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  1. #1

    Who did Dan Dierdorf play for?



    Everyone,

    I posted this under the Colt's Heritage, but felt like more would see this over here.

    -------------------------

    To everyone on this board and readers of Colt's Heritage:

    I have a very serious question for you, "What team did Dan Dierdorf play for?"

    The reason for this question is simple, and I hope you understand why I'm asking.

    Dan Dierdorf was selected to and inducted in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He was drafted in 1971 to a team he played for his entire career. (If you don't know who he is, please use this link to find out. http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/me...p?player_id=56 ) You may know him now more for being a commentator than a football player, though.

    Now, for the answer: Dan Dierdorf was drafted by the St. Louis Cardinals. He played his entire career there and retired as a St. Louis Cardinal.

    Now, as you know, the Cardinals were not originally from St. Louis (they were from Chicago), and they are not playing there now. Of course, they are in Phoenix. If you were to visit the HOF now or go online, take a guess where Dan is listed? You guessed it, under the "Arizonia Cardinals..."

    Now, we are talking about a Hall of Fame player. He may not be on the same level as Johnny U, but again, he is a Hall of Famer.

    What makes Unitas, Donovan, Mackey or ANY of the Baltimore era Colts different than Dan Dierdorf??

    Teams move. It's part of the league. In fact, St. Louis has a new team called the Rams AND Superbowl trophey with their new team as well. St. Louis has gone through the SAME experiences as Baltimore, yet, you do not hear them pining for the Cards to return or for the history of the Cards to be returned.

    Please help me understand the difference between St. Louis and Baltimore. I am very serious about this. Please explain.




  2. #2

    Re: Who did Dan Dierdorf play for?

    Please help me understand the difference between St. Louis and Baltimore. I am very serious about this. Please explain.
    Dude this is a no brainer and Im not even from around these parts. Those who watched the colts were rapid fans. They loved football. You have a point but The thing that makes Dan Dierdoft different, I think its the fact that Johnny and the colts were like family to the citizens of Baltimore, they put Baltimore on the g-damn map. Plus the team was approachable to the average fan back in the day.


    You should see how many people touch that shoe before they enter the stadium, its not by accident that they do it. The colts mean alot to Baltimore.

    I'm from Brooklyn, NY and the situation is very similar with alot of the old timers with the Dodgers.
    WOW! I feel so fortunate that the Ravens did what they had to do to make this happen. Thank you. My Heart is with the Raven....My Heart is with Baltimore and its great fans. What can I say. Here We Go!!! --Ray Lewis
    No, Thank you Ray...
    _________________
    -->^78F$09U&67D!45A#54R87B)89V<--




  3. #3

    Wink Re: Who did Dan Dierdorf play for?

    Quote Originally Posted by sgtcolt View Post
    What makes Unitas, Donovan, Mackey or ANY of the Baltimore era Colts different than Dan Dierdorf??

    Teams move. It's part of the league. In fact, St. Louis has a new team called the Rams AND Superbowl trophey with their new team as well. St. Louis has gone through the SAME experiences as Baltimore, yet, you do not hear them pining for the Cards to return or for the history of the Cards to be returned.

    Please help me understand the difference between St. Louis and Baltimore. I am very serious about this. Please explain.
    I'll take you at your word that you are serious and not just trolling.

    The Baltimore Colts were the original America's Team, while the St. Louis Cardinals were an afterthought. Even in St. Louis. While Baltimore was experiencing a sellout streak unheard of outside of New York or Chicago, the Cardinals were playing in front of half filled stadiums. The Bidwells were (and still are) terrible owners and managers, while we had Rosenbloom, Weebank, and Shula. We had the Colt Corrals, while in St. Louis the fans looked forward to the next baseball season. Not knocking the fans or city of St. Louis, but their support of the Cards was nothing akin to the love affir which we had with our Colts.

    btw: outside of the differences, here's a glaring similarity: just like Unitas and the Colts are adorned on our stadium's facade but nowhere in the Hoosier Dome (except in Jimmy Irsay's memories), Dierdorf's name is on the Raymond James Stadium's RingOfFame, but not in Phoenix.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  4. #4
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    Re: Who did Dan Dierdorf play for?

    Sarge has a valid point but the flaw is still there. He is listed under Arizona Cardinals and he shouldn't be. At the very least, there ought to be an asterisk.
    ENFORCE THE 1ST AMENDMENT WITH THE SECOND, NEVER DISARM




  5. #5

    Re: Who did Dan Dierdorf play for?

    T,

    I appreciate the note on the Ring of Honor. I don't agree with it, but do appreciate you pointing it out. That was something I did not know.

    Everyone else,

    So far, the responses are based on the 'emotional' tie that the Colts have to the Baltimore area and the lack of such for the Cards in the St. Louis area. But emotions cannot be the whole reason.

    A team's history is just that history-no matter what city, stadium, or uniform they play.

    I believe the Cards, just like the Colts, should be listed as the CARDINALS in the Hall of Fame with the appropriate history under each--being sure to acknowledge that Dan Dierdorf played for the "St. Louis" Cardinals. But the name at the top of the display is CARDINALS.




  6. #6
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    Re: Who did Dan Dierdorf play for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    I'll take you at your word that you are serious and not just trolling.

    The Baltimore Colts were the original America's Team, while the St. Louis Cardinals were an afterthought. Even in St. Louis. While Baltimore was experiencing a sellout streak unheard of outside of New York or Chicago, the Cardinals were playing in front of half filled stadiums. The Bidwells were (and still are) terrible owners and managers, while we had Rosenbloom, Weebank, and Shula. We had the Colt Corrals, while in St. Louis the fans looked forward to the next baseball season. Not knocking the fans or city of St. Louis, but their support of the Cards was nothing akin to the love affir which we had with our Colts.

    btw: outside of the differences, here's a glaring similarity: just like Unitas and the Colts are adorned on our stadium's facade but nowhere in the Hoosier Dome (except in Jimmy Irsay's memories), Dierdorf's name is on the Raymond James Stadium's RingOfFame, but not in Phoenix.

    Don't you mean the Edward Jones Dome, vice Raymond James....which is in Tampa?

    The answer I can give is this: None of those other cities that have had teams move, be it Houston, Cleveland(the Rams), St. Louis, LA, gave a shit enough to care about what is right. Hell, when they had some sort of Save the Oilers thing in Houston, only about 1000 people showed up.

    The 58 Colts put the NFL on the map, not just Baltimore. Prior to that sudden death OT championship game, the NFL was probably 3rd or fourth as far as popularity was concerned, behind baseball, boxing and ice hockey.
    we aren't just loyal, we are obsessed. and we are violently so. we are baltimore, and we are the epitome of dysfunctionality.





  7. #7

    Re: Who did Dan Dierdorf play for?

    Quote Originally Posted by crowdog89 View Post
    Don't you mean the Edward Jones Dome, vice Raymond James....which is in Tampa?
    Yes ... maybe I should have waited before opening that bottle of Smythick's before posting.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  8. #8
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    Re: Who did Dan Dierdorf play for?

    Conceptually there's no difference and while Dierdorf's slight is arguably less relevant, it is a slight to a Hall of Famer nonetheless who still resides in the city that was abandoned... St. Louis.

    The crusade here T is that the Colts are a larger part of the fabric of the NFL's heritage and they are a bigger part of Baltimore's heritage than St. Louis'.

    Not that it will be easy...it won't...but the argument for the Colts is stronger, particularly how the '58 championship changed the game. Changing things for the Colts could pave the way to changing things for St. Louis and for Houston. Should Earl Campbell, the Tyler Rose, be presented with the Tennessee Titans?

    I would argue that current NFL cities should be represented accurately. If the Ravens hadn't changed their name, should Otto Graham and Jim Brown be presented as Baltimore Browns? Of course not... Their legacies belong in Cleveland just as the Colts belong to Baltimore.




  9. #9

    Re: Who did Dan Dierdorf play for?

    I would argue that current NFL cities should be represented accurately. If the Ravens hadn't changed their name, should Otto Graham and Jim Brown be presented as Baltimore Browns? Of course not... Their legacies belong in Cleveland just as the Colts belong to Baltimore.
    It seems logical to me to identify the players that played in Baltimore in the HOF and not with indy. For example I see no reason why they cant say Johnny Unitas played with the Baltimore Colts for X number of years, and then stating somewhere that the Colts Moved to Indy in 84. You know some kind of disclaimer. It seems simple enough but we all know better. I wish there was a better way to voice our opinions rather than in an online petition.
    WOW! I feel so fortunate that the Ravens did what they had to do to make this happen. Thank you. My Heart is with the Raven....My Heart is with Baltimore and its great fans. What can I say. Here We Go!!! --Ray Lewis
    No, Thank you Ray...
    _________________
    -->^78F$09U&67D!45A#54R87B)89V<--




  10. #10

    Re: Who did Dan Dierdorf play for?

    Quote Originally Posted by sgtcolt View Post
    I believe the Cards, just like the Colts, should be listed as the CARDINALS in the Hall of Fame with the appropriate history under each--being sure to acknowledge that Dan Dierdorf played for the "St. Louis" Cardinals. But the name at the top of the display is CARDINALS.
    You're not the first to come here and make this argument, and there is a certain logic to it.

    The problem you will find is you are taking as a premise that sports teams are not connected to their cities.

    Mista T and the others here disagree with you taking that as a premise, as do I.

    There is a deep football heritage here, and a deep baseball heritage. Both are cherished, and fans *and* athletes from the old days are, or were until they passed, big parts of the community *here*. In Baltimore. So it comes across as kind of cheap for you to take as a premise that that very heritage is a figment of our imaginations.

    No offense, and I am always glad to see posts from fans of other teams on this board.

    :toast:
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  11. #11
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    Re: Who did Dan Dierdorf play for?

    Please help me understand the difference between St. Louis and Baltimore. I am very serious about this. Please explain.
    There is none, Deirdorf should be in a section dedicated to St. Louis football teams as a Cardinal. The 8 HOF Baltimore Colts should be in the Baltimore section as Colts.

    Each NFL city, current and former, should have its own section. Each team that played in that city would then have the appropriate stuff in that city's section. Thus the Colts would have championships noted 4 times in the Baltimore section and once in the Indy. It solves every one of these issues.




  12. #12

    Re: Who did Dan Dierdorf play for?

    Everyone,

    Thank you for your civil discourse on this subject. I must admit that I do not agree with your logic, but appreciate your candor.

    As most of us have admitted, this subject is not going to be solved on an online forum or petition, but it is a good discussion to have none-the-less.

    I do, however, want to stress one point.

    A team is not tied to a region, city, or individuals. A team is just that, "a team." Whether it stays in one city or not. The history that goes with that team should be kept under the umbrella of that team's name. As such, I believe the Hall of Fame, the NFL, and the fans should simply refer to the team by it's name.

    The Colts had an illustrious history in Baltimore, period. No arguments. The Cardinals had a lack-luster history in St. Louis. Either way, both teams should simply be remembered and spoke of as the Colts and the Cardinals.

    The Ravens, the Texans, the Titans, just to name a few, have more complicated histories. But they are histories none-the-less.

    Earl Campbell, to point to example listed above, should be listed in the HOF under the team of Oilers. That team does not exist anymore, but that is the team he played for. He should not be under the Texans, nor should he be under the Titans. It should be noted that the Oilers no longer exist, but that does not stop the fact that there was a team with that name or a running back that played for them.

    Ray Lewis, when he goes in (and yes, he should go in), needs to be listed as a Raven. He should not be listed under a city title of Baltimore. He did not play the for the Colts, just as much and Johnny U did not play for Indy. Now, if the city of Baltimore wants to honor both Johnny U and Ray Lewis in the same building or display, that is their choice, but Canton is the "Professional Football" Hall of Fame. Meaning, it represents every team--to include AFL, WFL, USFL, etc--teams. It does not represent cities, it represents the teams and history of professional football.

    Final point. History is "his-story." (His being the team.)

    Thank you for your time.




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