Is It Time To Trade For major Tarde OL Player

**Sports Steve** · 08-27-2006, 12:19 PM

Look we bring in a Steve McNair and the result is still the same with the OL. How do Ravens fans out there feel about maybe even it's risking our future to trade for a major OL player ( If Available) ? We do know it's late in the
pre-season but I have real concerns with the OL right now. I would like to hear your thoughts.

**Sports Steve** · 08-27-2006, 12:23 PM

Title should be: Is It Time To Trade for a Major OL Player

**BirdFan** · 08-27-2006, 12:50 PM

Sure, go after a major player. Leon Searcy worked out so well.

We may just have to be patient (though I'm having issues with that) while we grow our own.

**flraven** · 08-27-2006, 01:07 PM

Do the Ravens wait until cuts to see what shakes out? Maybe someone cut from one team because of depth could be a fit here? Its hard to say, what could the Ravens offer in exchange for a proven OL guy?

**The Fanatic** · 08-27-2006, 01:38 PM

It was time to do so a few years ago, and still counting!!

The line went down hill after we won the Superbowl and really hasn't been addressed correctly since.

When Jeff Mitchell left is when the problems started.

Letting Rabach go and retaining Flynn in that spot compounded the problem.

Now that several years of this have gone by, the problem is getting even more compounded.
Ogden is getting older and will probably only play for this year and maybe next if we're lucky.
Mulitano is no world beater out there, but in comparison to the rest he's the next highest quality lineman.
He as well is in the latter stages of his time.

Year in and year out I see other teams draft lineman in just about every round and they find their way onto the field as starters either in year one or two.

How freakin' long has Pachos been here now?

Terry is in year two now, and is servicible at best at this point.

Right now, we have I believe 5 offensive tackles on the roster, and a couple of those scrubs make pachos look li8ke a pro-bowler!!

A couple of those dudes will be cut very shortly leaving us virtually no depth at OT.

I'm telling you, the line problems will be the death of this team, in particular the tackle position.

If Ogden gets hurt, we're in really deep shit!!

Right now, I'd bring back Orlando Brown just to provide a body of servicible depth with experience.

Pretty freakin pathetic when I'm thinking we should be bringing in Orlando Brown!!

Rimph was probably our best depth at guard, and I haven't heard what the outlook is for him being able to play this year is yet.

At some point in time, heads have got to roll for the continued decision to not make quality offensive lineman a priority.
Unfortunately, I have the feeling it will be Mcnairs head rolling first followed by Bollers!!

You wanted my opinion, you got it!!

**ChrisQ** · 08-27-2006, 01:40 PM

Too late now. Any moves we were to make on that front needed to happen months ago.

Half of me would have let Ed Reed walk and spend that money on an outstanding o-line player. The other half of me of course would go 0-16 before giving up Ed Reed. I love our defense, but what good is it when we are scoring 3 pts a game and our offense gives up TDs all the time? Our QB will be getting sacked for fumbles and tossing interceptions because he's only got .005 seconds before 2 unblocked linemen bury him every other play. Its happened to both McNair and Boller.

Maybe we should play Cover 1 offense and have Ed Reed deep behind the QB to stop the fumble and interception returns

**Merlin** · 08-27-2006, 01:46 PM

So far in the preseason, we have seen the front office (Ozzie, Bisciotti, Billick and company) be consistent in its support of the o-line, contrary to what we fans saw this year and last year. We need to conclude either

1. ) The front office is seeing things that we aren't. (though I think this business about Mike Flynn being far superior to Jason Brown on the line calls is horsesh*t)

2. ) The front office is making consistent errors in their judgments that they aren't perceiving; e.g., they have a major blind spot. Since Biscotti says this organization is run like a well-run business what common business misjudgments could the Ravens be guilty of with the o-line?

1. Going after sunk costs -- The front office made a clear mistake in retrospect in keeping Flynn and getting rid of Rabach and have wasted a signing bonus on Keydrick. It is a common misjudgment to keep trying to get "your return" on those investments, even though the money is gone.

2. Misguided loyalty -- Most interviews by Billick on Flynn talk about "what a great team player he is" and references his play on the Super Bowl team of 2000. What past is past.

3. Risk aversion -- Because the "future is now" for Billick, he may be reluctant to take a risk with a younger o-line and accept some errors in the first few games in exchange for more experience by the younger players later in the team.

This is a major decision for the team. In the past, veteran teams like the Forty-Niners were very good at injecting first or second year players on the line early in the season so that they could climb the experience curve. One would hope that the Ravens would learn how to do the same. However, nothing in their behavior gives us any reason to believe that they will.

Anyone out there that can give me more reason for hope about this?

**BirdFan** · 08-27-2006, 01:51 PM

Anyone out there that can give me more reason for hope about this?

The only thing that keeps me sane on this issue is remembering those two prime time games late last season. The line was holding up for those, so I keep hoping they'll find their way back to that point soon.

**StingerNLG** · 08-27-2006, 02:23 PM

Letting Rabach go and retaining Flynn in that spot compounded the problem.

This was a mistake of Angelosian proportions. And I say this as a fan of Ozzie Newsome. But we have a history of making too many players "The highest paid "X" in the league". Heap, Lewis, Reed - all overpaid IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS (need to make sure I include that disclaimer so people don't accuse me of knocking their talents). But they really need to start paying the team AS A TEAM.

Maybe that will also help the team mentality.

**RavenTD** · 08-27-2006, 02:29 PM

I would like to see one of our NFL salary guru's come up with a list of starting O'line total salary.And see where the Ravens match up with other teams in terms of money devoted to the O'line.

I feel we have too many experiments,average joe types upfront.And if it doesn't mesh,and against a good D like the Buc's.The offense will be eaten alive.

On the otherhand if they can come together in week one,then we should be set for the season barring injuries.

**ExiledRaven** · 08-27-2006, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by RavenTD

I would like to see one of our NFL salary guru's come up with a list of starting O'line total salary.And see where the Ravens match up with other teams in terms of money devoted to the O'line.

I'm no expert, but I'll not post for a week if I am wrong. I doubt you'll find a big difference between us and most teams. I wish i still had the link but I saw the "too many teams are thinking they can get a top ten-15 offense with a barely average offensive line." And that article proceeded to, amongst other teams, call out the Cowboys and Ravens. Teams with good lines can get away with more...not to mention make good players great (larry johnson, priest holmes, tom brady, trent green, edge, marshall faulk, shaun alexander).

Fact is, we pay top dollar for Ogden, worth it 3 years ago, now? Not really. Does it matter if you have a top 3 left tackle when the right is a constant turnstyle.

We are also paying truckloads to the wrong players. Flynn got a big extension, he was a guard in 2000. Rabach flat outplayed him. Doing pretty solid in Washington too. Why didn't we just sign Rabach to be the center and move Flynn to right guard? I've always wondered about that personally.

If there is any one thing that will continue to be the downfall of this team it is continually marginal O-line play, regardless of who is playing QB or RB period. Fact is if we had invested in the OL properly, then Boller might have worked out better. Not defending or criticizing.

This all goes back to the cap purge. We had to start from scratch and the OL has never recovered. All the investments were in other positions.

You can get away with mediocre WRs or TEs if one group is great. (San Diego, KC, New England)...hell or make an offense with barely anything (Philly) adequate.

Will the help come too late? I am inclined to think so.

**B-more Ravor** · 08-27-2006, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by ExiledRaven

We are also paying truckloads to the wrong players. Flynn got a big extension, he was a guard in 2000. Rabach flat outplayed him. Doing pretty solid in Washington too. Why didn't we just sign Rabach to be the center and move Flynn to right guard? I've always wondered about that personally.

Let me first say that I am, by no means, a Mike Flynn fan - I would love to see Chester or Brown unseat him, and as soon as possible - but I still have problems every time I see comments like this. IMO, Flynn and Rabach were essentially the same player. Flynn got his deal coming off of 2003 when he played very well while Jamal ran for 2000+ yards. He got hurt in camp in 2004 - broken collarbone - and was unable to do any weight training after that. Rabach - who could not beat out Flynn or Bennie Anderson in any of the 3 prior years - took over and played well. Was Rabach's 2004 better than Flynn's 2003? Well, given the overall results of the offense, I would say not. I certainly do not believe that Rabach outplayed Flynn, by any stretch of the imagination. At worst, they were equal.

After that, the FO had to make a decision between two players who they essentially felt were the same. Flynn was already under contract, so they kept him. They felt that Flynn, with a healthy offseason, would be back to his 2003 form. Unfortunately, hindsight says otherwise, and I know that Flynn is a common target among fans, but I really can't fault them for making the decision they made, given the circumstances at the time.

As an aside, it is interesting that, as it often seems to be the case, Flynn's best year - by far - was 2003 when he was a pending FA and Rabach's best year - heck, his only good year as a Raven - was also when he was a pending FA. It's amazing (sarcasm) how much $$$$ can be a motivating factor.

**DrUnk** · 08-27-2006, 02:30 PM

Why do we need a retarded OL player?

**Art-Florida** · 08-27-2006, 02:59 PM

We need to either grit teeth, go with what we have, and hope for the best. (scary) or...

Start talking to teams about trading a quality tackle for either:
A: a player where we have depth - RB LB WR
B: a draft choice
or...

Hypnotice the staff into biting the bullet and playing Brown and Chester immediately.

We villagers are about ready to grab the torches and pitchforks.

**Greg** · 08-27-2006, 07:24 PM

Is It Time To Trade For major Tarde OL Player

I think we have too many major tards on our OL as it is.

**Mobtown** · 08-27-2006, 07:48 PM

Is It Time To Trade For major OL Player

The time has passed. But, for the sake of argument, let's hear some suggestions as to who might be available and which players might fit.

**RavinDonnie** · 08-28-2006, 06:59 PM

Hank Fraley is available..kind of late but the Eagles are willing to make trades.

**RavenFanatic2k6** · 08-27-2006, 08:01 PM

We don't really even have a backup at RT, since everything I've read has said that Terry can't play there.

Oz and Co. would do well to look hard at the cuts and try to find someone servicable, and if they can't do that, as a last resort sign someone like Brooks or Brown.

**B-more Ravor** · 08-27-2006, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by RavenFanatic2k6

We don't really even have a backup at RT, since everything I've read has said that Terry can't play there.

Well, this brings up something I've been saying for about a month now - this team doesn't have enough depth at OT. Before Rimpf was injured, it looked like they would end up with 3 OTs and 6 interior OLmen making the roster. That's not a good balance and they usually carry 4 OTs. I had speculated that perhaps Kracalik or Droege might have a shot at making the team since they would IMO prefer to carry 4 OTs going into the season. Then, the first preseason game was played and the idea that Kracalik or Droege would make the team became laughable.

Now, with Rimpf likely headed toward IR, I've got to think that they will make some move to bring in an OT who is worthy of making the roster, but I highly doubt that they will end up getting anyone who will be able to contribute unless forced into action (God-forbide) because of injury.

**ravensfan86** · 08-27-2006, 09:58 PM

I fear we are married to this line as it is. No one of value will come available to be of help any more then the 3 future players: Terry, Brown, Chester. There is a timing issue of Chester and Brown not quite ready for prime time. Although I expect both will play this season and I hope Chester can at some point, unseat Flynn.

B-Ravor:

I see it a little differently. Flynn and Rabach are completely different players today and that is the job of the front office. They have to project during the term of the contract the type of player they have. Rabach is a better player then Flynn today. He is able to get to the second level and make affective blocks. At times it appears that flynn thinks his only assignment is to snap the ball. But when ever DT's like Pat Williams sqaures off against flynn, he is pushed back off the ball and many times into the QB, on running plays! To me both Brown and Chester are better at standing up their man as part of their assignment. Maybe Rabach isn't a world beater but he rarely is blocked into his QB on a running play!

I think Eric Decosta's comments right after the draft about "losing in the trenches" on both sides of the ball was something that needed to be addressed. That is why Ngata was drafted and he mentioned that was needed on the offensive side as well.