If Gaither showed up to practice...

**Shas** · 08-19-2011, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Beau Petard

No problem. If you ever have occasion to drive down that way, there are a couple of little "gas&go's" on Rt. 29 just north of Chatham that have about the best gasoline prices in the whole travel corridor from Baltimore down into N.C.

I used to have to go to Roanoke a lot and I do recall the gas prices being cheaper than home.

Hey, while we're on the subject of spoiled brats (Gaither, Not Petard Jr. I'm sure he's an upstanding citizen).

Did everyone see the story on Jonathan Baldwin?

Recall he was that prototype, tall, speedy deep threat that many hoped the Ravens would get in the first round of the draft instead of Torrey Smith. The Chiefs traded up ahead of the Ravens to nab Baldwin at pick 26, leaving Jimmy Smith for the Ravens at 27. I was thrilled, but many were furious that we missed on Baldwin.

Well, he won't be in uniform tonight for the Chiefs. Apparently he has proven to be the complete punk-diva that some people warned us about. He punched-out a teammate and broke his wrist. Out for two months. And he has also pissed off the coaching staff already because he won't listen. So the Chiefs have Gaither and Baldwin in the playpen together.

I would like the Chiefs to do well, but Frankly, I think Haley is an asshole, so part of me is happy that he's got these fools to work with. Remember it was Haley who pissed off Anquan Boldin in Arizona and the media ended up calling Boldin a spoiled brat. I always felt it was Haley who deserved the criticism. Haley is that nine-year old pitcher who gives up six runs in an inning and then throws his glove on the mound when the coach comes to take him out.

**jonboy79** · 08-19-2011, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Shas

Okay, that's a different argument and one that I can listen to. Perhaps they should have seen the writing on the wall with Gaither and never banked on him being reliable.

In which case, it has nothing to do with Oher. Oher is the "other tackle" in this equation, and what you are saying is in addition to Oher, they should have had a better alternative to Gaither and been ready for the inevitable flame out. There is some truth to that perhaps.

They may have put too much hope in taming Gaither and too much hope in developing Cousins.

In the end, two weeks from now, I think they'll have a free agent who will step in as the alternative to Gaither...and then even this argument should be moot.

It is the basis for my argument that Oz felt that Oher/Cousins WAS a suitable replacement, which we all know to be false now. So, yes, to me, cornered and in no position to rock the boat on gaither, I think it was a poor decision to do so. I think it was an organizational screwup to not have a backup in place, and then after that was not possible, it was a coaching error in attempting to motivate a guy in a way that has proven in the past not to work. The team shot itself int he foot by not having adequate depth, and then pissing off it's best tackle.

If we had another, legit LT in here, Gaither would be a distant memory, but now we have a sub-par LT (with absolutely 0 backup) and a nightmare situation on the right side. Yanda is average to above on the outside ont he right, but he leaves a gaping hole at RG where he is one of the best in the game. Oher is below adequate on the left, leaving a gaping hole at RT.

And to pre-empt the others, Gaither as a fifth round pick was low risk, high reward. KC's move is the same. Had we signed Gaither to the big deal that Drew, himself, myself and others deserved it would have been a high-risk, high reward move. There are differences in the moves that I do see.

**Shas** · 08-19-2011, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

I think it was an organizational screwup to not have a backup in place, and then after that was not possible, it was a coaching error in attempting to motivate a guy in a way that has proven in the past not to work. The team shot itself int he foot by not having adequate depth, and then pissing off it's best tackle.

Totally agree with the first part and disagree with the second.

And to pre-empt the others, Gaither as a fifth round pick was low risk, high reward. KC's move is the same. Had we signed Gaither to the big deal that Drew, himself, myself and others deserved it would have been a high-risk, high reward move. There are differences in the moves that I do see.

When the Ravens drafted Gaither, he was a developmental back up, which is essentially what the Chiefs called him--a back up to Brandon Albert. That much is the same. The rea difference is when you look at last season, when the Ravens were dependent on him to be a starter, whether it was going to be the left or right side. That changes it from a low-risk/high-reward scenario, to a high-risk/high-reward scenario.

They had already questioned his work ethic, and suggested the lack of effort had led to health vulnerability. And yet, they were caught with their pants down when he tanked on them. Perfectly reasonable to criticize them on that count. As for them being the cause of his unavailability due to mishandling him -- bullshit.

**B-more Ravor** · 08-19-2011, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

ok bury your head in the sand and pretend they are not connected, but they are 100% intertwined. You wouldn't read my complaints nearly as much if the line play did not drop precipitously upon Gaither leaving the lineup.

Dude, if anyone is in denial, it's you and your continued insistency that the decision had anything to do with Oher. Oher did provide them with an alternative, but only if Gaither failed to do what they expected and hoped of him. Had Gaither done what he, HIMSELF, acknowledged he needed to do, none of this would have ever been an issue.

But, he couldn't and didn't, and he proved to them that he was exactly what they had learned he was and that he wasn't going to change.

Sorry, but that's on him, and him only.

**StingerNLG** · 08-19-2011, 04:02 PM

Wait, so now Michael Oher is a bust?

Because if we are saying Oher isn't a suitable replacement for Gaither, considering again the FACT that Oher was a left tackle in college (which is still being ignored here), then as a first round pick taking over for a supplemental development pick, we are basically saying he is a bust.

Is that where we are?

**purplepoe** · 08-19-2011, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

Gaither's hissy fit began the first day of minicamp when Harbs played Oher 100% Lt and Gaither 100% RT. That night Harbs commented the move was "potentially permanent" and the very next day, just a couple of snaps in, Gaither hurts his foot. He then lost 20 pounds came to camp and hurt his back almost immediately.

So in short, I blame the precipitous drop of our Oline play on that decision and the manner in which his coach handled it with the media, which led to Gaither being an immature, lazy POS.

It's easy to lay all of the blame on Gaither for not being a fighter, and I see that point. I simply am one of very few that spreads some blame to the coaching staff for making a decision in their minds during the offseason instead of on the field in camp. I also, personally see plenty of fault in their evaluation regarding those two players. Trust me, I understand Gaither gets the lions share of the blame, but that doesn't excuse the way that the castle handled the whole scenario.

Oher could turn around and perhaps be an average LT, but I don;t see it happenning. He should be a probowl RT instead. Like he was, before they messed with all of this.

IF is the biggest word in the english language, but I feel that IF that fateful day never happenned in mini-camps(with the presser later) then we would likely have had a healhty motivated Gaither last year, and he would likely be re-signed here again.

It's easy to lay the blame at Gaither's feet because that's where it belongs.

It's really quite that simple.

You are SEVERELY underestimating just how poor his work ethic and attitude were and most likely continue to be.

PP

**goodandfast** · 08-19-2011, 04:50 PM

I can't believe anyone is talking about this anymore. The dude hasn't been a factor here for over 24 months. Get over it.

**Ravenswintitle** · 08-19-2011, 05:05 PM

wish him well, time to move on

**jonboy79** · 08-19-2011, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

Wait, so now Michael Oher is a bust?

Because if we are saying Oher isn't a suitable replacement for Gaither, considering again the FACT that Oher was a left tackle in college (which is still being ignored here), then as a first round pick taking over for a supplemental development pick, we are basically saying he is a bust.

Is that where we are?

I don't care where he played in college. In the pro's he's much more suited for RT, going against the strong side ends instead of the smaller faster guys.

I would not lump him in with Jamarcus Russell, no. Bust is too strong for a very good-great RT, late int he first round. I would say he failed to live up to expectations if he was drafted to be a franchise LT. The bust word would come into the equation had he been a top 5 pick like Gallery.

I believe it was Pat Kirwan, commenting after Oher's great season at RT in 09, that if the draft were done over, he would have gone number one overall. After a season at LT, if the draft were done all over, I think he would be selected around where he was. I would think that Vollmer at least would get selected ahead of him at OT, in what has turned out to be a weak class of tackles.

**Shas** · 08-19-2011, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Shas

I think Haley is an asshole, so part of me is happy that he's got these fools to work with. Remember it was Haley who pissed off Anquan Boldin in Arizona and the media ended up calling Boldin a spoiled brat. I always felt it was Haley who deserved the criticism. Haley is that nine-year old pitcher who gives up six runs in an inning and then throws his glove on the mound when the coach comes to take him out.

Anyone catch Haley at the end of the Ravens game? See what I mean now? Crying over the Ravens trying to get extra work for their fourth string players because he doesn't like losing. He's a dick.

**MachineJerk** · 08-19-2011, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Shas

Anyone catch Haley at the end of the Ravens game? See what I mean now? Crying over the Ravens trying to get extra work for their fourth string players because he doesn't like losing. He's a dick.

lol.

yes, yes he is.