, Terry could go down Week 1 and we'd be screwed worse. This way, yeah maybe you get a few injuries and strains, but you get the other players into a tougher shape for the season.

As for our OL player situation, I think we have to realize that Ozzie and the coaching staff decided we were in a rebuilding mode with that OL...They're going to get worse before they get better. I kind've look at what Jason Brown went through...he replace Ed Mulitalo two years back...there were some rough spots, but the Ravens stuck with him. The next year, he comes in with the experience and gives a MUCH better performance. A lot of these OL need to take their lumps (not injuries, but getting beat and made to look bad) for a year or so before they're going to develop into the OL we want them to be...Guys like Gaither and Grubbs are on their way to looking better. Terry has just had a run of rough luck, like Cody has.

**purplepoe** · 07-29-2008, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by RavenScallywag

I won't lay the blame on Camp Creampuff, but part of me agrees with our philosophy still...Training Camp serves 2 purposes: 1) Compete for a roster/starting spot...2) Get you into football/playing shape

Yeah, injuries suck, but if we were running a lax camp, Terry could go down Week 1 and we'd be screwed worse. This way, yeah maybe you get a few injuries and strains, but you get the other players into a tougher shape for the season.

As for our OL player situation, I think we have to realize that Ozzie and the coaching staff decided we were in a rebuilding mode with that OL...They're going to get worse before they get better. I kind've look at what Jason Brown went through...he replace Ed Mulitalo two years back...there were some rough spots, but the Ravens stuck with him. The next year, he comes in with the experience and gives a MUCH better performance. A lot of these OL need to take their lumps (not injuries, but getting beat and made to look bad) for a year or so before they're going to develop into the OL we want them to be...Guys like Gaither and Grubbs are on their way to looking better. Terry has just had a run of rough luck, like Cody has.

Sorry, but going into camp with Gaither and Terry as the starters was a flat out dangerous move.

How can you "rebuild" when your two bookends can't play?

Even if they stayed healthy it was a very shaky situation. Having at least one vet with some proven time was a must IMO.

PP

P.S. Congrats on the little one.

**Greg** · 07-29-2008, 04:49 PM

If players aren't in shape that is the players' fault, not Billick's. Training camp isn't to get into shape anymore, it is to practice plays and techniques. You should be in shape all year round.

**UKRavenStockers** · 07-29-2008, 04:58 PM

I'm not gonna say that we've got a good O-line or that it isn't a problem, but I think that by and large the fans around here have a propensity to under-estimate the quality of our offensive line. It's not a good line, but at the same time it's not a million miles off of the bottom of the pack that some seem to think. Some wiser investment would certainly be appreciated, but to say that the line hasn't been addressed is off of the mark, we've had a slew of recent day one picks on the O-line to try and fix the line. Yes some big money free agents would be nice but in the current climate of the NFL teams just don't let their good games hit free agency. With the franchise tag making losing your big name free agents almost impossible unless you hideously mis-manage the cap, teams are by and large better at managing the cap and teams are finding more and more loopholes to avoid cap hell, plus the salary cap is growing seemingly huge amounts every off-season.

Whilst there is talent changing hands every year teams are smarter and the best O-linemen are very rarely hitting the market, and when they do it's not worth the investment that some are going for these days, the money that Faneca and the likes got in the last two off-seasons are stupid amounts for veteran guards, particularly a guy like Faneca who is starting to turn downwards in his output and performances.

We've made the picks in the draft, last year the line was sub par but it wasn't atrocious. People like to think that the Colts and Patriots lines are all worldly, but they really aren't, the difference is (yes their lines are slightly better but please don't buy the crap about Tony Ugoh being really good last year) that Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have the best pocket presence in the league, they know where the pressure is coming from, they know their lines inside out. They turn what would be sacks by other QBs into just hits and pressures to shift and get the ball off. They can't take off and run like some other QBs, but they have the best footwork in the pocket of anyone. That's the difference maker on offensive lines in my mind, QBs with good pocket presence make average lines look great, QBs with poor pocket presence make average lines look bad.

This line has had the talent and the investment, what it needs is the time to gel and a QB to get to know how it's going to work. It needs some tinkering and I'd like to see more of a veteran presence in there, but I don't think that saying it's been ignored is a fair dig anymore. Now if the talent fails then you've gotta question the talent evaluation of the entire front office personnel (Ozzie, Eric and all the way through the scouting network) for offensive linemen. The seeming insistence of drafting projects and the best raw athletes for the lines I think is taken too far at times. We did a good job of getting away from it last year IMO with Grubbs and Yanda (with varying success on rookie years), but this year we've seemingly pensioned on the future, but if you're going to do that you've gotta stick to your plan, not panic when they don't produce straight away, that wasn't your plan so don't panic when your plan unfolds as you expect.

**Greg** · 07-29-2008, 05:03 PM

I think we have a quality middle of our line, the tackles are a question. If Terry were out there at LT I would be satisfied with that as he has filled in for Ogden quite well. His RT play was not adequate, however. I was hoping Gaither could do the job on the right side.

**The Fanatic** · 07-29-2008, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by RavenScallywag

As for our OL player situation, I think we have to realize that Ozzie and the coaching staff decided we were in a rebuilding mode with that OL...They're going to get worse before they get better. I kind've look at what Jason Brown went through...he replace Ed Mulitalo two years back...there were some rough spots, but the Ravens stuck with him. The next year, he comes in with the experience and gives a MUCH better performance. A lot of these OL need to take their lumps (not injuries, but getting beat and made to look bad) for a year or so before they're going to develop into the OL we want them to be...Guys like Gaither and Grubbs are on their way to looking better. Terry has just had a run of rough luck, like Cody has.

Jason Brown also had vets on the line with him with many years of starting experience.
Having JO to your side is basically like having a crutch to help you out.
Mulitalo had the same crutch.
The also both had Mike Flynn at center.
Not that Flynn is a world beater at center, but he was a vet with experience.
Right now Flynn looks like a 10 time pro-bowlewr compared to the reports that come out regarding Chester. (another wasted draft pick on a "project o-limeman")

In todays NFL, you have to be able to draft guys that can come in and contribute no later then 2 years.
With free agency, the salary cap., etc. you just don't have the ability to have mulitple players on your roster in developmental stages.
You can have a couple, but it can't be basically an entire freakin' starting unit!!

Inexcusible!!!

And Poes right, Qzzie cannot hide anymore.
Biggest question right now is if the man that signs the checks and is his buddy can see through the smoke.

On more then one occasion I have heard Ozzie say that they place their $$ value on those that touch the football, and those that touch the QB.

That's all fine and dandy but if you don't place high value on those that fight the war to allow those that touch the footballl to succeed, you're screwed!!

Guess what, we're screwed right now!!