Heroes and Goats...Week 5

[HoustonRaven]

The Suggs glasses are out in full force yet again ...

I am always scratching my head when someone with an obvious bias towards a player who isnt playing up to his potential always say "numbers dont show the whole story".

Ok, so what DO they show? Because last I checked, LB's of Suggs ilk are judged on their sack totals, pressure on the QB, tackles, etc. It's what THEY use when they are negotiationg contracts, showing how valuable they are to the team, etc. Yet, when it comes down to evaluating the player on our end, they mysteriously become invalid and incomplete.

Suggs had a sub-par game. Period. I know you two jock him pretty hard, but I mean this is a pretty obvious call.

Agree to disagree. But to say he was the hero on D negates the efforts of the 7 other defensive players who had better games.

[Jeremiah W]

How many sacks does Freeney have? Jared Allen, Julius Peppers? John Abraham leads the NFL and Joey Porter is right behind him.

Sacks are not what measures a guys ability. Too many other factors play in to it. Suggs has drawn double teams on almost every passing down and still got pressure and maintained his outside contain responsibility. he has not been beaten on any cutback runs or reverses, waggles or boots.
He is doing his job, and so is the defense, that like I said is #1 in the NFL in yards, points, passing and rushing.

I know it is disapointing to see them give up drives at the end of games, but that happens. They are still #1 even with that factored in. Suggs is a big part of that.

[RAVENOUS52]

How many sacks does Freeney have? Jared Allen, Julius Peppers? John Abraham leads the NFL and Joey Porter is right behind him.

Sacks are not what measures a guys ability. Too many other factors play in to it. Suggs has drawn double teams on almost every passing down and still got pressure and maintained his outside contain responsibility. he has not been beaten on any cutback runs or reverses, waggles or boots.
He is doing his job, and so is the defense, that like I said is #1 in the NFL in yards, points, passing and rushing.

I know it is disapointing to see them give up drives at the end of games, but that happens. They are still #1 even with that factored in. Suggs is a big part of that.

Stop using logic, Jeremiah... I give up on this HoustonRaven cat...

He seems to think insulting folks gives his point of view more validity.

Best to puttem on ignore.

[ravensnhokies]

Guys I rewatched the game and although I wasn't focused on the DL pressure, I did not think Suggs was doubleteamed that much. Filmstudy you will know. I noticed Pryce was DTed a lot.

I think that Suggs is definitely in the Top 10 of DEs (Hybrid LBs) in the NFL, maybe even in the Top 5, but if he demands Freeney money, who I think was overpaid, I would have to take a pass on Suggs. Ray needed a big guy to keep him away from blockers for him to shine. We got Ngata and Ray looks like the 2000 version of 52 this year. I am afraid that Suggs needs a Pryce like linemen thats gets pressure and forces offenses to doubleteam him. This allows Suggs to see a lot more one on ones against the OTs. Unfortunately Pryce is getting old, and his skills arent a dime a dozen. In general, we gotta equip Flacco with some better offensive talent moving forward, and spend some more money on that side (and more wisely.... McGahee contract ). Sure our D is going to suffer a little, but we gotta be able to score more points. The future Ravens' D may give up 17-20 points/game, but hopefully our O can score 24.

[RAVENOUS52]

That's the beauty of Suggs...He also drops back into pass coverage, and is getting pretty good at that, too...At this point in the season, he's right on track for a Pro Bowl invite. A homegrown playmaking sack artist who stuffs the run and is capable of dropping into coverage is a player I want on my team.

[HoustonRaven]

Stop using logic, Jeremiah... I give up on this HoustonRaven cat...

He seems to think insulting folks gives his point of view more validity.

Best to puttem on ignore.

What did I say that was insulting?

[StingerNLG]

I went back and looked, and I can't find where Suggs was putting pressure on Collins at any point except for the blown ref call. Other than that he was nowhere near the ball all game. And for that matter not much near Collins for a good chunk of that game.

BTW, he only had 2 tackles the entire game too, less than Douglass, Reed, and Scott.

I'm not sure where this is coming from.

[RAVENOUS52]

Look at the game tapes, not the CBS broadcast... Or better yet, NFL Live probably has a breakdown of the action. Admittedly, we rushed 4 most of the time, but I distinctively remember Suggs' pursuit causing Collins to jump forward in the pocket and release an errant pass, which C-Mac picked off. His tackle for a 5-yard loss was a big momentum shifter and... okay, I'm done with the play-by-play.

Read the disclaimer at the top of this thread...

[HoustonRaven]

According to the box score he had 3 ... not that one tackle really means a whole lot more. Just finished watching the TiVo of the game myself and I too didnt see any sort of double team, Suggs putting pressure on Collins, etc.

I know where this is coming from. They have a man crush on Suggs. I am guilty of it too -- I have strong opinions of number 52.

We all seem to agree Suggs is an elite LB in this league.

What seems to be the sticking point is that if you point out a sub-par performance, you have committed the message board equivalent of calling their mothers a whore.

[Jeremiah W]

According to the box score he had 3 ... not that one tackle really means a whole lot more. Just finished watching the TiVo of the game myself and I too didnt see any sort of double team, Suggs putting pressure on Collins, etc.

I know where this is coming from. They have a man crush on Suggs. I am guilty of it too -- I have strong opinions of number 52.

We all seem to agree Suggs is an elite LB in this league.

What seems to be the sticking point is that if you point out a sub-par performance, you have committed the message board equivalent of calling their mothers a whore.

That is not even close. It is about perspective. Did our defense play a great game, in my view yes, and Suggs was a big part of it.

When you break down one drive in the game that was added 15 yards on 3rd down with a bogus penalty, yuo can find mistakes. What did they do the rest of the day though? That matters too or we never would have been in positon to win with one more stop.

You are not the only ones upset at the outcome, but when you start nitpicking the top rated defense in the NFL, I think you need to take a step back and look at the big picture.

This reminds me of all the Samari Rolle bashing that was going on in 2006. You would think he was the worst DB in the NFL the way the fans complained about him, but as soon as he got hurt, we could not cover anyone.

If we do not have Suggs out there, perhaps we can not stop the run or get pressure on QBs. The Ravens are forcing every Qb they play into a very bad day, but Ben and the Titans made the one drive at the end of the game.

Did anyone else see Suggs getting held while he "roughed Collins" or the takedown of Ray Lewis by Maway on the pass to Bo. He just grabbed him and tackled him on the blitz. The Ravens have to get some of those calls in order to get the stop, or they need to get some more points, so one drive does not beat them.

[Lee Van Cleef]

I've given up complaining about holding. All you ever hear in response is "It evens itself out" and "If they called every hold the game would go on forever" and whilst I've applied perfectly logical arguments which counter those fallacies, people just don't want to hear it. It seems like, unless the D is making a big hit, people just don't want to watch a good defensive game, it's all about high-scoring shootouts because people have the attention span of gnats and want pretty passes to keep them amused. So you get columnists like Michael Silver saying that the Ravens play boring football because we run and play defense.

I mean, half the time I wonder if the NFL didn't send a memo to officials telling them not to bother calling holding unless it's really flagrant, because it's getting ridiculous.

[RAVENOUS52]

I've given up complaining about holding. All you ever hear in response is "It evens itself out" and "If they called every hold the game would go on forever" and whilst I've applied perfectly logical arguments which counter those fallacies, people just don't want to hear it. It seems like, unless the D is making a big hit, people just don't want to watch a good defensive game, it's all about high-scoring shootouts because people have the attention span of gnats and want pretty passes to keep them amused. So you get columnists like Michael Silver saying that the Ravens play boring football because we run and play defense.

I mean, half the time I wonder if the NFL didn't send a memo to officials telling them not to bother calling holding unless it's really flagrant, because it's getting ridiculous.

Word.

This defense is the only reason we ain't 0-4. Please Believe that.

[Jeremiah W]

That is why I have argued to just allow the holding that is called inconsitantly now, but eliminate all cut blocks in excahnge.

[RAVENOUS52]

That is why I have argued to just allow the holding that is called inconsitantly now, but eliminate all cut blocks in excahnge.

It's frustrating, but I think your solution may be just a tad extreme...

Maybe the should just receive better training and practice calling games instead of it being essentially a part-time job.

[Dave Lap]

*The opinions expressed in my weekly thread are mine alone, but are probably endorsed by the majority of level-headed, even-keeled Ravens fans...

HEROES:

1) Le'Ron McClain- A premium blend of shifty elusiveness and smashmouth ground & pound, he is quickly becoming my favorite Ravens back. Another week, another touchdown...

2) Ray Lewis- You are timeless and playing some of the best football I have ever seen you play...A healthy #52 is more than worth his weight in gold, even in these harsh economic times...

3) Todd Heap- Welcome back, HEEEEEAAAAPP! Hopefully yesterday's performance is a harbinger of you returning to Pro Bowl form on a more consistent basis.

4) Derrick Mason- A first down machine who I've come to admire for his sheer will to get to the ball and gain yardage afterwards. Are you sure you're 34-years-old?

5) Terrell Suggs- Nevermind the senseless roughing call of an effeminate referee, you simply harass the QB non-stop all game and cause him to make mistakes...Now if only said effiminate referee would learn to recognize and call "holding" on the O-linemen, you'd truly be unstoppable.


GOATS:

1) NFL Officiating- Dude, I don't know who you are or where you live, but when every sports highlight program unanimously agrees that your roughing call was a load of fertilizer, you may want to consider a) Stronger glasses or b) Another vocation. Overall, I'd rate the officiating of yesterdays game a D-minus

2) Matt Stover- Brother, I love you to death and for a long time you have been the primary source of offense for this team, but I'm getting pretty worried that your accuracy isn't what it once was. Notice that we've lost the past two games by a FG each time and I think you understand where I'm coming from.

3) Yamon Figurs- Since returning from your injury, you've been an indecisive basketcase. With a limited offense, we NEED you to perform up to your potential!

4) Coach Harbaugh- Another week, another overabundance of silly penalties and personal fouls. Don't even get me started on wasting timeouts in consecutive games because we can't get plays run on time...Up your game, coach...I know you have it in you...

5) Joe Flacco- Listen man, I understand better than anyone that you're a rookie, but the offense has been Dilfer-ized especially for you, so that you DON'T throw the game away with that strong arm of yours. Work on your decision making and stop randomly reverting to a Division I-AA QB, especially when coverage on our receivers is good. I'll tell you this: I'd much rather see Bazooka Joe or even The Average Joe out there than "Sloppy" Joe...

Great post. I have to disagree about Figurs though. The special teams haven't done any decent blocking for him lately. I don't think anyone short of Devin Hester could do much better with what he's had to work with.

[Dave Lap]

.

Both teams are paid to play and adjust on the fly, the Titans did a good job of adjusting their passing plays and protection schemes to buy Collins time and move the pocket to avoid the pressure on the final drive, the credit goes to them rather than it being an indictment of our defence IMO.

This is the first time I've heard anyone give credit to the Titans line and it is deserved. They did an excellent job of protecting Collins. Way better than any team we've faced this year.

[RAVENOUS52]

Great post. I have to disagree about Figurs though. The special teams haven't done any decent blocking for him lately. I don't think anyone short of Devin Hester could do much better with what he's had to work with.

You could be right, Sir!

I just think the past couple of games that he's looked jittery and uncertain back there. The feet shuffling is reminiscent of Jamal Lewis and upon catching the ball, I've noticed that he actually takes a step or two BACKWARDS...

I know he has Top 5 talent in him; We've all seen him at his best and that's damn good. He has the ability to single-handedly change the face of a Ravens game when he's "on"... I know that a bogus penalty kept him from the end zone earlier this season, but since then it's been slim pickings for Yamon.

Bottom line is we know both our overall offense and special teams units need to step up NOW.

[Jeremiah W]

This is the first time I've heard anyone give credit to the Titans line and it is deserved. They did an excellent job of protecting Collins. Way better than any team we've faced this year.

They do deserve most of the credit more than the Ravens deserve blame, but some of the holding they got away with late in the game was blatant.

Ray Lewis got flat out tackled by the C on the key pass play to Bo Scaif.

Suggs was being held when he got flagged for malice in the heart. Not the old fasioned holding either where they have you by the numbers. I feel like you deserve to be held if the grab you there, but the grabbing of the outside of the shoulder pads and rolling a guy to the ground is so blatant, I can not see how they blew that call, or how we never seem to get it. What is holding?

[RAVENOUS52]

All it proves it that one bad call can change the MOMENTUM of a game for better or worse. It may not seem important, but that blatantly incorrect roughing call totally shifted the course of the game in the Titans favor and they made the most of it.

Let's go to Indy next week, where I'm almost positive Peyton Manning will receive similar treatment. I'm calling on our offense and special teams to step up to the plate and for Coach Harbaugh to ensure we're ready to execute.