Is It Time To Trade For major Tarde OL Player

**ravensfan86** · 08-27-2006, 09:58 PM

I fear we are married to this line as it is. No one of value will come available to be of help any more then the 3 future players: Terry, Brown, Chester. There is a timing issue of Chester and Brown not quite ready for prime time. Although I expect both will play this season and I hope Chester can at some point, unseat Flynn.

B-Ravor:

I see it a little differently. Flynn and Rabach are completely different players today and that is the job of the front office. They have to project during the term of the contract the type of player they have. Rabach is a better player then Flynn today. He is able to get to the second level and make affective blocks. At times it appears that flynn thinks his only assignment is to snap the ball. But when ever DT's like Pat Williams sqaures off against flynn, he is pushed back off the ball and many times into the QB, on running plays! To me both Brown and Chester are better at standing up their man as part of their assignment. Maybe Rabach isn't a world beater but he rarely is blocked into his QB on a running play!

I think Eric Decosta's comments right after the draft about "losing in the trenches" on both sides of the ball was something that needed to be addressed. That is why Ngata was drafted and he mentioned that was needed on the offensive side as well.

**B-more Ravor** · 08-27-2006, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by ravensfan86

I see it a little differently. Flynn and Rabach are completely different players today and that is the job of the front office. They have to project during the term of the contract the type of player they have. Rabach is a better player then Flynn today. He is able to get to the second level and make affective blocks.

Well, when they signed Flynn to his deal, he was the better player and it looked like he was really coming into his own at the C position. And, most importantly, at that point, Rabach had hardly seen the field having been unable to supplant Flynn or Benny Anderson. I really don't think anyone would have thought that one year later the team would be faced with a decision regarding keeping him or letting him go. He really was bad - really bad - when he got the chance to play during his first 3 years here.

So, once he did play in 2004 and play as he did, it really didn't matter because the Ravens decision was already made - the money had been investing in Flynn.

Now, if you want to say they should have seen it coming, well, I just can't see how they could have based on how underwhelming Rabach's play was during his first 3 years here. That, IMO, would be hindsight talking. Had he then been Flynn's equal (or close enough), I have no doubt the team probably would have let Flynn go and stuck with Rabach since he was younger, and at least at that point, cheaper. But, the simple fact of the matter was that Rabach, as a 3rd round pick, was basically a bust during those 1st 3 years.

**RavenTD** · 08-28-2006, 04:28 AM

I do believe we Raven fans should have this motto.

Friend asks,"Looks like you have a gray hair."

Reply,"It's the O'line stupid."

Its not like we are not prepared for what a bad O'line looks like.Its watching
the effects of what a bad O'line brings for another season .

**Kaven** · 08-28-2006, 08:57 AM

The front office obviously felt comfortable with the lineman we have. It won't take long to see if they were right.

**purplepoe** · 08-28-2006, 09:08 AM

My major problem is this.

Take a look around the league at some other teams offensive lines. You'll see rookies and 2nd year players starting and contributing. Why hasn't/isn't that happening with the Ravens? Are we not drafting well? Is it the coaching? What gives?

We trade up to get a guy like Terry and like Fanatic said, he's barely serviceable now. Same goes with Brown.

Im telling you, something is screwed up big time.

It's pretty obvious that the coaching staff is very loyal to the veterans and that isn't helping either. Seems like they aren't willing to go through a few growing pains with the young guys. But if they dont' do that, then the young guys are just gonna ride the bench and never cut their teeth with legitmate live action. And we're left with wondering why we have to watch Flynn year in and year out.

Whatever it is, it's almost laughable that we're sitting here less than 2 weeks before the 2006 season and STILL talking about this issue.

PP

**ExiledRaven** · 08-28-2006, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by purplepoe

It's pretty obvious that the coaching staff is very loyal to the veterans and that isn't helping either.

Cowher was criticized for the exact same thing following that miserable Steelers season.

Billick has always been loyal to a fault. I don't think that's going to change.
Also, we've got a great

Oline coach that got FIRED in Miami.

Defensive guys keep getting hired away and most of the same offensive people were around until the owner stepped in and said "this person needs to go".

Where is the accountability for poor coaching on this team?

**DrUnk** · 08-28-2006, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by ExiledRaven

Billick has always been loyal to a fault. I don't think that's going to change.

I agree, but (and I know PP will enjoy this), on the news the other night (can't remember which channel), he threw Mason under the bus, for running a missed route on the INT to Smoot. However, he can't admit that he F'd up on the running play before the half, in the previous game.

P.S.-not trying to hijack, just an observation.

**AZRAVEN** · 08-28-2006, 11:48 AM

To me the only thing that has changed is that we can no longer blame it all on the quarterback for making the line look bad. We are forced to accept that the OL does, indeed, SUCK!
Our line has sucked for years to me it seems like just a philosophical disconnect.. Oz and the boys think any fat guy can be a successful OL and so they place no particular value on looking for top tier people. I also think our OL coaching sucks, these guys never seem to develop. As someone else posted, other teams bring along guys by their second year, by the second year most of our OL draftees have barely seen the field.. WHY??
I really blame Ozzie for this mess and hope he is held accountable if the season doesn't go well.

**52decleetzu** · 08-28-2006, 12:03 PM

Interesting article about David Carr I just read.Sound Familiar?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/4145078.html

**ravensfan86** · 08-28-2006, 12:06 PM

I have to say that Ozzie's track record for the draft is legandary. To draft two HOF players in the same draft, in the same round is incredible. I like the way Ozzie operates and I respect him. That being said, they spent countless hours eveluating the season last year before they made any decisions. The group (Biscotti, Ozzie, Eric, Brian) came to a concensus that we could win with this offensive line. It's hard to imagine that Ozzie would lay his name on the line for that group. Other then JO, they are fairly plain and ordinary.

It is obvious that if the Ravens cannot run the ball effectively on the road they become very predictable and as it seems quite easy to defend. McNair will not last 5 games in if the oline plays as they did in Minn. Also the oline coach and Billick should be teaching them how to fire off the ball in unison without hearing the snap count and working as one. I was starting to trust Foerster somewhat after the iggles game. Now I am again not very confident in his coaching ability. This is the NFL. Games on the road in a hostile environment are pretty common. Its coaching and talent level.

If the FO and Billick were content with this group then we should see coaching make up for lack of talent to a degree. I haven't seen it.

We are not a good football team on the road. Especially falling behind in the score. We are not built to become pass happy and protect the QB. I still have trouble believing Ozzie would lay his reputation on this offensive line. It is out there for all to see.

**Mobtown** · 08-28-2006, 12:28 PM

I agree, but (and I know PP will enjoy this), on the news the other night (can't remember which channel), he threw Mason under the bus, for running a missed route on the INT to Smoot. However, he can't admit that he F'd up on the running play before the half, in the previous game.

Actually, that was Clayton who screwed up that route.

You guys should all know by now that Bilick will never admit anything to the press.

**BaltimoreRon** · 08-28-2006, 01:00 PM

Some might argue that some of our OL players (especially on the right side) ARE major tardes.

**Losac** · 08-28-2006, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by BaltimoreRon

Some might argue that some of our OL players (especially on the right side) ARE major tardes.

**RavinDonnie** · 08-28-2006, 06:59 PM

Hank Fraley is available..kind of late but the Eagles are willing to make trades.

**BTP Raven** · 08-28-2006, 07:05 PM

Jacksonville just lost Greg Jones for the season and Fred Taylor hasn't been durable in years. We've worked friendly deals with Jack Del Rio before. Maybe give up some running back depth for a decent tackle? They might be able to spare Kalif Barnes (dreaming and coming off an injury), Stockar McDougle or Mike Williams for top RB backup?

I'd love to keep the RB depth but feel strongly that it will be wasted unless we add another quality/half-decent OT to at least improve our depth if not bump Pashos to a backup where he belongs.

**BTP Raven** · 08-28-2006, 07:05 PM

Anyone else surprised at the number trades other teams are pulling off so close to the season? I hope this trend continues because it could be really good for the league.

**Raineman** · 08-28-2006, 07:52 PM

A lot has been said about our future O-lineman, which begs the question....Is Billick, being under the gun, mortgaging our future because of a must win mentality?

The O-line will be the last and final piece that Billick has not handled properly and, in so doing, will expose him for what he really is. Unfortunately at the expense of our future.

Keep in mind that I am not trying to play "negative Nelly" here. The "buck" has to start and end somewhere. Can you suggest another courtyard?

**B-more Ravor** · 08-28-2006, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Raineman

A lot has been said about our future O-lineman, which begs the question....Is Billick, being under the gun, mortgaging our future because of a must win mentality?

The O-line will be the last and final piece that Billick has not handled properly and, in so doing, will expose him for what he really is. Unfortunately at the expense of our future.

Keep in mind that I am not trying to play "negative Nelly" here. The "buck" has to start and end somewhere. Can you suggest another courtyard?

Well, how about the GM - the one who actually acquires the talent (or non-talents) on the OL?

And, how is Billick mortgaging our future? Just because he isn't playing young guys right now? Umm, most of those guys who aren't playing - Terry, Brown, Chester - will be here for at least 3 more years, so regardless of what happens this year, they are still the future. The bottom line is that if Billick, and the coaching staff, thought they could help now, they would play them - after all, having the best players playing gives the team its best chance to win, which would be Billick's best chance of keeping his job, right?

**RavinDonnie** · 08-28-2006, 08:04 PM

Since Billick is not the GM I would say know. Ozzie Newsome has ignored the line for years. In case people forget, the line sucked with Mitchell and Rabach and every other bargain rate scrub Ozzie has brought in the last 8 years.
How long did he ignore the wr adn qb position?

**Raineman** · 08-28-2006, 08:24 PM

Another courtyard has been suggested, and I never made Oz or Steve B. exempt in this either. They have given the players to BB. He is the one that chooses how to use them. If he is wrong, it is on him. But he chooses to be wrong (if that is the case) at the expense of our future by not getting valuable playing time and him actually expecting a different result with the same tools.

Once again BRavor- Nobody is exempt here. But someone has to take on the oneness, and Brian just seems to be the same "unscolded" self that he is. Excuse the analogy, but he could fast become the "T.O. of coaches" by giving us the same product with a different cover.

There was no secret that the O-line was the first and foremost priority that needed to be addressed this offseason. This was the consensus around most of the football genre. Yet it remains the most stagnant part of our team. Yes, it has been addressed, but with players that all need development (even in their second year) and not ones that can make an immediate impact. Draft was not an option. It was spent on D-line (which I agree was needed-as far as Ray was concerned) and our inability to acquire impacting free agents where needed the most (Yes, I went there) was exposed.

As Forrest Gump said, Thats all I have to say about that.