KC Joyner: Flacco is as good as Rivers

**baltimore_hokie** · 06-17-2011, 06:03 AM

After catching some criticism from Woodley and Dhani Jones, SOMEBODY has some trust in Flacco...

Flacco was able to do more than just work around these limitations. He actually excelled with this trio, evidenced by 1,472 yards on the 133 vertical targets aimed at these three.

That equates to an 11.1 vertical YPA overall, but what is more impressive is that each of the three ended up posting a double-digit vertical YPA mark (11.3 for Boldin, 11.9 for Houshmandzadeh, 10.4 for Mason). To put that into perspective, consider that only five other teams ended up with three qualifying pass-catchers in double digits in vertical YPA (47 total targets needed to qualify).

Flacco was faced with a somewhat different situation in that his wideouts and tight ends were healthy, but they all had vertical receiving limitations.

This clearly shows Flacco took a huge step forward last season, but he has yet to get full credit for it, in large part because people still focus too much on his superb game-management skills. His reputation in that area precedes him, but it shouldn't prevent Flacco from getting credit as an elite quarterback for showcasing a Rivers-like ability to jerry-rig an elite downfield passing game.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insid..._kc&id=6667673

**RavensNTerps** · 06-17-2011, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by baltimore_hokie

After catching some criticism from Woodley and Dhani Jones, SOMEBODY has some trust in Flacco...

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insid..._kc&id=6667673

I mean...mason, boldin, and houshmandzadeh is one of the best WR tandems on paper. "vertical threat" is overrated IMO.

**psuasskicker** · 06-17-2011, 07:01 AM

Mason, Boldin and Housh are also short-yardage specialists trying to be forced into a down-field passing system.

- C -

**Rayvens52** · 06-17-2011, 07:02 AM

While I don't think Flacco is as good as Rivers yet, I think he has the tools to get there. While I also agree the deep ball is not everything, it is pretty impressive to get those numbers out of 3 possession receivers, and I think the article said only 5 other teams in the NFL had 3 receivers or more with double digit YPA.

**Jeremiah W** · 06-17-2011, 07:15 AM

Flacco's 3rd season was better than Rivers 3rd or 4th season. He is obviously not as good as Rivers is now, but Flacco is progressing as well as any other great QB has, including most of them that finished as HOF players.

**RavensNTerps** · 06-17-2011, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

Mason, Boldin and Housh are also short-yardage specialists trying to be forced into a down-field passing system.

- C -

Agreed. But also think its the system that forced that high YPA number as much as Flacco.

**410birds** · 06-18-2011, 08:02 AM

I personally could care less if he is as good as anybody . As long as he gets us a super bowl title . Thats when he can look back at everyone one and tell them to go to hell and that he is the best that year.

**Dragz** · 06-18-2011, 08:12 PM

Flacco is not as good as Rivers, period.

**Jeremiah W** · 06-18-2011, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Dragz

Flacco is not as good as Rivers, period.

Yes he is. Better through his first 3 years without question and already has more playoff wins.

**psuasskicker** · 06-18-2011, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Dragz

Flacco is not as good as Rivers, period.

That's like saying Aaron Rodgers isn't as good as Dan Marino. Maybe not, but some day it's certainly possible he will be.

Flacco's career thus far:
878/1,416 (62.0%) 10,206 yards, 60 TDs, 34 INTs, 7.2 YPA

Rivers through his first three years as a starter:
873/1,398 (62.4%) 10,549 yards, 77 TDs, 35 INTs, 7.5 YPA

Pretty damned similar. And while you might say "Yeah, Rivers is clearly better," you have to remember that Rivers' first three years as a starter were his years 3-5, while Flacco's were years 1-3. The rookie ramp-up scale is pretty significant, and anyone that starts years 1-3 should expect that their stats would likely be worse than a starter of equal abilities who's first three years were 3-5.

Flacco today vs. Rivers today, yes, Rivers is clearly better. But Flacco today vs. Rivers at the same point in his career? They seem to be on pretty damned similar arcs.

- C -

**bmorebirds_24** · 06-18-2011, 09:38 PM

Flacco is not the cry baby Rivers is. Granted Flacco is yapping a little this offseason about losing a coach and contract extension but I'm not mad at him for that. You watch Rivers and he always has a frown on his face and bitching about something. He showed a lot of heart a few years ago in the playoffs and I respect him for that. Does Rivers put up the more flashy numbers? Yes! But I think, and It's purely a guess, but I think if Cameron and Harbs take the training wheels off a bit, Flacco will post some sexy numbers.

Personally I want the Super Bowl again! Then Rivers, Brady Big Ben and that mouthy Bitch Woodley can all kiss his ass.

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**purplepoe** · 06-18-2011, 10:25 PM

If AJ Smith called up Ozzie and offered Rivers for Flacco, what would you say?

PP

**TLaMana** · 06-19-2011, 12:56 AM

Rivers for Flacco?

No thanks.

Rivers for backup?

Sure.

**darb72** · 06-19-2011, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by purplepoe

If AJ Smith called up Ozzie and offered Rivers for Flacco, what would you say?

PP

I'd say no thanks. I know to many people who played with and against Rivers in High School to want him on the Ravens. The guy is a giant dickhead.

Also, Rivers can't win a play-off game.

**psuasskicker** · 06-19-2011, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by purplepoe

If AJ Smith called up Ozzie and offered Rivers for Flacco, what would you say?

PP

It's more complicated than that. The difference here is that we know Rivers turns from very good 3rd year starter to terrific QB. We don't know for a fact that Flacco will actually do that. That of course makes Rivers now vs. Flacco now a better option at QB.

But it's faulty to say Rivers now is better than Flacco now, hence Flacco will never be as good a QB as Rivers.

- C -

**Dragz** · 06-20-2011, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

That's like saying Aaron Rodgers isn't as good as Dan Marino. Maybe not, but some day it's certainly possible he will be.

- C -

One day, Flacco MIGHT be better than Rivers. All I'm saying is that day, is not today. I'm not saying Joe isn't good, he's quite good but not as good as Rivers. I don't know why it's taken that Joe not being THAT good is a discouraging remark about our franchise QB. He has growing to do and I believe that he'll make more positive strides this year.

**wickedsolo** · 06-20-2011, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

That's like saying Aaron Rodgers isn't as good as Dan Marino. Maybe not, but some day it's certainly possible he will be.

Flacco's career thus far:
878/1,416 (62.0%) 10,206 yards, 60 TDs, 34 INTs, 7.2 YPA

Rivers through his first three years as a starter:
873/1,398 (62.4%) 10,549 yards, 77 TDs, 35 INTs, 7.5 YPA

Pretty damned similar. And while you might say "Yeah, Rivers is clearly better," you have to remember that Rivers' first three years as a starter were his years 3-5, while Flacco's were years 1-3. The rookie ramp-up scale is pretty significant, and anyone that starts years 1-3 should expect that their stats would likely be worse than a starter of equal abilities who's first three years were 3-5.

Flacco today vs. Rivers today, yes, Rivers is clearly better. But Flacco today vs. Rivers at the same point in his career? They seem to be on pretty damned similar arcs.

- C -

Great points.

I don't think that anyone here would legitimately contend that Flacco is as good as Rivers is right now, but there is a lot of reason to think that Flacco is developing into one of the better QB's in the league. I think that he's in the top 10 in the league for sure, but to claim he's on par with Rivers at this moment is to say that Flacco is better than guys like Rodgers and Roethlisberger and I don't know that I could honestly say that because I think Rivers is in the top 4 behind Peyton, Brady, and Brees.

Rivers had scrubs last year and still had a tremendous season.