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  1. #1
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    The Titans got 2 plays in their favor!!



    Hmmmmm.......where are the crying Titans fans now? I've got to be honest I missed the possible 'safety' call, so I can't make a comment about this......

    Lost in the aftermath of Saturday’s Ravens-Titans game are two mistakes — one questionable, one obvious — that fueled a second-quarter Tennessee drive, and that possibly saved the Titans from a safety.

    (Several readers have pointed this issue out to us over the past couple of days, but we didn’t have time to study the issue properly until this morning, and we didn’t want to go off half-cocked . . . like we usually do.)

    Facing second and nine from their own two, the Titans’ first stroke of luck came after Terrell Suggs of the Ravens blasted through the line and hit running back Chris Johnson in the end zone.

    Via the official PFT TiVo service (we could put those ads in a rotation with the Lucky Charms banner), it appears that the ball was not completely out of the end zone at the moment Johnson’s knee hit the ground.



    But the CBS announcing crew never even mentioned the possibility that the play should have been ruled a safety, and Ravens coach John Harbaugh didn’t challenge it.

    The Titans converted a first down on that drive, thanks to Ahmard Hall’s catch and run that was capped with a vicious hit from Ray Lewis.

    On the next drive, a first-down run from Chris Johnson ended in a penalty against the Titans. And referee Terry McAulay was clear: “After the play, personal foul, unnecessary roughness, offense number 76. Forearm to the head. Half the distance to the goal. Second down. The down counts.”

    The only problem? On the next play, the down marker still showed a “1″.

    On “first” down, Johnson gained nine yards, giving the Titans “second” (i.e., third) down and three. On “second” (i.e., third) down, LenDale White was bottled up for no gain. Then on “third” (i.e., fourth) down, quarterback Kerry Collins found Justin Gage for a first down.

    As Dan Dierdorf of CBS said after the play, “If this drive results in no points whatsoever, it is already an outstanding drive for Tennessee.”

    It was not an outstanding drive for Dierdorf or Greg Gumbel, who missed not only the potential safety but also the extra down that the Titans received.

    The drive ultimately ended in an interception inside the Ravens’ 10. But the drive should have ended just as it was starting with two points to Baltimore and a free kick, or a punt from deep in the Titans’ own end of the field.

    The fact that the Ravens won the game makes the errors less consequential, but errors indeed they were.

    And, at a minimum, the mistakes help to balance out the perception that the Ravens were handed the game via the failure of the officials to call a delay of game penalty that would have wiped out a key gain during the game-winning drive.
    http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/...an-extra-down/
    Last edited by 4G63; 01-12-2009 at 10:10 AM.




  2. #2
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    Re: The Titans got 2 plays in their favor!!

    WOW thanks for pointing this out... Get G7 to post this on the TITANS board..




  3. #3
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    Re: The Titans got 2 plays in their favor!!

    Is Suggs in contact with the ball carrier when the knee hits the floor? Does that make a difference?




  4. #4
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    Re: The Titans got 2 plays in their favor!!

    Quote Originally Posted by UKRaven View Post
    Is Suggs in contact with the ball carrier when the knee hits the floor? Does that make a difference?
    As long as some Raven touched him and caused him to go down, its doesn't matter whether they are still in contact when he goes down.




  5. #5

    Re: The Titans got 2 plays in their favor!!

    My understanding of the rules is that if the ball is dead on or behind the goal line then it is a safety - i.e. unlike a TD where any part of the ball crossing the plane of the goal line is sufficient - the entire ball must go past the plane of the goal line into the field of play - in this case it looks like the player's knee was down and ball was on the goal so assuming the angle presents a true picture than it is a safety.

    - as to the extra down - my understanding was that the penalty was called prior to the play being called dead (unfortunately I can't remember where I read it, sorry) so it was not a dead ball foul.




  6. #6
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    Re: The Titans got 2 plays in their favor!!

    On the next drive, a first-down run from Chris Johnson ended in a penalty against the Titans. And referee Terry McAulay was clear: “After the play, personal foul, unnecessary roughness, offense number 76. Forearm to the head. Half the distance to the goal. Second down. The down counts.”

    The only problem? On the next play, the down marker still showed a “1″.


    In watching this on DVR, after this play they showed Fisher reacting on the sideline. They then went to the replay and dierdorf was saying "they were trying to bend him backwards. In the background of the game PA, the ref states "correction, the foul happened during the play, repeat 1st down.

    The Titans did not get an extra first down...

    Safety should have been called though!!




  7. #7
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    Re: The Titans got 2 plays in their favor!!

    All the Titans fans can talk about is the play clock dipping to zero.

    There was a lot more to their loss than that. Can they say 3 turnovers VS none for Ravens????




  8. #8
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    Re: The Titans got 2 plays in their favor!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenDavey View Post
    On the next drive, a first-down run from Chris Johnson ended in a penalty against the Titans. And referee Terry McAulay was clear: “After the play, personal foul, unnecessary roughness, offense number 76. Forearm to the head. Half the distance to the goal. Second down. The down counts.”

    The only problem? On the next play, the down marker still showed a “1″.


    In watching this on DVR, after this play they showed Fisher reacting on the sideline. They then went to the replay and dierdorf was saying "they were trying to bend him backwards. In the background of the game PA, the ref states "correction, the foul happened during the play, repeat 1st down.

    The Titans did not get an extra first down...

    Safety should have been called though!!
    Also just to add to this reference of an extra down which did not happen. They spotted the ball half the distance from the end of the play at the 19, and not from the original line of scrimmage at the 12. Since the foul was corrected to say it happened during the play, the run by CJ should not have counted and we would have had them back to the 6 yd line again!!! Go ahead and subtract those numbers from the stats too....

    We beat them by playing hard, forcing turnovers, and scoring more points at :00!!!!!




  9. #9

    Re: The Titans got 2 plays in their favor!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    Hmmmmm.......where are the crying Titans fans now? I've got to be honest I missed the possible 'safety' call, so I can't make a comment about this......



    http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/...an-extra-down/
    I'm glad someone posted this, because I thought it was a safety immediately! I even said to my friend on the phone at the time that I thought so and he was like "hell no." I was without tivo at the time so couldnt review it and subsequently forgot about it with us winning anyway. Bravo to whoever wrote that gem!
    "Sorry officer, nothing wrong here. I'm just watching the Ravens game!"




  10. #10

    Re: The Titans got 2 plays in their favor!!

    [QUOTE=RavenDavey;123824]On the next drive, a first-down run from Chris Johnson ended in a penalty against the Titans. And referee Terry McAulay was clear: “After the play, personal foul, unnecessary roughness, offense number 76. Forearm to the head. Half the distance to the goal. Second down. The down counts.”

    The only problem? On the next play, the down marker still showed a “1″.


    In watching this on DVR, after this play they showed Fisher reacting on the sideline. They then went to the replay and dierdorf was saying "they were trying to bend him backwards. In the background of the game PA, the ref states "correction, the foul happened during the play, repeat 1st down.

    The Titans did not get an extra first down...
    ******************************************************************
    Yes, BUT.... if the foul occured during the play, the "half the distance to the goal" should have been measured from the former LOS, not the end of the play.. That would have resulted in the ball being 3-1/2 yards closer to the end zone..... The ensuing outcome could have been very different!!!
    OOPs someone already pointed this out! Sorry!




  11. #11
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    Re: The Titans got 2 plays in their favor!!

    I've been looking at the NFL rules for a safety on their rules digest:

    http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/safety2

    Safety

    1. The important factor in a safety is impetus. Two points are scored for the opposing team when the ball is dead on or behind a team’s own goal line if the impetus came from a player on that team.

    Examples of Safety:

    (a) Blocked punt goes out of kicking team’s end zone. Impetus was provided by punting team. The block only changes direction of ball, not impetus.

    (b) Ball carrier retreats from field of play into his own end zone and is downed. Ball carrier provides impetus.

    (c) Offensive team commits a foul and spot of enforcement is behind its own goal line.

    (d) Player on receiving team muffs punt and, trying to get ball, forces or illegally kicks (creating new impetus) it into end zone where it goes out of the end zone or is recovered by a member of the receiving team in the end zone.
    Well it's a pretty crummy explanation. A bunch of people on that PFT link are stating that the ball only has to be partly out to escape being a safety, in which case it isn't a safety. But I don't know. Would be nice is Pereira cleared it up, but I bet he won't even mention it.

    Edit: Apparently:

    Rule 7, Section 1, Article 2, Note: A ball in the end zone which is carried toward the field of play is still in touch. It is a safety or touchback if any part of the ball is on, above, or behind the goal line (plane) when dead. In such a case, the ball must be entirely in the field of play in order not to be in touch.
    So it IS a safety.




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