Good break down of the D

**NCRAVEN** · 10-21-2009, 07:01 PM

Good info on the D here about why the bigs plays are happening. It would seem to me based on the breakdown, that the players are over aggressive for a system that is not designed to be.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...-Vikings-recap

**Stealthbirds80** · 10-21-2009, 07:40 PM

i concur. I think the players are playing like Rex's defense, but in Mattison's scheme. I think the plays will come to them in this scheme if they stay put, but they are forcing the issue in this new D. I think Mattison's scheme is more along the lines of when Marvin Lewis was here and how vanilla that scheme was, but we all know how that turned out. This scheme is more aggressive, but the main thing was to try an eliminate big plays. I think that this may be just a case of just getting back to basics even for the veterans. Having Rex here the last couple years may be actually hurting this new campaign, but I'm a armchair observer and not in the film room like some of you others.

**Sua Sponte** · 10-21-2009, 09:27 PM

Good point fellas, I was just saying the same thing the other day. They are still playing agressive. Hopefully they can get back to being patient and let the plays come to them. They are trying to hard to make the big play because the D is use to having to make those big plays to stay in the gmae. i think this last game will settle them down and give them confidence in the Offense. Once they have great confidence in the offense they will let the plays develop because the pressure will be off and they know we can move the ball.
There are still some guys out there that should be benched unless they wake up. Landry should be subbed on coverage plays and Carr should just be flat out benched for Webb

**Sua Sponte** · 10-21-2009, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Good info on the D here about why the bigs plays are happening. It would seem to me based on the breakdown, that the players are over aggressive for a system that is not designed to be.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...-Vikings-recap

collect notes off of this video and a guy (Landry) that is suppose to be great at run coverage didn't even look good at that, watch him over persue and leave that back side completely open.

not just to bash Landry because Ed bit a few times and gave up some big plays. He left Shincoe wide open and though he was going to jump a crossing route on a guy that was covered. To aggressive

I'm not really seeing the corners get completely burnt on any of that film it seems to be the safeties more than anything. the 1st PI on Walker looked like a good play by Walker and the 2nd he was supposse to have help over the top and none was there.

**ravensnhokies** · 10-21-2009, 11:13 PM

Honestly I think Fabian would have broken up the big Rice slant pattern if Reed didnt get in the way. Or at least, he probably could have tackled him right after the catch, b/c if you watch the play, he slightly held up b/c of Reed in the way.

Just real bad communications, and safeties not helping out.

**Carey** · 10-22-2009, 08:35 AM

Ed Reed is and will always be a gambler, He's made so many big plays that i wont complain one bit. I just think you have to have someone steady back there with him, A guy who knows where to be, solid in every aspect. A good example is Darren Sharper. Landry doesnt seem to be that type of player, hopefully Nakamura or Zbiby can be or we have to look elsewhere in the offseason.

**ravensnhokies** · 10-22-2009, 11:10 AM

I will complain... He is hurting the team right now by not playing within the framework of the defensive scheme. If he feels that he as an individual is bigger than the whole defensive unit, then Harbs needs to sit him down on the bench maybe a quarter or two to set him straight. Obviously, you never want to sit Reed, but, hell it can't get any worse at this point. I wish Reed would understand that we do not need the Reed of old, when our Defense needed to score for us to win. The Ravens have a formidable offense finally. We need for Reed to play his position. Sure Reed won't get as many highlight plays but what is more important, wins or individual highlights? Billick in 2000, back when the players listened to his message, asked them if they want to go to the Pro Bowl, by making great individual plays like what happened in 1999, or a Superbowl, by playing as a team even though it may not highlight your individual play. We'll we know the result. Harbs could rehash this good speech.

And I only have one jersey, and its #20, so I am somewhat biased. But ultimately I care about the team not the number on the back.

**Mwjergs** · 10-22-2009, 11:22 AM

This is exactly why I've been hestitant to criticize Mattison. Watching those videos over at least gives you some idea of the mis-communication and how players are overpursuing or undisciplined in their roles.

I think back to the last play Favre threw deep with a 1 point lead. I wondered why Walker was one on one and where the safety help was. Both Reed and Landry are chasing behind the play when they should be in a position to help with anything over the top. Players need to make plays.

**Sua Sponte** · 10-22-2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Mwjergs

This is exactly why I've been hestitant to criticize Mattison. Watching those videos over at least gives you some idea of the mis-communication and how players are overpursuing or undisciplined in their roles.

I think back to the last play Favre threw deep with a 1 point lead. I wondered why Walker was one on one and where the safety help was. Both Reed and Landry are chasing behind the play when they should be in a position to help with anything over the top. Players need to make plays.

Yea but if Mattison ain't getting in that ass when players are getting out of position than he ain't doing his job.

**RavensDomination** · 10-22-2009, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Stealthbirds80

i concur. I think the players are playing like Rex's defense, but in Mattison's scheme.

That about sums it up there.

I like Ed Reed but his freelancing is killing us this year.

**Jeremiah W** · 10-22-2009, 12:15 PM

NFL.com has done a lot of eye in the sky breakdowns on the Ravens D, and they do appear to be very jumpy in the back end.

The CBs are always back and the safties are always jumping up leaving them exposed.

Maybe the LBs are so bad in coverage the safties feel the need to play up all the time and react to stuff in the flats and middle like they are the only chance to make the play, but the Ravens are not running good defensive plays and coverages right now, and I do not think it would matter if Bart, Jimmy Leonard and a young C mac all came back.

The Ravens are not winning the battles in the trenches right now. Last year we were dominant on both sides of the ball in short yardage situations. Right now our D line is getting pushed off the ball and getting blocked (held) more often than they are beating the blocks.

I feel like we have the depth and talent on the roster to defend any team and situation, but from what I have seen, we have not put the right players in the right roles often enough on D, at least in the last 2 years in the 4th Q vs good teams we just have not gotten the stops, and have been put in a lot of bad 1 on 1 matchups that we predictably lost, like Walker 1 on 1 with Rice who was already killing him and Washington 1 on 1 all day, or Bannan and JJ as the only guys anywhere near Brett when he threw the ball with no one coming close to putting a hand on him. If Walker is 1 on 1 with a good, big fast Wr, someone has got to be hitting the QB, or it was a very bad play call.

Here is a very ugly looking coaches tape breakdown of the big play. Reed is caught flat footed as Rice runs right by him. Frank Walker actually has pretty good coverage and was pushed off on more than he really interefered. He was supposed to have inside help and did not though, so he was actually in perfect position.

Dwan Edwards gets solo blocked by Kleinsasser for like 5 seconds as Brett rolls out right to him. It is a truly pathetic piece of film for any one ever to line up at DE to watch. He never even comes close to getting off the block of a TE. He is crazy slow off the snap, gets dominated by a TE in a pass blocking sitation, where the QB rolls out right ot him and winds up for a 63 yard throw. It really is disgusting, and makes me really question the DC for putting him in the game at DE in the first place when it could have been Kruger or McClain, or JJ up on the line instead of getting lost as a 4-3 LB. I like Edwards as a rotation 3-4 DT, but he should never be put on a TE in the first place, but he should be able to beat them badly if he is, and it wsa the opposite on this play.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...s&confirm=true

**Ravenswarrior19** · 10-22-2009, 06:41 PM

That was pure ugh.

**psuasskicker** · 10-22-2009, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Carey

Ed Reed is and will always be a gambler, He's made so many big plays that i wont complain one bit.

Originally Posted by ravensnhokies

I will complain... He is hurting the team right now by not playing within the framework of the defensive scheme.

Originally Posted by RavensDomination

I like Ed Reed but his freelancing is killing us this year.

Every friggin' year we do this. He gambles and misses, half of you sell him out and throw him under the bus. He gambles and hits, everyone's singing his praises as one of the best defensive players of all time.

The guy hits more than he misses. On occasion he starts slowly. This is one of those occasions. I'm not jumping down his throat cause we can't have it both ways. The guy's nowhere near the playmaker he is if he doesn't gamble on some things. You either want him to be a playmaker, and are forced to take the bad with the good; or you want him to play within the scheme, and accept the fact that he'll become a non-impact, mediocre player.

Let's face facts here. The guy probably isn't a whole lot more effective than Leonhard was if he completely stops gambling on things. The whole reason he's such an awesome player is because he gambles on 50%+ of the plays, and he's smart as hell which means he's right way more often than he's wrong. I don't want to take that away from him, even if it hurts the team when he's on a missing streak.

He's nowhere close to the biggest problem on defense right now. Problem #1 starts with L and ends with ry with and in the middle.

- C -

**Sua Sponte** · 10-22-2009, 09:59 PM

I don't think anybody wants Reed to stop making plays, but he needs to stop gambling so much until things get back under control and he doesn't need to gamble when we have a 1 point lead and leave a Corner on and island. Reed will make plays regardless if he gambles on every down or not. He just needs to slow it down until the rest of the D comes back around and O coordinators lose sleep game planing for the D.

**psuasskicker** · 10-23-2009, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by ScoNo

I don't think anybody wants Reed to stop making plays, but he needs to stop gambling so much until things get back under control and he doesn't need to gamble when we have a 1 point lead and leave a Corner on and island. Reed will make plays regardless if he gambles on every down or not. He just needs to slow it down until the rest of the D comes back around and O coordinators lose sleep game planing for the D.

No. You don't get to have it both ways. Either he's a playmaker and gambling, or he's not and he's not. There is no perfect ground here where he's a playmaker while staying within the scheme.

He ran across the field before the ball was snapped and picked off the Palmer pass. You want him staying within the scheme and not gambling so much? He never makes that pick 6.

Leave him alone. Sometimes he misses. He makes more huge plays than he gives up when he misses. I'm not worried about it. He's not our problem. Our problem is the guys who try to do the same things he does, but are nowhere near as good as he is so they miss more often than they hit.

- C -

**Mwjergs** · 10-23-2009, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

No. You don't get to have it both ways. Either he's a playmaker and gambling, or he's not and he's not. There is no perfect ground here where he's a playmaker while staying within the scheme.

He ran across the field before the ball was snapped and picked off the Palmer pass. You want him staying within the scheme and not gambling so much? He never makes that pick 6.

Leave him alone. Sometimes he misses. He makes more huge plays than he gives up when he misses. I'm not worried about it. He's not our problem. Our problem is the guys who try to do the same things he does, but are nowhere near as good as he is so they miss more often than they hit.

- C -

I disagree.

Take that last drive with a few minutes left in the Minnesota game. Reed and Landry should be providing help over the top. Instead Walker is left with a one on one for a deep gain.

A player with the experience and smarts should understand the situation and the score and determine if gambling out out his assigned duty is a risk that is worth taking.

Reed's made one big play this year but he's helped give up more than he's gotten so far. Harbaugh even spoke to him about it. So I'll go with the Head coach's assessment.

**Mwjergs** · 10-23-2009, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by ScoNo

Yea but if Mattison ain't getting in that ass when players are getting out of position than he ain't doing his job.

But you and I have no idea what he says to his players on the sideline or in the locker room.

Players make plays and coaches put them in position to make them.

**Carey** · 10-23-2009, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

No. You don't get to have it both ways. Either he's a playmaker and gambling, or he's not and he's not. There is no perfect ground here where he's a playmaker while staying within the scheme.

He ran across the field before the ball was snapped and picked off the Palmer pass. You want him staying within the scheme and not gambling so much? He never makes that pick 6.

Leave him alone. Sometimes he misses. He makes more huge plays than he gives up when he misses. I'm not worried about it. He's not our problem. Our problem is the guys who try to do the same things he does, but are nowhere near as good as he is so they miss more often than they hit.

- C -

Prime Example!!! He's just not some loose cannon, He studys so much film that he's able to catch on to tendacies, i agree there is no medium, he is either an aggressive ballhawk or jus another safety. He's not immune to criticism tho, he has some mistakes this year but i think they were more technique then him being too aggressive. I think our best bet is to get someone at the other safety spot that is sound and less aggressive, well really just an upgrade from landry

**ravensnhokies** · 10-23-2009, 09:58 AM

If its a stay within the system Reed or a gambling, gives up a few big plays/game versus an occasional INT return Reed...Flat out, I want Reed to play the solid centerfield 'Safety' role this year. Again this is a complete 180 from previous years, b/c in the past we had no offense, and we needed the defense to win games. Also, this year, the defensive talent around him does not afford him the luxury of gambling wrong and the defense not getting burned bad.

If we improve our pass rush, through better blitz schemes, and with Ed playing a solid centerfield FS role, the INTs will come his way.

**Sua Sponte** · 10-23-2009, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

No. You don't get to have it both ways. Either he's a playmaker and gambling, or he's not and he's not. There is no perfect ground here where he's a playmaker while staying within the scheme.

He ran across the field before the ball was snapped and picked off the Palmer pass. You want him staying within the scheme and not gambling so much? He never makes that pick 6.

Leave him alone. Sometimes he misses. He makes more huge plays than he gives up when he misses. I'm not worried about it. He's not our problem. Our problem is the guys who try to do the same things he does, but are nowhere near as good as he is so they miss more often than they hit.

- C -

I like when he gambles, but sometimes he needs to stick with his coverage.
Situational football.
When he did make a break on the pick 6 against Cincy, he new the blitz was going from the left side and he watched Palmer give Chad a look and a hot route. Great play, but leaving Corners on an island is not, anything underneath is a good time to gamble, but not over the top with a 1 point lead.
I love the way Reed plays the game, but as we stand right now he needs to get back into playing with the team. I also think he knows Landry is sucking and feels like he has to make up the ground, and can't freelance like he wants to because of the weak playing by Landry.