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  1. #13

    Re: Putin warns US about Socialism.



    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    Is it? name them? better yet, name a policy that the administration has put through that would qualify as a fascist policy?

    Did you see all of the tea baggers when they were asked if they thought Obama was Fascist?

    Never once did one of the baggers support the notion that he is a fascist. There only reply was "because he is!" "its obvious" In other words, levin told me he was, Rush told he was, Mike Church told me he was, Hannity told me is was.

    Someone told that person how to think.

    So be the first to document actual evidence that Obama is a fascist.

    You edited my post where I placed them? I didn't sya he was a fascist, I said he had fascist traits. He is very UNI=partisan, and intollerant of other viewpoints.




  2. #14
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    Re: Putin warns US about Socialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    We feel the smae freaking way bro. How many times have I asked you to pick up a HISTORY book and tell me when Socialism, mass defecit spending, or anythign like what we are heading into has EVER worked, EVER.
    education, health care, roads highways, social security, education, etc etc etc.

    i don't need to pick up a history book.








  3. #15

    Re: Putin warns US about Socialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rochardrik View Post
    No oversight....isn't that what just caused the stock market collapse?
    Mass corruption....Isn't that what just caused the stock market collapse?... in part , at least? not to mention the periods of our country being run by Boss Tweed, etc, etc, etc. Talk about mass corruption... with the little guy paying the bill, serving as slaves to the Carnegies and Gettys, et al?

    Mass Po
    verty.... as opposed to all wealth being controlled by 1% of the population?
    All the points you have made reflect the world we now live in... a product of uncontrolled capitalism. You understand so little, evidently just what your agenda driven rightwingnuts tell you, that you can't define and identify just what is, and isn't socialism, or what is, and what isn't a good form of socialism.
    The real problem with failed socialist experiments, or whatever you call them is that the people who instituted them had only one goal, and it had nothing to do with the welfare of the "people". Those social environments that have worked.. Finland for one... have succeded because the stated goal WAS the actual goal... improve the lot of the general public.
    The words "endowed with certain unalienable rights, Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" do not preclude social aspects. As a matter of fact, our capitalistic society prohibits, yea, prevents this from being a reality. Wouldn't availability to free education through graduate school make this pesky "pursuit of happiness" thing a real possibility? Health insurance is already a form of socialism... whay not make it available to ALL? Let's say you and I buy health insurance of the same coverage at the same age, and pay the same premiums. You get sick and have hundreds of thousands of $ of bills paid. I remain healthy and do not require any hospitilization, or treatment, or medicine? MY PREMIUMS are paying for your illness. F..k you! I'm not paying for your health care!!!!! That's socialism!!!!! Aha, but that is how it works!! and that's a good thing! Now, how about taking it a step further and cover the person without a job who is sick, who, because of having been treated goes on to be the next brilliant surgeon who saves your life down the road?
    You think it's bad now? When people are beholden to profit? Wait until it's all someone else's moeny. If we are a socialist nation the wealth goes from the top 1% to a handful of people. The expendable income availabel to all of us in our everyday lives would disappear.
    No the real problem with socialism is Human beings. It's not the human beings that have tried it before, it is human nature. It will ALWAYS fail as a concept as humans are prone to laziness and greed. It works great with ants, btu they don't really have that whole free will thing. You will never get a large group of humans to work cooperatively for the greater good as hard as they will for personal gain.

    I don't have health insurance for that very reason. When I will be using my share or more of the budget I will attain it at that point.




  4. #16

    Re: Putin warns US about Socialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    education, health care, roads highways, social security, education, etc etc etc.

    i don't need to pick up a history book.
    Public Education in the US, huge success there...
    Health care, been there done that, had that argument, the best healthcare in the world is available right arond the corner from us.
    Social Security is the biggest failure in the entire government. Private industry performs similar type services 10 times as efficiently, on average.

    You listed basically every portion of the government that needs lots of work.

    Name me a fully socialistic society that has succeeded for a long time.




  5. #17
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    Re: Putin warns US about Socialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Public Education in the US, huge success there...
    Health care, been there done that, had that argument, the best healthcare in the world is available right arond the corner from us.
    Social Security is the biggest failure in the entire government. Private industry performs similar type services 10 times as efficiently, on average.

    You listed basically every portion of the government that needs lots of work.

    Name me a fully socialistic society that has succeeded for a long time.
    social security is not a failure. many people out there are retired on their savings and s.s. combined. 401k's are more of a failure right now than s.s. as 401k's disappear more will rely on s.s.

    no one is suggesting that the u.s. will become a "fully socialistic society". you are taking an argument for socialized elements of society to an absurd extreme to diminish it's utility. there is no such thing as a fully socialistic society as there is no such thing as a fully capitalist society. Obama is neither a socialist nor wanting a fully socialist society.

    the ironic thing is that the people on this board that argue the most about the benefits of socialism are myself and Roch. We are self-employed...we have our own businesses...we are truly entreprenuers. we create our own wealth and we understand the benefits of forms of socialism.

    the conservatives on this board, from what I have gathered, have been government employees and/or employed by others. you really don't have real world experiences depending fully on yourself to pay your way through the world.

    Roch and I are liberals, believe in the benefits of socialized programs and add independently to the wealth of this country through our own businesses. Its not like we are sitting back taking hand outs...We are the wealth generators that you conservatives are so adamantly defending as truly American.

    isn't it ironic...








  6. #18

    Re: Putin warns US about Socialism.

    Hmmm you should not have guessed. You were wrong again like normal.
    I currently own my own business. Have in the past, will in the future. My family's wealth was created by my Father's business. I worked for people for a few years to gain real life experience.




  7. #19
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    Re: Putin warns US about Socialism.

    [QUOTE=TRAP;141733]
    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post


    But he knew enough to kick your ass in here and even shut you up for a while.

    Once again, even in here Galen says nothing. He cant even run good smack

    Go to Perez Hilton's blog Galen. Its gay.
    Trap you are seriously delusional!








  8. #20

    Re: Putin warns US about Socialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Public Education in the US, huge success there...
    Health care, been there done that, had that argument, the best healthcare in the world is available right arond the corner from us.
    Social Security is the biggest failure in the entire government. Private industry performs similar type services 10 times as efficiently, on average.

    You listed basically every portion of the government that needs lots of work.

    Name me a fully socialistic society that has succeeded for a long time.
    Private sector health care, in this country is the exact opposite of efficiency. Outdated modes of recordkeeping, and non health educated people telling doctors what methods by which to treat patients. Spending millions of dollars to create delightful sounding names to medicine... Viagra people spent hundreds of millions just to come up with a name that would be attractive to the general public, at the same time driving up the price. So, something that costs fitty cents to make costs 5 bucks a pop. That's efficient? Some things are just different. If I can afford to buy a canoe to recreate in, then I buy a canoe. If someone else can afford to buy a yacht to recreate in, so be it.. Some things SHOULD be commensurate to our rate of earnings, but basic health care, and education should not. Our future is our people, and the future gets a little dimmer if only the wealthy survive, and become educated.
    Intelligence, genius, is not partial, nor bigoted. It appears in the rich and the poor, and should be harvested from all.
    Social Security is NOT the biggest failure of this country(Granted, it needs improvement, because time have changed). It was created in a time when ONLY the wealthy had ANY provision for retirement, the working people were just shit out of luck.. The Getty's and the Rockefellers were using them as slaves, 16 hour days, unworkable conditions, and slave wages.. They were barely able to feed themselves, much less save for retirement, and the responsibility fell on our gov't to care for them. It was a good idea, and worked splendidly, but it has become outdated.... At least it is not affected by the greed of the stockmarket players. I, for one, am tired of insurance companies running the world, making all the rules. If you really have your own business, you understand that point, at least.
    I employ over 100 people, and every year we are shopping our insurance coverage, every year our premiums take astronomical jumps, every year we must cut to make insurance affordable for our employees, while trying to stay competitive in our field, every year we must make decisions about whether to terminate an employee because a pre-existing condition makes the rates for everyone double. Where is the fairness in that?




  9. #21

    Re: Putin warns US about Socialism.

    Things will be even worse when a non-health educated person also now has a quota list to decide how to work on you...

    Tort reform is the single biggest barrier to efficiency in our health system.

    How are you going to enjoy it when none of us have the choice of whether to buy a canoe or a yacht becuase we are wondering when we can afford to have beef for our family instead of the normal chicken.

    Even after the stock market crash 401k's are no worse off then SSI. SSI is more then half(income) overhead, less then half payout. I good 401k has an administration in the range of a percent, OF EARNINGS.


    You will have the same problems tenfold if the government gets involved in healthcare, instead of shopping around however, you'll simply be forced to take what is offerred as there will be no choices. The costs will continue to increase astronomically.




  10. #22

    Re: Putin warns US about Socialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Things will be even worse when a non-health educated person also now has a quota list to decide how to work on you...

    Tort reform is the single biggest barrier to efficiency in our health system.

    How are you going to enjoy it when none of us have the choice of whether to buy a canoe or a yacht becuase we are wondering when we can afford to have beef for our family instead of the normal chicken.

    Even after the stock market crash 401k's are no worse off then SSI. SSI is more then half(income) overhead, less then half payout. I good 401k has an administration in the range of a percent, OF EARNINGS.


    You will have the same problems tenfold if the government gets involved in healthcare, instead of shopping around however, you'll simply be forced to take what is offerred as there will be no choices. The costs will continue to increase astronomically.
    Yes, I said that SS was outdated, and should be re-thought. However, I have lost over half of my retirement account in the last 4 months.. At least I still have my regular SS benefits intact.




  11. #23

    Re: Putin warns US about Socialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rochardrik View Post
    Yes, I said that SS was outdated, and should be re-thought. However, I have lost over half of my retirement account in the last 4 months.. At least I still have my regular SS benefits intact.
    But what you are not thinking about, is that if SSI was run as efficiently as your 401k, your benefits would be SEVERAL times higher. Less then half the money collected by SSI goes into receipients hands. Fewer then 3% from 401k's go into administration fees.




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