POLL: Will we get hosed by the Refs in Foxboro again?

[BmoreBrawla]

I don't like our chances against NE because our QB has yet to show that he is a real gamer. Sorry, that's the truth. Teams that have outstanding QBs like the Colts, NE, San Diego, Pitt, just to name a few, find a way to take control of the game. Flacco looked pathetic yesterday--the worst I have ever seen. He has yet to bring us back from a real deficit.

We won yesterday because our running game took charge and was able to beat a below .500 team. We have not beat good teams, except for San Diego and San Diego is not the same team we beat back in September.

Moreover, our team has difficulty controlling itself when the penalties start to fly. We are penalized a lot, because we bring it on ourselves. Can Frank Walker ever play a game without a penalty? Would it be too much to ask of him to play a half way intelligent game?

We need to play perfect football next week to win and I haven't seen that this year from our team. So to answer the question, if we get hosed by the Refs, it will be our doing that we fed the fire and couldn't help ourselves.

He did a good job bringing us back against them last time, but Clayton dropped it. I agree that he has been inconsistent though.

[BmoreBrawla]

We have been screwing ourselves and this is not a function of the Refs screwing us.

Refs make bad calls. It's a given, especially in this league where officiating is an absolute joke this year.

But when you have a team that commits the utterly stupid penalties that we commit and combine it with a few bad Ref calls, you get what we had in Foxboro in week 4.

I don't think that this applies to Foxboro, but it does apply to every other game this year. Foxboro was a special case from beginning to end.

[Everything_Ravens]

ive said this b4. this is sports Entertainment. the league is concerned with expanding their brand. u dont necessarily do that by trying to appease die hard fans that will watch their team week n, week out regardless.

you do this by shining the light 4 all the world to see on your teams that are most appropriately built to play the style of football the league has clearly set rules in place to be played. no different than baseball they want to see the long ball, look at how the rules on PI have been changed.


teams that threaten this style of football game (IE Ravens), without supplementing it with a formidable offence themselves, threaten an untapped demographic of potential viewership, that will not be turned on by defensive style games. the playoffs are the league's best opportunity to grab these kind of viewers.

so to answer the Q, YES! especially if its close!

[HoustonRaven]

I don't think that this applies to Foxboro, but it does apply to every other game this year. Foxboro was a special case from beginning to end.

First three games into the season we were at the top of list in the league with penalties.

Refs were on guard and this team made dumb plays. Week 4 included.

[BmoreBrawla]

First three games into the season we were at the top of list in the league with penalties.

Refs were on guard and this team made dumb plays. Week 4 included.

oh, I know the refs are ALWAYS on guard against us, but we are talking about bad spots, impossible to miss calls that are not called, bogus calls, and questionable clock management all in favor of the darlings of the NFL. It isnt like they called ticky tack on us and normal on them. They called nothing on them and made fake calls on us.

I do agree with you that more times than not it is merely our (deserved) poor reputation that leads to some bad calls against us. The GB game was totally understandable to me. I have NEVER seen a more consistently biased game called in the NFL than the Ravens/Pats this year.(The NCAA game between Arkansas and Florida was pretty bad).

[HoustonRaven]

oh, I know the refs are ALWAYS on guard against us, but we are talking about bad spots, impossible to miss calls, bogus calls, and questionable clock management all in favor of the darlings of the NFL. It isnt like they called ticky tack on us and normal on them. They called nothing on them and made fake calls on us.

The Pats got 5 called on them for 41 yards so there goes your "nothing" theory.

We also turned the ball over twice. An INT and a fumble, both costing us points.

It's your right to spin this into some conspiracy theory but facts are facts.

We were a VERY undisciplined team in week 4. Period.

As such, when the Refs drop a bad call or two, it kills us even further because we commit 7-8 legit ones.

[Sua Sponte]

The Pats got 5 called on them for 41 yards so there goes your "nothing" theory.

We also turned the ball over twice. An INT and a fumble, both costing us points.

It's your right to spin this into some conspiracy theory but facts are facts.

We were a VERY undisciplined team in week 4. Period.

As such, when the Refs drop a bad call or two, it kills us even further because we commit 7-8 legit ones.

I'd have to disagree, yeah they did call NE on a couple of penalties but they were blatant penalties and they can not make there bias ways that noticable, and Ron Winters and company have called some other bad games this year in favor of the shinning star teams (NE, INDY, PITT) that were close games. I will be the first to say we shot ourselves in the foot with undiscplined penalties, but there have been some really poor penalties called against the Ravens and obvious penalties commited against the Ravens that magically go unnoticed. The officiating around the league this year was horrible, I watched Farve, Flacco, Rodgers, and a few other good QB's get mualed, high lowed, hit late, against teams like Pitt, and NE and no flags were thrown, and to add to the flavor they didn't turn around expecting a flag to be thrown and rallying for one. That has been the worst thing about officials this year. QB's and WR's rally for a flag and it gets thrown for select teams. If an official don't throw a flag in due time and the play is clearly over they should not be able to throw a flag when some pansy is crying.

[HoustonRaven]

If an official don't throw a flag in due time and the play is clearly over they should not be able to throw a flag when some pansy is crying.

The Refs calling that roughing penalty after Brady's lobbying was ONE penalty out of our NINE that game.

Let that soak in for a second ....

We gave up a football field worth in stupid moves on our part in week 4. Not to mention the tons more yards we gave up in weeks one to three, making us the Ref target du jour for the remainder of the season.

Maybe the Refs are "out to get us" but it's only in terms of we love to commit those stupid moves on a frequent basis and the Refs are now looking for it.

The Pats, on the other hand, are a very detailed and disciplined team. Brady's crying not withstanding.

[Jeremiah W]

The Refs calling that roughing penalty after Brady's lobbying was ONE penalty out of our NINE that game.

Let that soak in for a second ....

We gave up a football field worth in stupid moves on our part in week 4. Not to mention the tons more yards we gave up in weeks one to three, making us the Ref target du jour for the remainder of the season.

Maybe the Refs are "out to get us" but it's only in terms of we love to commit those stupid moves on a frequent basis and the Refs are now looking for it.

The Pats, on the other hand, are a very detailed and disciplined team. Brady's crying not withstanding.

They play the same kind of football and get less flags. They gameplan the officials and try to draw the kind of flags they throw the most and have even said so to reporters.

The Ravens are not only the most flagged team in the AFC, they are the team that opponents of are the least flagged. They have the biggest difference in the NFL in terms of penalties for vs against. Even without any further inspection that is sort of suspect by itself.

Game after game we see every different flag in the book, some they just seem to make up on the spot like the 15 yards on Harbaugh for calling a bullshit PI a bullshit call, just like the one on Carr.

You could say there is holding on every play, but really the holding as I grew up knowing it was only done or called when a guy was beat and wanted to protect his Qb or RB. When the Ravens miss a block and grab (most of the time Joe just gets jacked up) they get a holding call. When the Ravens DL breaks free and is about to sack a good QB and is put into a headlock or just has the back of numbers grabbed with 2 hands, no one ever seems to throw a flag.

It just does not seem like the refs are out to get us. The statistics indicate it. The only question is why do the Ravens commit so many more penalties than the opponents, and I can not accept that they are just a little more stupid or undiciplined as a reasonable explanation.

[bmorebirds_24]

A good example about certain calls is when we just recently lost to the Steelers. They had no holding penalties aganst them and we had 5 was it? The int. by Zibby in final 2 mins. of the game if you watch Barnes was in route to Ben and was held like he was in a fight.


Brady is a great QB, but he is watched like a new born baby. If you even touch him close to the wrongway a flag is thrown I do not expect anything different this week playing them. I am not saying we don't kill ourselves with dumb flags, but it's ashame the way they protaect certaqin guys in this league.

[Everything_Ravens]

Maybe the Refs are "out to get us" but it's only in terms of we love to commit those stupid moves on a frequent basis and the Refs are now looking for it.

so let me get this clear.....

THE PLAYERS, have to go out on a week by week basis and adhere to technique and the rules as defined in the Rule Book regardless of circumstance.

But THE REFS, can predetermine, identified teams before hand that they will be more inclined to throw the flag on, because of past performance.

[HoustonRaven]

so let me get this clear.....

THE PLAYERS, have to go out on a week by week basis and adhere to technique and the rules as defined in the Rule Book regardless of circumstance.

But THE REFS, can predetermine, identified teams before hand that they will be more inclined to throw the flag on, because of past performance

No. You're incorrectly stating that our players are "playing by the rules, week in and week out". And my posts have been pretty clear.

Refs will game plan just as teams do. If that's news to you, then either you're young or you simply do not understand the nuances of the NFL and it's officiating. Umpires have differing strike zones, Hoops refs have varying degrees of traveling, fouls, etc and football refs either call it hard or let the players play.

If you're a team that commits the quality and quantity of penalties we do, you're going to get the ticky-tack crap called against you in addition to the normal BS all teams see.

Besides a few cases, we ARE committing these penalties. Which of the 203 penalties this team has seen are BS?

31 other teams not named Ravens have managed to do better than anyone else in terms of penalty yardage. Yes, we're dead last in the league.

We have given up almost 11 football fields worth of offensive penalties this season. Tack on another 741 in defensive and that's over a full mile in penalty yardage ....

A FULL MILE!

The same folks who are fed up with the play (and penalties) of the likes of Frank Walker are now all of a sudden screaming conspiracy because the refs might target us. You cant have it both ways.

[Everything_Ravens]

No. You're incorrectly stating that our players are "playing by the rules, week in and week out". And my posts have been pretty clear.

Refs will game plan just as teams do. If that's news to you, then either you're young or you simply do not understand the nuances of the NFL and it's officiating. Umpires have differing strike zones, Hoops refs have varying degrees of traveling, fouls, etc and football refs either call it hard or let the players play.

If you're a team that commits the quality and quantity of penalties we do, you're going to get the ticky-tack crap called against you in addition to the normal BS all teams see.

Besides a few cases, we ARE committing these penalties.

31 other teams not named Ravens have managed to do better than anyone else in terms of penalty yardage. Yes, we're dead last in the league.

We have given up almost 11 football fields worth of offensive penalties this season. Tack on another 741 in defensive and that's a full mile in penalty yardage ....

A FULL MILE!

The same folks who are fed up with the play (and penalties) of the likes of Frank Walker are now all of a sudden screaming conspiracy because the refs might target us. You cant have it both ways.

NO, i would agree that we have not played sound football! and my issue is more towards bogus calls that happen in pivotal points of a game, such as third down.

and as for the "nuances", i would love it if you could direct me to where it states that a game can be umpired on the merits of what a team has done in previous weeks as opposed to what they are actually looking at. God forbid a team attempts to get there stuff together from one week to the next, according to these "nuances".

[HoustonRaven]

NO, i would agree that we have not played sound football! and my issue is more towards bogus calls that happen in pivotal points of a game, such as third down

Ok, so what percentage of those 203 penalties fit that category in your eyes?

and as for the "nuances", i would love it if you could direct me to where it states that a game can be umpired on the merits of what a team has done in previous weeks as opposed to what they are actually looking at. God forbid a team attempts to get there stuff together from one week to the next, according to these "nuances".

Seriously? Really? Let me clue you in on something. Human beings have a natural bias.

Just as the Blue Jays were targeted for balks in the 90's, just as Bill Lambeer was called for everything and anything in the paint, the Ravens get called for the crap they are pulling this season.

Once the proverbial penalty tooth paste is out of the tube, it's damn near impossible to get it back in.

And the only way this changes if we, as you put it, play by the rules and play smart. Something this team cannot seem to do this season.

[Everything_Ravens]

Ok, so what percentage of those 203 penalties fit that category in your eyes?

if u look at my original post to this thread, you will notice that my issues with bad calls span across the league not just with teams named the Ravens. so while im impressed with your statistical research skills, im dealing with a wider culture of behavior

Seriously? Really? Let me clue you in on something. Human beings have a natural bias.

Just as the Blue Jays were targeted for balks in the 90's, just as Bill Lambeer was called for everything and anything in the paint, the Ravens get called for the crap they are pulling this season.

Once the proverbial penalty tooth paste is out of the tube, it's damn near impossible to get it back in.

And the only way this changes if we, as you put it, play by the rules and play smart. Something this team cannot seem to do this season.

Lol. Dude really ?? your gonna go "Human beings natural bias" on me??

im no psychiatrist, nor am i very well versed in my sociobehavioral studies, but i do know that most "Human Beings" dont get paid to officiate Football games.

[HoustonRaven]

im no psychiatrist, nor am i very well versed in my sociobehavioral studies, but i do know that most "Human Beings" dont get paid to officiate Football games.

point? or are you simply going to run this debate in circles?

Fine, throw out the bias. These guys still shoot the shit and when they do, they talk shop about the teams. That alone gets you a bad rap among the reffing crews.

[RustonRifle]

I haven't seen anything by the Ravens that tells me they are good enough to beat the Patriots. 1-5 against division winners? Please, even if the officials aren't generous with the calls you can count on a Raven miscue or stupid penalty usually at the worse possible time. This just isn't a smart football team.

Instead of finding a way to win close games this team finds a way to come up short.

No chance to be a factor in the playoffs, they aren't going to be facing the little sisters of the poor.

[Everything_Ravens]

point? or are you simply going to run this debate in circles?

Fine, throw out the bias. These guys still shoot the shit and when they do, they talk shop about the teams. That alone gets you a bad rap among the reffing crews.

that is me point lad! they need to be professionals!

its cool to be a responsible fan and encourage others to be accountable for our own mistakes, but a spade is a spade and some of the calls are bs.

[HoustonRaven]

that is me point lad! they need to be professionals!

its cool to be a responsible fan and encourage others to be accountable for our own mistakes, but a spade is a spade and some of the calls are bs.

Agree to disagree then

And I am way too shocked that I just saw Bret Hart in a WWE ring .... I just aged regressed 20 years .....

[Everything_Ravens]

Agree to disagree then

And I am way too shocked that I just saw Bret Hart in a WWE ring .... I just aged regressed 20 years .....

i agree with that