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  1. #73

    Re: If Gaither showed up to practice...



    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I don't disagree at all, I just don't care since he' was the best LT on the team by a fair margin, and not treated as such.
    And if he was, he would be out there on the field wearing a Ravens jersey.

    So to insinuate everyone from the OL coach to Harbaugh to Ozzie has been the LEAST bit unfair to Gaither is a massive stretch at best, laughable at worst.

    And if he some how resurrects his career and image as a lazy undisciplined player in KC, then more power to him. But that wasn't happening to anyone's eyes that makes decisions for the Ravens.




  2. #74
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    Re: If Gaither showed up to practice...

    Quote Originally Posted by houstonravensfan View Post
    We waste too many 2nd and 3rd round choices on projects. I have often thought of those two rounds as Ozzie's ego rounds, when he rolls the dice because he has TOO much confidence in his ability.

    IMHO we should expect a 2nd rounder to be a solid starter, and a 3rd rounder should make a contribution as a solid backup or ST'er. Too many of the players we've taken in those two rounds have done too little (or nothing) to justify the pick. Oz, gamble with rounds 6 and 7; go for solid projects in 4th and 5th. Take blue chips in the first three rounds.
    That doesn't sound too far off from the way they look at the draft. If I recall correctly they don't slot by rounds, but by levels. The levels are something like:
    Sure pro bowler
    Starter for a number of years
    Potential to start within a year or two
    Developmental player
    Special teams role player

    Something like that.

    I think where they got into trouble was pushing some players higher based on some tantlizing trait they measured.

    I will say that I've detected a slight change in philosophy since 2007. I think they've taken more solid, less boom-bust second and third rounders in the last four drafts (Rice, Kruger, Cody, Torrey Smith). These players strike me as more productive in college and less of a shot in the dark. Maybe not first year starters, but ready to start in year two or so. Kruger, as I said, is different, but only because I think they mis-identified him as a pure hands-in-the-dirt DE who they needed to bulk up.

    I wouldn't necessarily call it ego. I think I would say that Ozzie is trying to define value, and they got into the habit of putting value on traits that are not very projectable (size, speed, mainly).

    So while it looks to us like they are being cute, I think it's simply the tendency to find hidden value. It's easy to define value in the first round. Harder in the second and third. What you call "bluechip" players are usually gone by then, so you're forced to find a starter when few are there.

    The other factor I see is that it becomes easier to find value in the later rounds. That's where you have the luxury of patience because the player doesn't have to be a starter right away. A player like JJ can develop. You also have a lot of special teams players who can add value in other ways than starting. A player like Nakamura can be pegged as a special teams contributor, and can stick around for three or four years and maybe be Ed Reed's replacement some day.

    You can't do that with offensive linemen. So a player like David Hale has no value unless you can develop him quickly.
    Last edited by Shas; 08-16-2011 at 04:13 PM.




  3. Re: If Gaither showed up to practice...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Who here "hates" Gaither?!?!

    Or is this one of those times if you criticize someone, you're labeled a hater?
    I love Gaither...I even have his authentic jersey! I feel sorry for him...I am thinking about changing the name on the back, but I'll wait until we pick up someone worthy of that #71




  4. #76

    Re: If Gaither showed up to practice...

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    And if he was, he would be out there on the field wearing a Ravens jersey.

    So to insinuate everyone from the OL coach to Harbaugh to Ozzie has been the LEAST bit unfair to Gaither is a massive stretch at best, laughable at worst.

    And if he some how resurrects his career and image as a lazy undisciplined player in KC, then more power to him. But that wasn't happening to anyone's eyes that makes decisions for the Ravens.
    Eh.

    I told you this would happen.

    Just because Gaither had to wait forever to get some crappy one year deal from a non-contender, and he shows up looking like his water is about to break, doesn't mean some people won't continue to point the finger at the Ravens.

    And he still hasn't stepped onto the field for a regular season game, and I'm still not confident he will.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  5. #77

    Re: If Gaither showed up to practice...

    I really, really like being right.
    Last edited by psuasskicker; 08-16-2011 at 09:44 PM.
    ---------------------------------------------------

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    A blog about any and everything football.

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  6. #78

    Re: If Gaither showed up to practice...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I don't disagree at all, I just don't care since he' was the best LT on the team by a fair margin, and not treated as such.
    KC and the rest of the free agent market certainly seem to agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I don't know how a Ravens can be disappointed by what this guy did on sundays.
    You mean the part where he sat on the bench? Or at home on his couch? Cause he did a lot of that on Sundays.

    I remember back when you were up in arms about getting as little as pick #36 overall for Gaither and you wouldn't trade Okung for Gaither straight up. You had at least one post saying you thought he'd be getting $8MM per year. I thought you'd believed he would be making $10MM/year cause I believe I countered saying I would be surprised if he got offered more than $7MM per, but I just spent about 20-30 minutes looking for that and couldn't find it so I won't swear to it.

    But seriously, how is this even a discussion anymore? Gaither got booted out of Oakland's front door, and signed a one year deal for something damned close to vet min. The article I linked above puts it nicely...this is a low risk, high reward play for the Chiefs. But the fact that he got a good bit less than a million bucks indicates just how low the likelihood is that the Chiefs believe it will work out that way.

    Then, Gaither walks onto the field with a beer gut that would put a week 39 pregnant-with-twins mother to shame, and you think Ravens fans have some sort of vendetta against him?

    Pioli put the argument that Gaither's a top ten tackle to bed the minute he inked Gaither to a deal equivalent to what Yanda will make before the start of the fourth quarter of the Titans game.

    - C -
    ---------------------------------------------------

    www.oblongspheroid.com

    A blog about any and everything football.

    Twitter: oblong_spheroid




  7. #79
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    Re: If Gaither showed up to practice...

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    KC and the rest of the free agent market certainly seem to agree.



    You mean the part where he sat on the bench? Or at home on his couch? Cause he did a lot of that on Sundays.

    I remember back when you were up in arms about getting as little as pick #36 overall for Gaither and you wouldn't trade Okung for Gaither straight up. You had at least one post saying you thought he'd be getting $8MM per year. I thought you'd believed he would be making $10MM/year cause I believe I countered saying I would be surprised if he got offered more than $7MM per, but I just spent about 20-30 minutes looking for that and couldn't find it so I won't swear to it.

    But seriously, how is this even a discussion anymore? Gaither got booted out of Oakland's front door, and signed a one year deal for something damned close to vet min. The article I linked above puts it nicely...this is a low risk, high reward play for the Chiefs. But the fact that he got a good bit less than a million bucks indicates just how low the likelihood is that the Chiefs believe it will work out that way.

    Then, Gaither walks onto the field with a beer gut that would put a week 39 pregnant-with-twins mother to shame, and you think Ravens fans have some sort of vendetta against him?

    Pioli put the argument that Gaither's a top ten tackle to bed the minute he inked Gaither to a deal equivalent to what Yanda will make before the start of the fourth quarter of the Titans game.

    - C -
    This doesn't make sense especially for Pioli who was Ozzie's assist before
    Dee. He knows why Ravens were discouraged with him so why would he sign
    him even at the min rate after OAK kicked him out too and then he shows up
    on the field looking like that.

    Two years ago we had a great o-line with Gaither at LT and Oher at RT where
    he still belongs. The average sacks given up that year for LTs were 6 and
    Gaither had 3. One writer called him the best LT in the game.

    But after last year and showing up like that in KC Gaither won't even be able
    to play.


    WE GOT OUR BOOKENDS - ERIC DECOSTA DURING THE OHER DRAFT




  8. #80
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    Re: If Gaither showed up to practice...

    Well, maybe next year we can draft a true left tackle and then we will indeed have our "bookends". And then I would do this:

    And then we can start up Crazy Edgar's Right Tackle Sale in the offseason. Our mistake is your gain! We've got too much right tackle in our inventory so we're pricing it to move! We've got Reid! We've got Harewood! We've got Cousins at prices that are in-SAAANE! (Small print: The Michael Oher floor model is for display and 2012 RT-starter purposes only and is not for sale).

    We got a short burst of quality LT play out of Gaither and it gave us a taste of what that's like. I sincerely hope that Oher can develop into a good left tackle but I have serious doubts. I wish we could find a real LT so Oher could move back to where he kicks ass: RT. Then let Reid be a backup (probably a good one, maybe even starter-quality). Well, it's nice to dream.

    For now the Ravens staff is squeezing the Oher square peg into the left-tackle round hole. It's stubborn and I fear it won't work, but they don't really have much alternative at the moment. Maybe Shas is right and we should try Yanda at LT.




  9. #81
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    Re: If Gaither showed up to practice...

    Quote Originally Posted by Teavo View Post
    Maybe Shas is right and we should try Yanda at LT.
    For the record, that wasn't me who said it. (Maybe someone hacked my Twitter).

    I'm willing to give Oher another year to settle in and see what happens at left tackle.

    Here's my bet: Oher stays at left tackle, Yanda at right guard, and they sign a veteran to play right tackle. (if Cousins fails to show much at right guard they may cut him and sign a second veteran to play behind Yanda -- and perhaps start the season at center).

    I think Ozzie is just waiting another couple weeks for roster cut downs and he'll pounce on a veteran or two.




  10. #82
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    Re: If Gaither showed up to practice...

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    There's a reason he got a 1-year, $685K deal instead of the multi-million dollar deal you expected him to get..
    I saw the deal was only $685K. And to think we valued him as a second round pick.

    I thought the veteran minimum was now $910K. Doesn't he qualify for the veteran min.?




  11. #83

    Re: If Gaither showed up to practice...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    I saw the deal was only $685K. And to think we valued him as a second round pick.

    I thought the veteran minimum was now $910K. Doesn't he qualify for the veteran min.?
    The minimum is based on service time:

    Years Minimum
    0 375K
    1 450K
    2 525K
    3 600K
    4-6 685K
    7-9 810K
    10+ 910K
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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  12. #84
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    Re: If Gaither showed up to practice...

    Thanks, Ravor! I hadn't known the vet minimum scale.




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