Things needed to fix defense

[Raveninwoodlawn]

This is a general overview of problems I see with this defense and what needs to be done to correct the problems. Many of these moves cannot be made until the offseason obviously, but they need to be done in order to get the balance we have been wanting for so long.

1. IMHO...even moreso than another CB, we NEED another outside pass rusher.Since AD left, we have had no-one that threatens the outside other than Suggs. Speaking of Suggs, while he is a legit pass rush guy, he isn't in the elite class and gets totally shut out when he goes up against quality LT's. If he gets shut out, there goes our pass rush.

I think the team is pretty much playing McClain out of position when he can help at a spot that we are desperately in need. We don't need more ILB's, we need some pass rushers and McClain showed some promise there last year. Also, if Barnes isn't going to rush the QB, he is pretty much worthless. He apparently is in the doghouse once again this year and has been a big disappointment.

We aren't going to get anybody else this year though so that will have to be a priority during the draft...fortunately there are a lot of pass rushers out there next year. Unfortunately, maybe since we are going to a 4-3, many won't fit that type of defense.

I think that should be priority as nothing helps a secondary like a pass rush. As the saying goes, you could have 4 Deion Sanders' back there, but if you give the opposing QB 5 seconds, nobody can cover that long. I look at Denver this year...they had Champ Bailey and Dre Bly as their CB's with no pass rush. They struggled terribly. They moved Dumervil to a spot where he can excel and put pressure on the QB and suddenly, Denver is the best defense in football. Pitt has a guy William Gay and Ike Taylor as their CB's...not elite guys. But that pass rush shuts down offenses. We were at our best when we got after the QB...many times without having to bring the house.

I also think forcing the 4-3 when we don't have the personel is contributing to this mess as well, but I'll get to Mattison later.

2. The CB situation. We obviously have problems here and this is one instance where I think we can make some moves.

First the starters. I think Foxworth is taking the worse beating between himself and Washington, although I think Fox has played siginificantly better. Not elite by any stretch, but capable. He was overpaid and it was a questionable signing IMHO for a guy who was never a regular starter, and he has size/matchup problems that will never go away, but I think you can win with him at one spot if he has help from the front 4. I think him getting the brunt of the CB criticism from some is based on him getting that big contract.

Washington, I think, is the guy that has lost confidence. Preston keeps mentioning Fox as the guy with confidence issues, but the next aggressive play Washington makes this year will be his first. He is playing way off of guys...whether they are big TE's (Gates), journeyman WR's (Mark Bradley), or elite WR's (Chad Johnson). He hasn't been aggresively closing on the ball and we all know he has terrible hands. And he also is a matchup problem guy as he is small and soft when it comes to tackling or jump balls. I think the biggest red flag for me was him saying after the Minny game that he "agreed" with him getting benched. What? I don't care how bad you are playing, if you have your confidence and the short memory CB's need to have, you don't agree with getting benched...for Frank Walker. I remember after McAlister got destroyed by the Colts last year...he was furious that he was benched. I know he didn't have the best relationship with Harbs, but that is the fighting attitude you want from your starting CB. If you don't want to rock the boat, maybe you have a "no comment" or "that was the coach's decision, and I'll play so well next time he won't feel he wants/needs to make that move".

Carr has been pretty worthless and needs to be gone next year.

Walker had stretches like this last year and then played well down the stretch so I'm willing to give him the benifit of the doubt here.

But Webb HAS to get on the field. Honestly, since Washington thinks it's ok to get benched, I'd almost put Webb in there to take his spot and make Fabien the nickle guy...maybe that will help as Webb I think is CLEARLY the most physical CB we have other than Walker who can't cover right now without grabbing.

As for next year, the draft offerings for CB are about average. I think we should grab one though obviously with one of our first 2 or 3 picks.

3. The safeties. Oh Boy. Landry has been roasted on the field and on these boards and I tried to defend him to a degree, but you can't ignore what you are seeing. I think he is better than this, but like many have suggested, maybe the rust and injury are just too much for him right now. Pass defense has never been his strongsuit, but you can't have plays like the 2nd TD pass to Shiancoe where he is just staring at him about 5 yards away, or the pass to Rice over the middle in the first quarter where he was literally right under him at about the 5 yard line and never turned around when the pass basically went right over his head.

Reed is Reed. I don't know what to say about him...he is going to freelance...that's just Ed. He studies a hell of a lot of film and goes off of what he see's and a lot of times he is right. He is also going to wind up leaving CB's on islands that they aren't supposed to be on (the bomb to Rice at the end of the game). He likely got away with a lot of it when we had McAlister and Rolle (even Baxter) back there, but he is obviously not going to have the same luxury with this group. I think he needs to cut back on the freelancing until we get some CB's in here that can hold up in single coverage. But it's tough to really be hard on a guy who is going to the HOF.

Personally, I don't think Zibs has any real starting potential and Haruki isn't a sure bet either to be better than Landry. I guess you can give Haruki a shot, but I don't think it will be a sure thing that he is better. Leonhard is a guy who I think is getting way too much credit for being a "playmaker", but his steady, consistant play surely is missed at this point.

I don't know what to do for safety...we just invested a couple of picks in them (one a high pick...a 3rd) so I don't know if they rush back in to spend another high pick on one. May have to just make due with the 4 we have.

4. I am not a Mattison fan. I know it's early and I know bitching about it will not make any difference as Harbs loves him, but I'm just not seeing it. I know Harbs father is good friends with him and served on his staffs (along with Harbs himself), but that shouldn't be enough to vault him over the top here. I think he is forcing the 4-3 here when it doesn't have the personell...especially when it comes to passing downs...to run it. I really have no idea what scheme he is running...it seems like a big mix of cover 3 and cover 2. Cover 2 doesn't really work unless you have a good pass rush and Cover 3 requires solid CB play with an aware, disciplined safety...and we are pretty lacking in most of those requirements.

I'm pretty pissed/annoyed that we didn't even interview Gregg Williams or another guy who had some experience running an aggressive NFL defense like Mike Nolan or Dom Capers or someone like that.

I'll have more on my thoughts on the interior DL and LB's later. What are your thoughts?

[psuasskicker]

There's no quick fix for this except one thing. Gap discipline. We get guys playing more disciplined and stop giving up the big plays, we'll be fine defensively. That's what we need more than anything else, and it is absolutely correctable right now.

- C -

[Jeremiah W]

I was expecting the return of Gregg and Landry to off set the loss of Scott and Leonard, and it has not.

Gregg had a decent start to the year, but recently has looked like less than an average DT who has been getting manhandled by double teams, and single blocked and sealed. When they put #91 in for him, the DL stopped getting blown off the ball. Mckinney took on the double team like a NT in the 3-4 has got to do, and allow the rest of the front 5 on D to work 1 on 1 or vs a TE double with outside leverage.

Pryce still looks lke he has it to me, but is getting held like crazy, and not getting pressures in the second half of games. I think Edwards should be in there for him on 1st and 2nd down a lot and never in on 3rd down.

I like how the Ravens have been getting after the QB in spurts, but it does not seem like our blitz concepts are confusing anyone but our coverage units.

The DC has got to come up with something. It is pretty much the same talent base that Rex was working with, and even with some of the worst CBs in the NFL out there in 2007 due to injury we still had the 6th ranked D. We need to find better ways to use what the guys can do, and hide what they can not, but if it was me I would go get a pass rusher like Kampman or if possible Peppers and get better 4 man pressure and just double both WRs all day.

Webb should definitly play over Carr and Walker on the outside. I am not sure if I would bench Washington or Foxworth just yet, but they need to find out what coverages can at least contend with our pass attack in practice.

Hopefully instead of a week off they are running some 1s on 1s in practice and shaking up the depth chart along with working the phones and the trade market.

[CoverD]

4. I am not a Mattison fan. I know it's early and I know bitching about it will not make any difference as Harbs loves him, but I'm just not seeing it. I know Harbs father is good friends with him and served on his staffs (along with Harbs himself), but that shouldn't be enough to vault him over the top here. I think he is forcing the 4-3 here when it doesn't have the personell...especially when it comes to passing downs...to run it. I really have no idea what scheme he is running...it seems like a big mix of cover 3 and cover 2. Cover 2 doesn't really work unless you have a good pass rush and Cover 3 requires solid CB play with an aware, disciplined safety...and we are pretty lacking in most of those requirements.

I'm pretty pissed/annoyed that we didn't even interview Gregg Williams or another guy who had some experience running an aggressive NFL defense like Mike Nolan or Dom Capers or someone like that.

Couldn't agree more. He should've stayed in Florida coaching the Gators. Mattison wasn't even THE defensive coordinator there, he was a co-coordinator. His vanilla defense is killing us.

Unless you are sure that they can coach, don't bring in your friends/buddies/family when trying to make a winning NFL football team. Take a look at Marty Schottenheimer when he was in San Diego, his son was the QB coach, and he was trying to get his brother in to be the defensive coordinator. As a result, Dean Spanos kicked Marty's ass to the curb since he was against having family on the same coaching staff (their record the previous season didn't help Marty's case either).

[Sua Sponte]

It was definently good to see McKinney in there and Webb.
I first noticed McKinney when he busted up the center and grabed the RB with one arm and stopped him in his tracks and Pryce finished him off.
Webb made a great play against a strong physical WR Harvin, when he stacked him up at the line and fought until he was tackled.

Fixes:
Cut Carr he is worthless if he can't return KO, and can't play DB/CB any where on the field he is worthless. He returns punts and he still doesn't do a good job at that.
Bench Landry until he gets his head out of his ass, Nakamura can't play any worse than Landry is right now.
Put the leash back on Reed until the secondary fixes some problems, and make him play his position.
Go Back to the 3-4 and get McClain and Barnes in there to rush and let Suggs roam a little. Suggs did better when he could roam and find the weak spot on the O-line, instead of rush from the same spot everytime.

[bmorebirds_24]

This is a general overview of problems I see with this defense and what needs to be done to correct the problems. Many of these moves cannot be made until the offseason obviously, but they need to be done in order to get the balance we have been wanting for so long.

1. IMHO...even moreso than another CB, we NEED another outside pass rusher.Since AD left, we have had no-one that threatens the outside other than Suggs. Speaking of Suggs, while he is a legit pass rush guy, he isn't in the elite class and gets totally shut out when he goes up against quality LT's. If he gets shut out, there goes our pass rush.

I think the team is pretty much playing McClain out of position when he can help at a spot that we are desperately in need. We don't need more ILB's, we need some pass rushers and McClain showed some promise there last year. Also, if Barnes isn't going to rush the QB, he is pretty much worthless. He apparently is in the doghouse once again this year and has been a big disappointment.

We aren't going to get anybody else this year though so that will have to be a priority during the draft...fortunately there are a lot of pass rushers out there next year. Unfortunately, maybe since we are going to a 4-3, many won't fit that type of defense.

I think that should be priority as nothing helps a secondary like a pass rush. As the saying goes, you could have 4 Deion Sanders' back there, but if you give the opposing QB 5 seconds, nobody can cover that long. I look at Denver this year...they had Champ Bailey and Dre Bly as their CB's with no pass rush. They struggled terribly. They moved Dumervil to a spot where he can excel and put pressure on the QB and suddenly, Denver is the best defense in football. Pitt has a guy William Gay and Ike Taylor as their CB's...not elite guys. But that pass rush shuts down offenses. We were at our best when we got after the QB...many times without having to bring the house.

I also think forcing the 4-3 when we don't have the personel is contributing to this mess as well, but I'll get to Mattison later.

2. The CB situation. We obviously have problems here and this is one instance where I think we can make some moves.

First the starters. I think Foxworth is taking the worse beating between himself and Washington, although I think Fox has played siginificantly better. Not elite by any stretch, but capable. He was overpaid and it was a questionable signing IMHO for a guy who was never a regular starter, and he has size/matchup problems that will never go away, but I think you can win with him at one spot if he has help from the front 4. I think him getting the brunt of the CB criticism from some is based on him getting that big contract.

Washington, I think, is the guy that has lost confidence. Preston keeps mentioning Fox as the guy with confidence issues, but the next aggressive play Washington makes this year will be his first. He is playing way off of guys...whether they are big TE's (Gates), journeyman WR's (Mark Bradley), or elite WR's (Chad Johnson). He hasn't been aggresively closing on the ball and we all know he has terrible hands. And he also is a matchup problem guy as he is small and soft when it comes to tackling or jump balls. I think the biggest red flag for me was him saying after the Minny game that he "agreed" with him getting benched. What? I don't care how bad you are playing, if you have your confidence and the short memory CB's need to have, you don't agree with getting benched...for Frank Walker. I remember after McAlister got destroyed by the Colts last year...he was furious that he was benched. I know he didn't have the best relationship with Harbs, but that is the fighting attitude you want from your starting CB. If you don't want to rock the boat, maybe you have a "no comment" or "that was the coach's decision, and I'll play so well next time he won't feel he wants/needs to make that move".

Carr has been pretty worthless and needs to be gone next year.

Walker had stretches like this last year and then played well down the stretch so I'm willing to give him the benifit of the doubt here.

But Webb HAS to get on the field. Honestly, since Washington thinks it's ok to get benched, I'd almost put Webb in there to take his spot and make Fabien the nickle guy...maybe that will help as Webb I think is CLEARLY the most physical CB we have other than Walker who can't cover right now without grabbing.

As for next year, the draft offerings for CB are about average. I think we should grab one though obviously with one of our first 2 or 3 picks.

3. The safeties. Oh Boy. Landry has been roasted on the field and on these boards and I tried to defend him to a degree, but you can't ignore what you are seeing. I think he is better than this, but like many have suggested, maybe the rust and injury are just too much for him right now. Pass defense has never been his strongsuit, but you can't have plays like the 2nd TD pass to Shiancoe where he is just staring at him about 5 yards away, or the pass to Rice over the middle in the first quarter where he was literally right under him at about the 5 yard line and never turned around when the pass basically went right over his head.

Reed is Reed. I don't know what to say about him...he is going to freelance...that's just Ed. He studies a hell of a lot of film and goes off of what he see's and a lot of times he is right. He is also going to wind up leaving CB's on islands that they aren't supposed to be on (the bomb to Rice at the end of the game). He likely got away with a lot of it when we had McAlister and Rolle (even Baxter) back there, but he is obviously not going to have the same luxury with this group. I think he needs to cut back on the freelancing until we get some CB's in here that can hold up in single coverage. But it's tough to really be hard on a guy who is going to the HOF.

Personally, I don't think Zibs has any real starting potential and Haruki isn't a sure bet either to be better than Landry. I guess you can give Haruki a shot, but I don't think it will be a sure thing that he is better. Leonhard is a guy who I think is getting way too much credit for being a "playmaker", but his steady, consistant play surely is missed at this point.

I don't know what to do for safety...we just invested a couple of picks in them (one a high pick...a 3rd) so I don't know if they rush back in to spend another high pick on one. May have to just make due with the 4 we have.

4. I am not a Mattison fan. I know it's early and I know bitching about it will not make any difference as Harbs loves him, but I'm just not seeing it. I know Harbs father is good friends with him and served on his staffs (along with Harbs himself), but that shouldn't be enough to vault him over the top here. I think he is forcing the 4-3 here when it doesn't have the personell...especially when it comes to passing downs...to run it. I really have no idea what scheme he is running...it seems like a big mix of cover 3 and cover 2. Cover 2 doesn't really work unless you have a good pass rush and Cover 3 requires solid CB play with an aware, disciplined safety...and we are pretty lacking in most of those requirements.

I'm pretty pissed/annoyed that we didn't even interview Gregg Williams or another guy who had some experience running an aggressive NFL defense like Mike Nolan or Dom Capers or someone like that.

I'll have more on my thoughts on the interior DL and LB's later. What are your thoughts?

Great post!


I have to say I agree with pretty much everything you have said. Like how you defend Landry, I defend Foxworth. He takes a lot of heat and I think the big contract is the reason why. I think if he was just a tad bit more aggresive, he would be looking really well. His size is a killer though. But he rarely gets burned on any route, but when the ball is in the air he needs to complete the play and knock the ball down.


Here's a thought and I would like to see your opinion on this. What about Webb at SS? He brings more speed then Landry, tackles pretty good for the most part and is not afraid of contact. I would also like t see him at corner, but I would like to see Washington get back to being solid, put Walker the the nickel and Webb at safety. IMO, Webb looks like he may be a play maker in the future. Any ideas on how well Nakamura can cover? I think Zibby gets beat and doesn't cover well, but honestly it's not often I pay much attention to him.



One question I have about the pass rush is Kruger. What's this dudes deal? Second round pick and not good enough to see the field other then 8 plays in one game? They say he has this "non-stop motor" and can get a push on the line is Barnes that much better at ST to keep him out of the line up? Could we sit down D. Williams and get Kruger some snaps? I like Barnes and think he could make plays on the QB, but it's like he doesn't see many snaps on the defense.



I been trying to find all kinds of answers and it pisses me off to no end that we have a offense that can score at anytime with some big play playmakers forming and we can't get off the damn field and shut teams down like we use to. I don't know if this team is playing all out for Mattison, like they did for Ryan.

[Khaine]

... I don't know if this team is playing all out for Mattison, like they did for Ryan.

IMO, they need to be playing for the team and themselves... Now, as of right now I'm not sold on Matti's job so far but a coach can not be your driving force to play... IMO...

[bmorebirds_24]

IMO, they need to be playing for the team and themselves... Now, as of right now I'm not sold on Matti's job so far but a coach can not be your driving force to play... IMO...

I agree! I just am trying to find the key factor as to why this defense looks so bad right now. I don't see Scott being that much of a difference maker for this team to look as bad as they do. Who knows? This is going to be a LONGGGGGGGGG two weeks.

[Khaine]

I agree! I just am trying to find the key factor as to why this defense looks so bad right now. I don't see Scott being that much of a difference maker for this team to look as bad as they do. Who knows? This is going to be a LONGGGGGGGGG two weeks.

Personally, I'm thinking it is a combo of a drop in CB play, a new scheme that looks like it is not using each player correctly to maximize their skill sets and similar lack of penetration we've seen in the recent past w/o organized chaos-style blitzing.

Which, all added together is a big problem. However, we know the player talent is there (for the most part) - what we don't know is if we can fix it in time to make sure we have a post season on the field or not...

[bmorebirds_24]

Personally, I'm thinking it is a combo of a drop in CB play, a new scheme that looks like it is not using each player correctly to maximize their skill sets and similar lack of penetration we've seen in the recent past w/o organized chaos-style blitzing.

Which, all added together is a big problem. However, we know the player talent is there (for the most part) - what we don't know is if we can fix it in time to make sure we have a post season on the field or not...

Well lets hope we get it together before the Broncos come to town. I can't wait to see what this team will do. We have got to see how Harbs handles this situation.

[Carey]

There's no quick fix for this except one thing. Gap discipline. We get guys playing more disciplined and stop giving up the big plays, we'll be fine defensively. That's what we need more than anything else, and it is absolutely correctable right now.

- C -

Completely agree, we still have a good defense, but we have guys that are not playing disciplined football right now, I do agree with some of the ideas of this thread going forward but as far as right now we have enough on defense to get where we want to go, guys just have to play with more discipline and better technique. And if the guys currently in the lineup cant do that then we have to put in the capable backups that can

[Stealthbirds80]

Here's a thought and I would like to see your opinion on this. What about Webb at SS? He brings more speed then Landry, tackles pretty good for the most part and is not afraid of contact. I would also like t see him at corner, but I would like to see Washington get back to being solid, put Walker the the nickel and Webb at safety. IMO, Webb looks like he may be a play maker in the future. Any ideas on how well Nakamura can cover? I think Zibby gets beat and doesn't cover well, but honestly it's not often I pay much attention to him.

I really really like that idea and I know that Webb played as a college safety, but was drafted as a corner. I'm really think that he will end up starting by years end b/c the rookie is supremely confident. Anyone hear an interview with this kid? He is a keeper. What good is Landry as a supposed thumper in the middle when he is more Roy Williams than Troy Polamalu. He is a liability in coverage like the D is playing with 10 guys and I'm not joking. With Webb in there you can have it like back when Jim Leonard was here and Reed was ok to free lance cause the part of the field he vacated was filled by Jim. Webb ran like a 4.35 at the combine so he can cover some ground. I think we saw the issue on Sidney Rice's long catch on the slant and how slow Landry was to catch him even with the angle. I mean wow he is slow. For all that put Tavares Gooden at safety, at least that guy can fly and probably can hang with a WR. Ok I'm joking with the Gooden notion, but I think that we need a change big time and it starts on the backend with the big plays.

[baltimore_hokie]

From an interview with Ngata on br.com:

“When we watch film, if we play technically-sound football, there’s no way anybody can beat us,” Ngata said. “When those big plays happen, there are two or three guys that get off their technique, and that’s when they’re able to hit a big run or throw a big pass. That goes for D-line, the linebackers and the DBs.”

[bmorebirds_24]

I really really like that idea and I know that Webb played as a college safety, but was drafted as a corner. I'm really think that he will end up starting by years end b/c the rookie is supremely confident. Anyone hear an interview with this kid? He is a keeper. What good is Landry as a supposed thumper in the middle when he is more Roy Williams than Troy Polamalu. He is a liability in coverage like the D is playing with 10 guys and I'm not joking. With Webb in there you can have it like back when Jim Leonard was here and Reed was ok to free lance cause the part of the field he vacated was filled by Jim. Webb ran like a 4.35 at the combine so he can cover some ground. I think we saw the issue on Sidney Rice's long catch on the slant and how slow Landry was to catch him even with the angle. I mean wow he is slow. For all that put Tavares Gooden at safety, at least that guy can fly and probably can hang with a WR. Ok I'm joking with the Gooden notion, but I think that we need a change big time and it starts on the backend with the big plays.

Well then I say we make the move. You are looking at things the same way as I am.



Here's a thought...


Let's send in our applications to Harbs, one can be the DC and one can be the secondary coach. I have a little ego so I'd prefer the DC job, but if it means win I will take the secondary spot....

[Ravenswarrior19]

Well then I say we make the move. You are looking at things the same way as I am.



Here's a thought...


Let's send in our applications to Harbs, one can be the DC and one can be the secondary coach. I have a little ego so I'd prefer the DC job, but if it means win I will take the secondary spot....

I heard this usually works!!


I'd like to add a couple observations about our D-line play. I can't understand the rotation we were using in the Vikings game.
-On the first 3rd and long passing situation, our Tackles were Bannan and Gregg. Dwan Edwards played as both DE, and DT, in passing situations. When we finally subbed in Pryce, he got a sack, and summarily played in running situations for the next 2 series.

If we are looking to save Pryce from getting tired, take him off the field in run situation and use him exclusively for pass rushing. The Falcons did it with John Abraham and he had a career revival.

If we want to get off the field on 3rd down, pull out the fatty run-stuffers. Kelly Gregg does not collapse pockets.

We heard all preseason about how our Dline was talented, and our rotation would keep everyone fresh. Well no matter how fresh a line of Edwards, Bannan, Gregg, and Suggs may be, the chances of getting to a QB on 2nd and 14 are pretty slim.

[Jeremiah W]

I heard this usually works!!


I'd like to add a couple observations about our D-line play. I can't understand the rotation we were using in the Vikings game.
-On the first 3rd and long passing situation, our Tackles were Bannan and Gregg. Dwan Edwards played as both DE, and DT, in passing situations. When we finally subbed in Pryce, he got a sack, and summarily played in running situations for the next 2 series.

If we are looking to save Pryce from getting tired, take him off the field in run situation and use him exclusively for pass rushing. The Falcons did it with John Abraham and he had a career revival.

If we want to get off the field on 3rd down, pull out the fatty run-stuffers. Kelly Gregg does not collapse pockets.

We heard all preseason about how our Dline was talented, and our rotation would keep everyone fresh. Well no matter how fresh a line of Edwards, Bannan, Gregg, and Suggs may be, the chances of getting to a QB on 2nd and 14 are pretty slim.

Of all the questionable things I saw on the D the DL rotation had to be at the top of the list.

Why? Why are they playing those guys at that time? Edwards is not a DE in a 4-3, not even a RDE.

Gregg gets no push even when he was 100%, he was pretty much a hold his ground and shed a block kind of guy, not a pocket pusher or pass rusher.

The run downs D for me would be;

McKinney, Nagta and Talavou would be lined up accross the middle, covering the Ts and Gs depending on down distance and play call.

JJ and Suggs lined up on the TE or outside of the uncovered T responsible for setting the edge and QB contain.

Gooden and Ray playing the inside roles, but I would also mix in Ellerbe or McClain if they have good Gs and a lead blocking FB. Bart was the best I ever saw at taking out the lead blocker no matter if it was a 270 pound FB running down hill or a 330 pound G coming around on a G pull, Bart would get up on them and tackle them low basically like they are just a big RB in the hole, allowing the rest of the pursuit to flow free. Recently whether it is the D line getting pushed into the LBs or if it is the LBs not filling fast enough and taking on the blocks, the run D is not nearly the same, and the Ravens can only stop the pass (vs a good QB and WRs) if they know it is coming.

Passing downs I would let Gregg play the QB spy/ just occupy a blocker then watch for the run or swat a pass. Nagta and Suggs, I would sub out more often on run downs in the 3rd and 4th Q to keep them fresh in those late drives that kill us. Bring in Barnes, Kruger, McClain, even Edgar Jones on occasion and get after the QB with faster and fresher legs.

We should have more than enough depth to have a fast group of pass rushers out there in the 4th Q of any game, and more than enough big ugly DTs to stuff the run and beat on the O line instead of the other way around early in the game.

I actually did not like Rex's high risk, high reward blitzing style, but he did seem to have a much better feel for who to play and when and in what role. From a philosophy standpoint I like what Mattison is talking about, but from what I have seen, the players and roster may not be built to do what he wants them to. The front 4 at Florida when he was there, could just get after the QB/ stuff the run and dominate. Here he is going to have to get a little more creative than what I have seen, or maybe just a little more simple but better disguised.

[Rxdoxx]

This is a general overview of problems I see with this defense and what needs to be done to correct the problems. Many of these moves cannot be made until the offseason obviously, but they need to be done in order to get the balance we have been wanting for so long.

1.
2.
3.
4.

Agree totally (didn't want to clutter by mirroring everything you said)

1. I have felt that we were being a 4-3 even though not much was said. Looked a lot like the way Rex would line things up at the start, but after the snap it didn't morph into anything other than vanilla 4-3. Suggs big $$ value includes his versatility. He is not a true DE, he is a tweener, and a damn good one. He has been turned into a far more one-dimentional player in this scheme, and it is a shame. We have put an added feature of our defense on the shelf. Peel Suggs off occasionally into coverage and I'm sure you would leave their O-line with a player looking for someone to block (the one who dould double Sizzle) That confusion/delay, lack of optimum resource use could be exploited on the other side a couple of plays a game.

2. CB. We finally came around to appreciating Frank Walker and the skill set he brings. He is very servicable underneath (as was BA), and an absolute liability if forced downfield in the wide open spaces. Stupid to put that man in that position. Webb with all his inexperience has a better chance of being effective downfield than Frank.

3. We talk about Landry and how we are not liking what we see, and are unsure if Zibs or HNaka... maybe Frank could hold that spot down? Of for a totally off-the-wall idea, maybe Barnes (using his size/speed and moving him away from the big blockers??)
Maybe it is gap assignments, I don't know at this point, but I'm not convinced that is the total cure.

4. Can't add a whole lot, you covered it very well. If we have truly returned to a 4-3 then we have to use HNata differently. We validly argue he should have been pro-bowl in the 3-4, in a 4-3 we decrease the impact of his importance to what the rest of the D can be doing. Yes, we are not currently built to be a super 4-3 team.

As an aside, holding an extra DT on the roster (T-lu) and trading a LB (Burgess) just screams at me that someone is seeing us as a 4-3. I'm not complaining about the personall decisions, just saying it doesn't jive with a 3-4 mentality.

[Jeremiah W]

Agree totally (didn't want to clutter by mirroring everything you said)

1. I have felt that we were being a 4-3 even though not much was said. Looked a lot like the way Rex would line things up at the start, but after the snap it didn't morph into anything other than vanilla 4-3. Suggs big $$ value includes his versatility. He is not a true DE, he is a tweener, and a damn good one. He has been turned into a far more one-dimentional player in this scheme, and it is a shame. We have put an added feature of our defense on the shelf. Peel Suggs off occasionally into coverage and I'm sure you would leave their O-line with a player looking for someone to block (the one who dould double Sizzle) That confusion/delay, lack of optimum resource use could be exploited on the other side a couple of plays a game.

2. CB. We finally came around to appreciating Frank Walker and the skill set he brings. He is very servicable underneath (as was BA), and an absolute liability if forced downfield in the wide open spaces. Stupid to put that man in that position. Webb with all his inexperience has a better chance of being effective downfield than Frank.

3. We talk about Landry and how we are not liking what we see, and are unsure if Zibs or HNaka... maybe Frank could hold that spot down? Of for a totally off-the-wall idea, maybe Barnes (using his size/speed and moving him away from the big blockers??)
Maybe it is gap assignments, I don't know at this point, but I'm not convinced that is the total cure.

4. Can't add a whole lot, you covered it very well. If we have truly returned to a 4-3 then we have to use HNata differently. We validly argue he should have been pro-bowl in the 3-4, in a 4-3 we decrease the impact of his importance to what the rest of the D can be doing. Yes, we are not currently built to be a super 4-3 team.

As an aside, holding an extra DT on the roster (T-lu) and trading a LB (Burgess) just screams at me that someone is seeing us as a 4-3. I'm not complaining about the personall decisions, just saying it doesn't jive with a 3-4 mentality.

That is all well put.

I think we do have the personel to use a 4-3, but just do not see why the DC would use it so much the way he has.

JJ and Suggs can set the edge and play with the hand in the dirt DE, and there are enough DTs on the team to put the right combo to cover Gs.

If we were to go 4-3, base should be

95, 92, 91, 90 accross the front.

55, 52, 56 lbs

21, 43, 20, 41 dbs

JJ is a better pure DE and worse LB than Suggs.

McKinney is a lot bigger/ stronger/ better than all the DTs not named Nagta right now.

Pryce is one player who would seem better suited at 4-3 RDE than 3-4 RDE in which case I would play Gregg/ Bannan and T Vu in those more DT roles and let him just rush the QB from the front and middle.

55 is a great all around OLB, but not a great DE because of his size, and lack of creative pass rush moves. He can thrive at OLB in any scheme and DE in the nickle and dime looks, sometimes up, down, left right or in coverage.

He is the franchise player because of the way he can be used to defeat blocking schemes, but if he is almost always a DE, that tactical advantage is left on the shelf.

Ray needs 2 big bodies to take up the middle 3 (although I would use a 3-4 reduced look with the DTs covering the middle 3 with the ILBs wider) as long as he can get side to side with out getting sealed, no one is running on us.

The DB play has been a disaster and it is impossible to point the finger, but I would play the CBs with the best strength/ speed combo and play press coverage like almost all the time, and if the CBs are off, it will either be a 7 man blitz or a 3 man rush with double coverage everywhere.

It looks like Landry should be benched in favor of the best cover guy, and only put back in if he proves he can play again situationally and on special teams. Nakamura seems like the choice, maybe Zibs on running downs.

Way beyond the base formations, the Ravens need to get better at matching up and covering up the weak spots. Dwan Edwards should never be in the game at DE in passing situations late in the game unless there are a lot of injury issues. Walker should never be 1 on 1 deep with any #1 WR. None of our CBs really should be unless we are playing a bad QB or WR group, but when a team is running on you, the play action works and guys blow coverages.

I think if we get the right DL and LB rotation to stop the run the way we are used to, we will also be able to get after QBs and still protect the CBs over the top.

[Stealthbirds80]

Well then I say we make the move. You are looking at things the same way as I am.



Here's a thought...


Let's send in our applications to Harbs, one can be the DC and one can be the secondary coach. I have a little ego so I'd prefer the DC job, but if it means win I will take the secondary spot....

HAHA it doesn't even matter as I would take either job. I just want this thing fixed. I'm not sure also why our corners play so far off the ball. I mean they don't have to necessarily be in press coverage, but at least closer than 10 yds off the ball maybe 5yds? I think they are asking for teams to WR screen them all day and have Fabe or Fox miss tackles and give up a nice gainer. Along with the secondary issues I'm thinking that this new DC may not know how to use certain players and that would explain the absence of the McClain and Barnes in the gameplan. I think McClain would be a good DE in some situations as he was a college DE. I can't remember the last time I saw him on the field. Why is Suggs not dropping back on some plays as he is an all around player. He will not have a good statistical year doing what they currently do. I think Pryce is doing a pretty good job in this system though and would have better stats if the refs werent concerned about the QB's so much and would call holding on the O-line at some point, geez. I think the biggest thing is that this D which I never thought I would say has no identity and the offense actually does wow. What does the D do well anymore besides the individual players. I hope that Mattison is not losing these guys with this scheme b/c if we aren't buying into it how are the guys on the team do it. I mean I think that giving up 100 yds to one RB two weeks in a row might be more significant than we think mentally (even though Petersons yds were mostly off of one or two big runs) and this bye week came at a perfect time to fix this runaway train.

[Rxdoxx]

What does the D do well anymore besides the individual players. I hope that Mattison is not losing these guys with this scheme b/c if we aren't buying into it how are the guys on the team do it.

True!

Let me step out on a limb a bit.
I don't think Mattison is bad, he is a very knowledgable and good DC, and I think he has the respect of the players.

Where the problem lies is 4-3/3-4.
I'm not going to say we were the pioneers, but we have sure found ways to utilize tweeners in ways and a system that others in the copy-cat league began mirroring.
Start with the homerun we hit with Boulware. Now we have Suggs, JJ, Kruger (if he ever gets to a regular spot on the field).

IMHO, there is a difference in LB skill set between a 4-3 team and a 3-4.
In a 4-3, a little better cone-time is needed, the players need a little more of the Safety type skills... quickness/speed/cutability.
In a 3-4, while they obviously have to have some of the above, their strength is the ability to accept contact and be able to work some effective things off of it.
Start with Barnes, he is a 4-3 LB. We are frustrated seeing a RB neutralize him time and time again. Man, we want to see a RB try to stop JJ when he comes or (LOL) Suggs. This is the strength of the tweeners. Jameel probably is more in this class along with Kruger, and possibly Ellerbe. Burgess I haven't seen enough to be sure.

So, we have the personell depth for a 3-4 and Mattison sure looks like he is a 4-3 DC. I don't think he has lost the players, I think he has lost utilizing the core team strength.

Just as a little icing, Ray's play on Sproles was free-lance. Hall of fame perfect, but wasn't part of the Mattison philosophy (but could have been something Rex would have dialed up).

I can see Mattison as a superbowl DC, he is that good. Unfortunately the players he has need 'organized chaos' smoke and mirrors to raise the D to an elite unit, and "watching your gaps/assignments" will help but is not this team's answer for greatness.